MT complaining about protection being squishy

[Ifeanychukwu]

So my GM has played a protection paladin since the early days of Wrath, and he's a damn good tank. Right now though he's complaining about being too squishy even in heroics. He's refusing to even step foot into mythics because he's afraid he's just going to get smashed. I have no doubts in his ability but I prefer to only run mythics when he's tanking so this is sort of impeding my progression so I'd like some advice from other protection paladins.

Is it possible that there's something he's missing? I had been playing boomkin and discovered that unless you're using certain talents/traits in your artifact you're going to do some pretty mediocre damage, could this be this case for him? I know it's not that he's not playing well because usually he's a bore to heal TBH because of how little damage he takes. This is the start of an expansion though, there's lots of big changes and that times time getting used to. He's especially reluctant to change so it could be he just hasn't gotten the hang of some of the changes.

If anyone has any pointers or suggestions I could pass along to him I would REALLY appreciate it because I'd love to get into mythics but don't want to without my favorite tank buddy

[Tanthoris]

Prot paladins and Brm monks have this weird new class fantasy where they don't sit at capped hp very often. Prot palys tend to dip low then heal back up with their self heal. It's weird and takes getting used to, and compared to say Prot warriors who are monsters paladins take a while to get used to. At least that was/is my experience for my paladin.

[Deleted]

Prot paladins are the kings of activated CD mitigation. And yes, they are the most squishy tank atm. And no, he won't get smashed in mythics, just pull 1 pack a time until he feels comfortable to chainpull (even if low iLvl).

[Ifeanychukwu]

Prot paladins and Brm monks have this weird new class fantasy where they don't sit at capped hp very often. Prot palys tend to dip low then heal back up with their self heal. It's weird and takes getting used to, and compared to say Prot warriors who are monsters paladins take a while to get used to. At least that was/is my experience for my paladin.

I see, that's kind of shitty. I know I wouldn't personally want to play a tank that dips in HP all the time but I suppose it'll get better with gear. I think a lot of the problem is the random healers he's been grouping with in heroics. With so many mechanics that just wreck the health of DPS it makes it hard for some healers to keep both the group and the tank up at the same time so he's getting a bad taste of what runs can potentially be like. I keep trying to convince him that he'll be alright with guildies but I think he's been having so many bad experiences with randoms in heroics that he's just reluctant to do anything right now.

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Prot paladins are the kings of activated CD mitigation. And yes, they are the most squishy tank atm. And no, he won't get smashed in mythics, just pull 1 pack a time until he feels comfortable to chainpull (even if low iLvl).

Thanks for the input. One of the complaints he had was that it's not fun to have to pop all your cool downs on trash just to stay alive, then you pull a boss and it's just a snoozefest half of the time. He deals CRAZY damage though. Could it be that he's talented to deal damage or is that part of the protection package as well?

[Shelly]

I see, that's kind of shitty. I know I wouldn't personally want to play a tank that dips in HP all the time but I suppose it'll get better with gear. I think a lot of the problem is the random healers he's been grouping with in heroics. With so many mechanics that just wreck the health of DPS it makes it hard for some healers to keep both the group and the tank up at the same time so he's getting a bad taste of what runs can potentially be like. I keep trying to convince him that he'll be alright with guildies but I think he's been having so many bad experiences with randoms in heroics that he's just reluctant to do anything right now.

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Thanks for the input. One of the complaints he had was that it's not fun to have to pop all your cool downs on trash just to stay alive, then you pull a boss and it's just a snoozefest half of the time. He deals CRAZY damage though. Could it be that he's talented to deal damage or is that part of the protection package as well?

Without an armory link no one will know what spec he is and can't give feedback.

Anyway, I don't have the artifact since I hate paladin turret tanking, but I did give it a whirl in timewalking at the 7.0 patch and my general impression was one of squishiness. I do think the artifact adds a lot and you do have some amazing self-healing, but if your healer is asleep you are boned. (Again, my opinion, I'll give it another go later but for the moment I'm not enthused.)

[Ciric-Wildhammer]

Just need to be weary of how you use Light of the protector and other cds.

[Ifeanychukwu]

Without an armory link no one will know what spec he is and can't give feedback.

Anyway, I don't have the artifact since I hate paladin turret tanking, but I did give it a whirl in timewalking at the 7.0 patch and my general impression was one of squishiness. I do think the artifact adds a lot and you do have some amazing self-healing, but if your healer is asleep you are boned. (Again, my opinion, I'll give it another go later but for the moment I'm not enthused.)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...vendawn/simple

There's his armory though it's way outdated regarding his gear at the moment.

[Exerionx]

Our MT is a prot paladin as well. He was doing fine in heroics and now mythics. I never noticed a hard time healing him for the most part.

Maybe your tank isn't using mitigation on specific hard hitting abilities? If youre confident he isn't a noob at tanking then i'm not sure what could be the issue. Perhaps below average healers?

[Swizzington]

As a healer, I've noticed the couple of prot paladins I've had have seemed noticeably squishier than other tanks. But this is from a pretty small sample size so take it with a grain of salt.

[Splatter]

Perhaps below average healers?

This is quite possible. Had a couple of terrible pug healers (thankfully while i was queued as dps!). As prot my health fluctuates a lot but I don't die and generally have no issues running heroics (i847 though). You do have to get used to alternating your heal and your SoR to try stabilise your health. You have a lot of strong mitigation to support your healing too. The Artifact ability for aoe packs is very handy and you can use pony as damage mitigation as well.

Prot seems to do the least self healing of all the classes but if you play it well it should have some solid mitigation to back that up.

[Danuru]

I'm having a blast tanking as a prot paladin. You do have to watch your own health and you'll be doing quite a bit of self healing to help the healer out. But you play right and you'll be godly. Also artifact does help quite a bit. The ability does decent damage while providing some mitigation. While the artifact traits themselves help a lot. Some of them buff light of the protector, and one of my favorites gives you a shield based on the damage you deal from avenger's shield.

It may not be as easy to tank as a warrior, (from what I hear, they're unkillable) But I've had lot's of fun. That being said, you definitely can't just run in and expect your healer to do all the work.. We have lot's of mitigation, including a divine shield that taunts everyone (If specced into that, which you should be.) You just have to use all the tools at your disposal.

[Ifeanychukwu]

Our MT is a prot paladin as well. He was doing fine in heroics and now mythics. I never noticed a hard time healing him for the most part.

Maybe your tank isn't using mitigation on specific hard hitting abilities? If youre confident he isn't a noob at tanking then i'm not sure what could be the issue. Perhaps below average healers?

I definitely think it's mostly the healers. Not even the healers though, if your dps don't interrupt or get out of shit on the ground it puts a real strain on the healer AND the tank. It's just that I'm having a hard time convincing him of this.

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I'm having a blast tanking as a prot paladin. You do have to watch your own health and you'll be doing quite a bit of self healing to help the healer out. But you play right and you'll be godly. Also artifact does help quite a bit. The ability does decent damage while providing some mitigation. While the artifact traits themselves help a lot. Some of them buff light of the protector, and one of my favorites gives you a shield based on the damage you deal from avenger's shield.

It may not be as easy to tank as a warrior, (from what I hear, they're unkillable) But I've had lot's of fun. That being said, you definitely can't just run in and expect your healer to do all the work.. We have lot's of mitigation, including a divine shield that taunts everyone (If specced into that, which you should be.) You just have to use all the tools at your disposal.

I'll just have to keep encouraging him I guess. He's close to getting that absorb trait you're talking about so maybe that'll help. I think he just needs to stop running with pugs lol.

[Simulacrum]

Maybe you should just talk to him OP. You say he's boring to heal, so clearly he isn't actually squishy. And by talk to him I mean to him. Not random internet strangers in a forum thread based on a false premise. Don't be a coward. Man up.

[Deleted]

He's just used to spam Shield of the Righteous, tell him to use the charges wisely and talent Bastion of light to help with that, Use light of the protector as reactive mitigation too. Also Blinding Light if he's on a hard pack to give healer some time to catch up while he's still learning to play and the talent judgement of light for a mini inspiring presence. and these are not the big CDs.
It's not a Prot Pally Problem it's just that your GM need to adapt to the new way of playing, tell him to read and watch some guides, it should show him how he should play and if the play style doesn't suit him anymore he'd better rerolling instead of wasting time of his guild mates because his fears.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Paladins have the strongest kit on the market. Warriors may have the best active mitigation and Blood may have the best self healing, but those things are one trick ponies when it comes to raid.
A paladin will be able to address every single mechanic a boss throws at him in some way, and anyone playing one should understand that.

[Exerionx]

I definitely think it's mostly the healers. Not even the healers though, if your dps don't interrupt or get out of shit on the ground it puts a real strain on the healer AND the tank. It's just that I'm having a hard time convincing him of this.

It's pretty possible yeah. A lot of random abilities in each dungeon seem to hit REALLY hard if you are lazy or don't stun / CC some mobs. For example, the archers in Black Rook Hold are horrible if you don't chuck out a stun.

My experiences are pretty skewed I guess because I just run dungeons with guildies so most of us aren't anchoring the group like most pugs seem to do.

This is quite possible. Had a couple of terrible pug healers (thankfully while i was queued as dps!). As prot my health fluctuates a lot but I don't die and generally have no issues running heroics (i847 though). You do have to get used to alternating your heal and your SoR to try stabilise your health. You have a lot of strong mitigation to support your healing too. The Artifact ability for aoe packs is very handy and you can use pony as damage mitigation as well.

Prot seems to do the least self healing of all the classes but if you play it well it should have some solid mitigation to back that up.

A lot of healers are pretty under geared in pugs this early in the expansion, and for the most part, are average or below average. (Massive generalization, I know). But a good prot paladin can make life a lot easier for healers too. Anyways, what I'm gathering is that the healers he's been grouped with have been really average.

Oh and with that being said, it's incredibly likely seeing as the healers I've been pugged with don't EVER dispel ANYTHING. It triggers me hard haha.

[Ifeanychukwu]

Maybe you should just talk to him OP. You say he's boring to heal, so clearly he isn't actually squishy. And by talk to him I mean to him. Not random internet strangers in a forum thread based on a false premise. Don't be a coward. Man up.

I've been talking to him about it all week. He's just stubborn lol. He's always reluctant when there's major changes at the beginning of an expansion because he doesn't particularly like the drastic changes every time. He's let his experiences with randoms influence what his idea of what mythics are going to be like. I've been trying to make suggestions and just trying to convince him to just try a single mythic but I think in his eyes he thinks if he goes in without being prepared he's holding back the group which isn't really true but like I said, he's stubborn.

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It's pretty possible yeah. A lot of random abilities in each dungeon seem to hit REALLY hard if you are lazy or don't stun / CC some mobs. For example, the archers in Black Rook Hold are horrible if you don't chuck out a stun.

My experiences are pretty skewed I guess because I just run dungeons with guildies so most of us aren't anchoring the group like most pugs seem to do.



A lot of healers are pretty under geared in pugs this early in the expansion, and for the most part, are average or below average. (Massive generalization, I know). But a good prot paladin can make life a lot easier for healers too. Anyways, what I'm gathering is that the healers he's been grouped with have been really average.

Oh and with that being said, it's incredibly likely seeing as the healers I've been pugged with don't EVER dispel ANYTHING. It triggers me hard haha.

The dispel thing is huge. I dispel everything I can ASAP, to the point that it's frustrating because of the cool down and inability to be able to dispel literally everything. It's a huge thing in some of these dungeons though where poison damage can seemingly ramp up, especially if it's on more than one person it can become difficult to manage the damage.