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  1. #181
    Hey, guys, I noticed we don't have stat weights in the guide. I've been using the ones on Icy Veins- are those correct? Seems like a good thing to have in the guide. Or maybe Brusalk just doesn't want to rip them off.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  2. #182
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Hey, guys, I noticed we don't have stat weights in the guide. I've been using the ones on Icy Veins- are those correct? Seems like a good thing to have in the guide. Or maybe Brusalk just doesn't want to rip them off.
    seems like so far the is no consensus on the weight. Most people agree that haste is amazing.

    For now I'd stick with Icy Veins, although I wouldn't bet my life on it by any means.

    It's not like we have much choice right now anyways.

    Normally I choose ilvl over anything, but when an item has versatility and mastery I may even equip a lower level item with haste (if it isn't a huge difference of ilvls)

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    We can actually fix/specify your trinket example so that it more closely corresponds to vers vs. mastery. Lets consider a very particular rppm trinket: one that doesn't proc any buffs nor have any passive stats but instead occasionally rppm-blasts the target for X damage. You have a choice between this and a passive stat trinket which yields the same overall damage increase (on average). Which one would you use?
    If you have two trinkets that sim equally, then both are valid. But the problem is that the two trinkets in question (or rather stats) don't sim the same, and you're saying one should choose the lower simming stat because of less variability. And again, that's perfectly fine if you want that, but that doesn't make mastery a shit stat. Now if the criticism is that the general player base doesn't like variability in their mastery, then that's a different story, one in fact that I could care less about. I'm much less interested in complaining my way into getting what I want than trying my best to get the most out of what is on the table.

  4. #184
    What do u think about the darkmoon trinket ?

  5. #185

    Pre-Raid Destro BiS question

    I've seen most theorycrafters saying that Naraxas' Spiked Tongue and Oakheart's Gnarled Root being the BiS trinkets for Destro, but I havent seen any discussion over the World Quest trinkets. For instance, I just got an 850 Bloom of the New Growth with 1233 int and 932 haste, would this trinket not be better due to straight stat increase or are the two previously mentioned trinket's proc dots just too good?

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by blackops2008 View Post
    I'm needing an advice...

    I did see a nihilum warlock using channel demonfire + GOSAC since each hit of channel demonfire has a chance to proc demonic power which is great for aoe trash mobs from mythic dungeons.
    GOSAC's proc is a RPPM chance, so unless there is a bug there, the speed of impact events shouldn't have a significant impact on the total number of procs you get over the fight. That's just how RPPM works as a mechanic. The proc chance is independent of the frequency of hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackops2008 View Post
    I'm wanting to know if in a bossfight i priorize to use channel demonfire over waiting to get shards for chaos bolt to use it with erradication debuff or i should ignore it and use on cooldown.
    Everytime you let the Eradication debuff drop, you're only really losing 8% damage on that one Chaos Bolt. You're still going to get the same number of Soul Shards in the fight, regardless of letting it drop or not. Thus, it just means that the Chaos Bolt you have to use to get the debuff rolling again is going to be unbuffed, when it otherwise might not have been.

    So, that question basically filters down into whether delaying CDF is worth losing 8% damage of one Chaos Bolt, in order to get 8% damage on CDF. On single-target, a CDF is worth 630 % SP, while Chaos Bolt will be around 660% with no artifact points into CB.

    The impact of delaying a CDF is significant. Say we have a 300 second fight. If we use CDF perfectly on CD every time it's available, we'll get 300/(15/(1+Haste)) casts of CDF. Thus we get 630*300/(15/(1+H)) % SP using it on CD. Instead, say we delay every CDF by, on average, 1 second, every time it is available. We can expect to get about 630*300/(1 + (15/(1+Haste))) % SP. If we take the difference of those two functions of Haste, we can find that delaying by even just one second, with 20% haste we'll lose 1120 % SP, which is almost 2 full casts of Channel Demonfire, and this just gets worst the more Haste we have, since CDF's CD is reduced, which means more cooldowns that we delay.

    The above napkin math makes me think that you're far better off just casting it on CD so you don't lose whole casts over the course of a fight. Gaining 8% damage on a couple of Chaos Bolts over the course of a fight isn't worth losing 1-2 full Chaos Bolts worth of damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackops2008 View Post
    And also, which is the opening sequence recommended?

    I'm using Incinerate > immolate > doomguard > 2x dimensional rift > conflagrate > 3 incinerate > conflagrate > chaos bolt > channel demon fire
    If you're max distance you can get off two Incinerates before pre-pull.

    Specifically what you do pre-pull is pretty dependent on if you have any damage procs or damage windows during the fight. Unless you're at risk of capping Soul Shards, getting a Chaos Bolt out (unless you have Eradication) is pretty low priority during the pull. It's better to get your other cooldowns/recharges rolling, since you'll be able to get the Chaos Bolt out later for the same damage benefit.

    Incin => Incin => Immolate => Doomguard => Conflag => DR => CDF => Rotation is probably a good start. If you're using Erad, you'll want to get a Chaos Bolt in there before the CDF.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Yeah I get that, but 60% chance of soul shard per tick is like crack cocaine!
    To be clear, Soul Shard proc chance off of Immolate is not directly correlated to your Crit chance. Immolate has a 15% chance to proc a Soul Shard always. Immolate has a 30% chance to proc a Soul Shard if it crits. If you have 100% Crit, each Immolate tick is still only a 30% chance to proc a Soul Shard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    There's a difference between disliking it and letting it skew your gearing.

    I hate the new mastery system, but I wouldn't let that change how I (or rather, the more mathematically skilled theorycrafters) weigh stats up against each other. If mastery is fractionally better than versatility then I wouldn't start gearing versatility just because I dislike our mastery.

    It's a subtle unpleasantness to me, not something you actively play around. That's one of the reasons that I think it's the lesser of the classes problems. I wish they hadn't done it, but at least it's not something that you're usually interacting with or noticing unless you go looking for it. There's a world of difference between destro mastery and blatantly obnoxious stuff like Soul Effigy etc that are impossible to ignore.
    My 2c is that, if/while Mastery may be fractionally better than Versatility in % Damage gained per Stat Point, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to want to reduce their +/- variance on a fight-to-fight basis, as the cost of that fractional increase.

    It may be the case that, over the course of a statistically significant number of attempts, your individual performance smoothes out to be exactly equal to the average benefit of the Mastery. However, I think it is perfectly reasonable for an individual raider to make the judgement that they do not want to have have the smallest of chances that they'll wipe their raid by rolling low. While it's just as statistically likely that you'll roll high as you rolled low, you can make the judgement that your minimum-low-roll is unacceptable, even if it gives you a higher average over all attempts. The statistics is symmetrical, but that doesn't mean that your value judgement has to necessarily align.

    It's also just as true, as other people pointed out here, that your individual contribution, as affected by Mastery, is extremely unlikely to influence whether the add/mechanic dies in time. There's so much variance across the entire raid's rotational timings, procs, masteries, pets, etc that the individual influence of your mastery specifically likely doesn't matter. For every attempt that you roll 0% bonus mastery, the odds that someone in your raid got a trinket proc during that window is honestly more likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Hey, guys, I noticed we don't have stat weights in the guide. I've been using the ones on Icy Veins- are those correct? Seems like a good thing to have in the guide. Or maybe Brusalk just doesn't want to rip them off.
    There is a stat weight section in this guide!

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ro-Guide#stats

  7. #187
    Is there a point where I should stop focusing on haste?

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by lRemedyl View Post
    Is there a point where I should stop focusing on haste?
    Sim yourself for stat weights, its going to be based on your own gear.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  9. #189
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Is there any way to trigger armory update? I reached some truly scandalous haste level - 14k rating - 43% haste and I want to sim it out, but armory is hopelessly outdated.

  10. #190
    Not that I know of. It seems like armory updates are disabled for US. EU seems to be updating just fine.

  11. #191
    Use the simcraft addon

  12. #192
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    I recently came back to WoW, after not playing since cata, and I have a question, regarding Eradication.

    Let's say I have immolate on the target, then use chaos bolt. Do the 6% damage increase trigger for the remaining duration of immolate, or do I need to cast immolate again to get the 6% damage increase?

  13. #193
    What crafted gear have people bought?

    I'm assuming that the ...of the Impatient is the best but it seems rather uncommon.

    How are the necks holding up?

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purely View Post
    I recently came back to WoW, after not playing since cata, and I have a question, regarding Eradication.

    Let's say I have immolate on the target, then use chaos bolt. Do the 6% damage increase trigger for the remaining duration of immolate, or do I need to cast immolate again to get the 6% damage increase?
    Eradication is a 12% damage taken debuff on the target. It automatically applies to those, and only those, Immolate ticks that occur within the duration of the debuff. The things you have to worry about here are that the Immolate duration should not run out during Eradication and that you have enough shards to cast 2 CBs (taking Conflagrate into account), so that you don't have to waste any Eradication time for refreshing Immolate.

    Edit. In general, you can no longer snapshot DoTs. They update dynamically whenever you gain a buff, or lose a buff.

    Edit2. As mentioned in Brusalk's guide, you should try to "space" the CB casts so that the second CB hits as late as possible while the previous Eradication is still up to extend the debuff optimally.
    Last edited by Uzkin; 2016-09-12 at 10:33 AM.

  15. #195
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeyshadow View Post
    What crafted gear have people bought?

    I'm assuming that the ...of the Impatient is the best but it seems rather uncommon.

    How are the necks holding up?
    Yes I grabbed all the impatient pieces I could, crafted some neck and ring with haste as dominant stat, I also found there is some BoE ring which often pops up in AH with only haste, I have one with socket and of course wearing every last item with Haste as dominant stat I could get.

    So I have 14k haste now, it's fun. This is some glorious shit because you end up swimming in shards and your burst phase is pretty fun too because 2 of 3 rifts scale with haste and it makes them do plenty of damage, I also went Dimension Rift way after LoF so with all that haste I have 1.4 sec cast Incinerate and I get a few rifts as well just from that, though sometimes you have no choice but to spam Chaos Bolt because of shards income being psychic if you have Immolate on 2-3 targets, like some beefier trash packs 6 or so Havoced Chaos Bolts in the row is not that rare.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2016-09-12 at 10:32 AM.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanis149 View Post
    I've seen most theorycrafters saying that Naraxas' Spiked Tongue and Oakheart's Gnarled Root being the BiS trinkets for Destro, but I havent seen any discussion over the World Quest trinkets. For instance, I just got an 850 Bloom of the New Growth with 1233 int and 932 haste, would this trinket not be better due to straight stat increase or are the two previously mentioned trinket's proc dots just too good?
    Gahddo is not a big fan of those trinkets. On Discord he initially said he was reluctant to sim trinkets on Patchwerk fights because he didn't want people to get the idea that Naraxas was the best trinket, and even after he did sim them he put a disclaimer saying "PLEASE keep in mind this is patchwerk ST, naraxus and other damage proc trinkets aren't nearly this good in reality." In AoE or cleave situations stat sticks or trinkets that buff your stats may prove better.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaman View Post
    Gahddo is not a big fan of those trinkets. On Discord he initially said he was reluctant to sim trinkets on Patchwerk fights because he didn't want people to get the idea that Naraxas was the best trinket, and even after he did sim them he put a disclaimer saying "PLEASE keep in mind this is patchwerk ST, naraxus and other damage proc trinkets aren't nearly this good in reality." In AoE or cleave situations stat sticks or trinkets that buff your stats may prove better.
    But HOW are they even good? both mastery and versatility are complete shit for destro. How is Chrono Shard, from Avisor Vandros, in The Arcway not a million times better? I can't wrap my head around it

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post

    Everytime you let the Eradication debuff drop, you're only really losing 8% damage on that one Chaos Bolt. You're still going to get the same number of Soul Shards in the fight, regardless of letting it drop or not. Thus, it just means that the Chaos Bolt you have to use to get the debuff rolling again is going to be unbuffed, when it otherwise might not have been.

    So, that question basically filters down into whether delaying CDF is worth losing 8% damage of one Chaos Bolt, in order to get 8% damage on CDF. On single-target, a CDF is worth 630 % SP, while Chaos Bolt will be around 660% with no artifact points into CB.

    The impact of delaying a CDF is significant. Say we have a 300 second fight. If we use CDF perfectly on CD every time it's available, we'll get 300/(15/(1+Haste)) casts of CDF. Thus we get 630*300/(15/(1+H)) % SP using it on CD. Instead, say we delay every CDF by, on average, 1 second, every time it is available. We can expect to get about 630*300/(1 + (15/(1+Haste))) % SP. If we take the difference of those two functions of Haste, we can find that delaying by even just one second, with 20% haste we'll lose 1120 % SP, which is almost 2 full casts of Channel Demonfire, and this just gets worst the more Haste we have, since CDF's CD is reduced, which means more cooldowns that we delay.

    The above napkin math makes me think that you're far better off just casting it on CD so you don't lose whole casts over the course of a fight. Gaining 8% damage on a couple of Chaos Bolts over the course of a fight isn't worth losing 1-2 full Chaos Bolts worth of damage.

    While your point still stands, eradication is 12%, not 8 (unless tooltip is wrong).

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Turturin the Warlock View Post
    While your point still stands, eradication is 12%, not 8 (unless tooltip is wrong).
    Sorry! You're correct. I had 8% on the brain from somewhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Purely View Post
    I recently came back to WoW, after not playing since cata, and I have a question, regarding Eradication.

    Let's say I have immolate on the target, then use chaos bolt. Do the 6% damage increase trigger for the remaining duration of immolate, or do I need to cast immolate again to get the 6% damage increase?
    As mentioned by others, DoTs no longer snapshot any stat unless they specifically mention as such in the tooltip. In the case of Immolate, an Immolate that was cast before Eradication was applied will benefit from the Eradication damage bonus for any ticks that occur while the debuff is on the target.

  20. #200
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    What's the interaction between eradication and rifts? Because it seems like eradication increases the damage they do through out their entire duration as long as the debuff is up when you summon the rift. I'm assuming that it's because the damage is calculated as a hole and then later split in to the appropriate amount for the singular hits.

    Do the DR's "snapshot" eradications damage taken increase, or is it just my imagination running wild?

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