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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    Trust me they know, they just didn't care.

    All those imbalances/broken (op and up) spec were known since the alpha with plenty of feedback but they barely answered and when they did it was "it fits the class fantasy"
    You don't handle a multi-billion dollar company with close to 10 million players shouting different opinions at you with different levels of feedback and whining. So yeah, when they struggle to balance, i'll take their word for it rather than some random dude in MMO champion saying "lol they dont care class fantasy boohoo"

  2. #162
    So many pages on a dps thread about dungeons ... as if that matters at all lmao. In a week we will be in raids where the scales will shift so why bother caring what is top dps in a 5 man

  3. #163
    Getting nervous about raiding as a Destro Warlock. I've been running tons of heroics and mythics and got geared up very quickly ~848 ilvl. Now that other classes are catching up I'm getting smoked ST. I grouped with a mage and hunter who were ~10 ilvl below me but did 300k+ ST in Azshara while I was around 200k. We're no world first guild but we are a server first guild. I'm working on a hunter as backup but I think it's too late. I'd bench my Warlock on every fight except dragons. Feels bad man.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by whitewillsmith View Post
    Hello Everyone!

    If you had to list in order which DPS spec are in the best place to the worst place what would that order look like? PvE And PvP separate if you have that much knowledge :-P

    a/k/a "I'm bad, tell me what class to play so people don't boot me from groups immediately."

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallebarry View Post
    You don't handle a multi-billion dollar company with close to 10 million players shouting different opinions at you with different levels of feedback and whining. So yeah, when they struggle to balance, i'll take their word for it rather than some random dude in MMO champion saying "lol they dont care class fantasy boohoo"
    I never whined. I'm just stating the obvious.

    They didn't care during alpha and beta unless something was really beyond stupid and gamebreaking because they wait for the expac to be released on live servers no matter how shitty some specs are (hello frost dk)
    _____________________

    Homophobia is so gay.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    I never whined. I'm just stating the obvious.

    They didn't care during alpha and beta unless something was really beyond stupid and gamebreaking because they wait for the expac to be released on live servers no matter how shitty some specs are (hello frost dk)
    Why spend time researching and fixing classes when you'll just have to do it again in a few weeks. I assume you played Alpha, which if you have, you'd know classes are MUCH closer tuned than they first were. Why tune when they only know half the story. How classes look in a 5 man mythic dungeon is nothing what they look like in a 20 man raid.

  7. #167
    Stood in the Fire
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    847 Ret Paladin here with 23% Crit and like 28% Haste, hitting about 300k+ initial burst and leveling out at around 230k on a single-target boss encounter that allows for a few seconds of ramp-up.

    Also at level 19 Ashbringer with only Ashes to Ashes for Gold traits (ilvl of 866)

    Numbers should go up at 30% Haste and Crit and with better trinkets, but right now this looks like a comfortable mid-point for a DPS class.
    Last edited by xxcloud417xx; 2016-09-12 at 03:16 PM.

  8. #168
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxcloud417xx View Post
    847 Ret Paladin here with 23% Crit and like 28% Haste, hitting about 300k+ initial burst and leveling out at around 230k on a single-target boss encounter that allows for a few seconds of ramp-up.

    Also at level 19 Ashbringer with only Ashes to Ashes for Gold traits (ilvl of 866)

    Numbers should go up at 30% Haste and Crit and with better trinkets, but right now this looks like a comfortable mid-point for a DPS class.
    I don't doubt that Ret can do well on single or cleave target tank and spank fights but my concern has always been target swapping due to Judgment and movement in general. Even with two charges of Steed you can sometimes get caught flat-footed if a lot of movement and switching is required.

    I really want to like Retribution but every time I go out in to the world and do a quest I just feel so disappointed especially when I can suite up in Prot and do everything better. Maybe I should just play Prot until I have enough points to get AtA the long way and swap?
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  9. #169
    UHDK here, 847. My gear is in no way optimized, although I'm following IcyVeins to a T for max ST damage (except Epidemic because it's just too good on Mythic trash). 31% crit, 14% haste (yes I need to equalize those). Also no neck enchant and using green haste gems (quick aszunite). Artifact level 19 Apocalypse, about halfway to 20. Have Shambler, which is pretty awesome.

    I'm able to burst well above 300k at the start with all cooldowns up. After that it drops down pretty significantly, depending on uptime I get anywhere from 200-250k. There's a ton of variance, sadly. I wish I had more opportunity to practice because usually I have to tank Mythics for my guild and pugs.

    I really want to like Retribution but every time I go out in to the world and do a quest I just feel so disappointed especially when I can suite up in Prot and do everything better.
    DKs are exactly the same way right now. Sure, UH will allow me to pull 6-7 mobs and burn them down ultra-fast but I run the risk of dying most of the time if I do this in, say, Suramar. Meanwhile I can do the exact same thing as Blood and finish at full health ready to murder another pack. With Bonestorm, I don't even have that much of an AOE differential in DPS when it's available. I had the same issue in beta, gave the same feedback on melee plate DPS feeling entirely too squishy, and besides Blood being nerfed slightly in the damage and survivability department, nothing was done. I realize we're in garbage gear right now even at the high end, but it feels like the world at 110 was tuned pretty high this time around.
    Last edited by Farabee; 2016-09-12 at 03:52 PM.

  10. #170
    I say shadow's alright. Sure I do terrible in burst aoe situations, but in sustained aoe ~15 seconds I feel like I pull my weight. ST I do fairly well, usually top of the DPS, especially on fights that spawn adds regularly.

    WW and DH's seem to be absolutely destroying meters though.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Enitzu View Post
    So many pages on a dps thread about dungeons ... as if that matters at all lmao. In a week we will be in raids where the scales will shift so why bother caring what is top dps in a 5 man
    Because of mythic + (lmao!!!)

  12. #172
    Again the newest classes are destroying in the damage meters, i would expect a tiny nerf tomorrow to see how balance the class

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilnezhara View Post
    Balance Druid seems very middle of the road -> Bad. Thinking of rerolling DH.
    Really enjoying balance right now even though I main resto. With my artifact at 837 atm I'm easily sustaining 200-220k single target and better when procs/CDs line up. AoE on trash can vary greatly, either it's great or it's terrible... bursts of 400k or more or 150k on really bad pulls where I don't manage to get a starfall/FoE off before the DHs just melt everything with they eye beams lol. Balance DPS is really dependent on proper talents and points spent in your artifact so you may want to check your build so you can reset your artifact before you get too far along.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Again the newest classes are destroying in the damage meters, i would expect a tiny nerf tomorrow to see how balance the class
    I don't think they can fix DH broken AoE. If they nerf eye beam or that blade dance or whatever it's called you kind of break their single target too. I would think so anyway, I haven't personally played my DH yet so I can't say for sure if that's the only reason their AoE is so crazy.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    I don't doubt that Ret can do well on single or cleave target tank and spank fights but my concern has always been target swapping due to Judgment and movement in general. Even with two charges of Steed you can sometimes get caught flat-footed if a lot of movement and switching is required.

    I really want to like Retribution but every time I go out in to the world and do a quest I just feel so disappointed especially when I can suite up in Prot and do everything better. Maybe I should just play Prot until I have enough points to get AtA the long way and swap?
    With enough Haste, target swapping isn't terrible. I have enough Haste now (even under 30%) to target swap with a fresh Judgement application (or very close to having it up again anyway).

    What you want to do is get Crusade as your lvl100 talent and make sure you get Artifact Relics that increase your uptime on wings and you'll be pretty competitive in any situation, even AoE with Ashes to Ashes on top of it all too.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Ifeanychukwu View Post
    Really enjoying balance right now even though I main resto. With my artifact at 837 atm I'm easily sustaining 200-220k single target and better when procs/CDs line up. AoE on trash can vary greatly, either it's great or it's terrible... bursts of 400k or more or 150k on really bad pulls where I don't manage to get a starfall/FoE off before the DHs just melt everything with they eye beams lol. Balance DPS is really dependent on proper talents and points spent in your artifact so you may want to check your build so you can reset your artifact before you get too far along.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't think they can fix DH broken AoE. If they nerf eye beam or that blade dance or whatever it's called you kind of break their single target too. I would think so anyway, I haven't personally played my DH yet so I can't say for sure if that's the only reason their AoE is so crazy.
    Eye beam isn't a ST rotation spell, it's sub-optimal to use. The reason they have such good AOE is because almost all of their abilities are AOE.

    Fel rush, which hits as hard as a normal ST strike of theirs (thanks tier 1 talent), will hit everything in a pack for great dps, up to 4 charges can be used with Blur popped.

    Blade dance, looks sick, but does weaker dmg than all of our other options. But, with an artifact talent, does 10% more dmg per target hit... you do the math.

    "Eye laser", huge ridiculous burst on a 45 sec cooldown, paired with the Artifact weapon ability, and it's lights out for AOE dps meters.

    Throw Glaive, this one is deceptively good, but usually just to fill windows during aoe if things survive. It's great ST dmg ironically, with the attached bleed talent. For AOE, it's probably the worst GCD, if things are going to die relatively quickly, but if they survive for the bleed dmg, it's icing on the cake.

    Artifact Ability, huge damage. I have a ret spec on my Paladin, and their artifact cd seems just sad in comparison. I haven't played enough specs, but I feel like this one could be toned down a bit, if the other weapons aren't this great as well.

    ==

    What do they even nerf? I could see Eye Beam getting reduced, and probably Fel Rush. But Eye Beam is narrow, you can't move, and has pretty short range. Unless everything is perfectly lined up (aka trash packs, which aren't that important in the grand scheme of things), there aren't many uses for it that totally break the balance of things.

    Artifact Weapon too, but that's only if other weapons aren't as good, and I haven't played enough classes to see how they all perform.

  16. #176
    From what I've seen so far, monks, dh, and hunters all seem to perform consistently well in the dungeons.

    On my own character, enhancement pulls nearly 2x the dps that elemental does, but it's not a level playing field either.. I've invested significantly more AP into doomhammer. All gear being equal, I suspect it would still fall behind in most situations.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Enitzu View Post
    So many pages on a dps thread about dungeons ... as if that matters at all lmao. In a week we will be in raids where the scales will shift so why bother caring what is top dps in a 5 man
    Some folks will consider 5 mans to be most of their end game. Just sayin.

    Also, it's likely that what shines *now* will also shine equally well in raid situations.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post

    Some folks will consider 5 mans to be most of their end game. Just sayin.

    Also, it's likely that what shines *now* will also shine equally well in raid situations.
    If you really think this is the case then I have no idea how you have lasted this long in WoW. Dungeons have never been near equal to raids in terms of dps numbers. This is why challenge modes were often done by only certain classes. It's also why WW monks and DH are being publically outraged and cried about for a nerf yet come raids their numbers are middle of the pack.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Enitzu View Post
    If you really think this is the case then I have no idea how you have lasted this long in WoW. Dungeons have never been near equal to raids in terms of dps numbers. This is why challenge modes were often done by only certain classes. It's also why WW monks and DH are being publically outraged and cried about for a nerf yet come raids their numbers are middle of the pack.
    I'm not saying the numbers themselves will be equal, I'm saying that classes that do well now will also likely do well in raids. Let's see what things look like a few weeks after the first tier opens.

  19. #179
    I don't think they can fix DH broken AoE. If they nerf eye beam or that blade dance or whatever it's called you kind of break their single target too. I would think so anyway, I haven't personally played my DH yet so I can't say for sure if that's the only reason their AoE is so crazy.
    All the class have a spell that work both as aoe and single, conflagate as warlock destro, whirldwind for warriors and the monk skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    I don't doubt that Ret can do well on single or cleave target tank and spank fights but my concern has always been target swapping due to Judgment and movement in general. Even with two charges of Steed you can sometimes get caught flat-footed if a lot of movement and switching is required.

    I really want to like Retribution but every time I go out in to the world and do a quest I just feel so disappointed especially when I can suite up in Prot and do everything better. Maybe I should just play Prot until I have enough points to get AtA the long way and swap?

    The ret spec is in the same place the warrior were in the beginning of WoD with the tank spec doing more damage than the others 2 specs, i think blizzard will buff ret 2 weeks after the launch of the nightmare raid
    Last edited by Zandalariprelate; 2016-09-12 at 07:28 PM.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    All the class have a spell that work both as aoe and single, conflagate as warlock destro, whirldwind for warriors and the monk skills
    Conflag doesn't AoE at all. Are you thinking of Havoc, that duplicates all spells cast on a target to the Havoc'd target?

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