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  1. #41
    Banned docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhazzyTV View Post
    @Ashgaan:

    "instanced pvp"
    So I've experienced first hand how I drop 2mil HP in less than 2 seconds in both arena skirmishes as well as BG's.
    My gladiator Rshaman is getting gimped in the first 2 seconds in HoJ if he doesn't trinket it directly.

    Free blurs, wrong. We get 2 Fel Rush charges when we use Blur. I don't mind a more balanced approach in terms of effeciency, CD, Duration but defensive CDs are very limited unlike a Ret paladin for example. Also, DHs are very weak vs CC unlike, again, Ret paladins.


    People will learn how to play against DH's ret paladins dont need to care about this, they stun and click 1 button and deal between 500k-1.5mil dmg in that 1 global instant attack.
    The hardest hitting JV (the ability you're referring to) i've hit was against someone who sat in my opening stun and popped no defensive even though i used wings. It crit and dealt 600k, but that was entirely on him. If a pally hits you with a hoj and pops wings why wouldn't you at least trinket?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by GhazzyTV View Post
    @Ashgaan:

    "instanced pvp"
    So I've experienced first hand how I drop 2mil HP in less than 2 seconds in both arena skirmishes as well as BG's.
    My gladiator Rshaman is getting gimped in the first 2 seconds in HoJ if he doesn't trinket it directly.

    Free blurs, wrong. We get 2 Fel Rush charges when we use Blur. I don't mind a more balanced approach in terms of effeciency, CD, Duration but defensive CDs are very limited unlike a Ret paladin for example. Also, DHs are very weak vs CC unlike, again, Ret paladins.


    People will learn how to play against DH's ret paladins dont need to care about this, they stun and click 1 button and deal between 500k-1.5mil dmg in that 1 global instant attack.
    just tested out, the max i got was on a rogue with no dmg reductions up while i had Wings up and was at max Vengeance aura stacks (+16%), and it was 490k (rogue was judged and stunned), non crit. I do not main Ret so my iLvL was not that big( it shouldn't affect it though, as dmg there is no dmg increase in the artifact weapon to JV).
    Please do not take this as a way of defending any class, all burst dmg is ridiculous now, pair a burst melee with arms warrior with Pain Train, unless you are immune you will not survive that, or have godly, split second peels.
    I agree with you to some extent, no class should drop 100-0 in a stun to 1 dps, nor be oneshoted by 2 dps(1 gcd).

    Regarding the Blur charges i was thinking at the interaction between Demon Reborn with Demonic and maybe AtDW, but i might be wrong in how they interact, must reach max lvl on the DH to test.

    Actually this is the reason why i don't have a DH now, if the dmg gets nerfed they bring very little to the composition of a team. Monks have better mobility, control, defensive and pressure, while also bringing better peels and MS. I will not talk rogues as no one messes with the king, or he will get SS in real life.

  3. #43
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    No one should be calling for changes until we get to end game and have all of our AW traits unlocks. the game isnt balanced around 13-22 artifact trait pvp.....

  4. #44
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by MacTavish View Post
    As a DH player:

    Sheep/Blind/Hex me when I pop it. Once trinket it because I don't want to lose 1/3 of my Meta duration stunlock me and burst me. There is nothing I can do in that situation (unless I have healer popping cooldowns to save me). I can't Blur, and I can't heal through leech because I can't hit anything. Also Cloak/Evasion/Parry/Riposte/Karma basically stops me dead in tracks and allows me getting bursted down. Roots are also great too as I can't break them and my three gapclosers are useless. Frost Mages are really tough opponents for that reason.

    Now I don't think its badly designed. Demon Hunters have insane burst/pressure, mobility but bad survivability and are vulnerable to CC. I would personally rather see decrease in our burst, buff to our non-meta damage and buff to survivablity, but it would go completely against the design of the spec.

    In short, git gud and CC the fuck out of DHs.
    /thread

    10char

  5. #45
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    As a Monk, it's easy to handle as I can just stun/paralyze them down and roll away. Then when they reach me, port back to previous location and then paralyze again. Basically keeping them kited/cc'd long enough until it runs out.

    Good way to piss of DHs, I remember dueling a VDH (they're immortal) on my BrM and the way I won was by kiting the shit out of him ( <3 15 yard range keg smash) in a 20+min match. At the end he was PMing me nasty tells calling me a pussy for running away like a coward and that I was bad.

    I just replied with "How does it feel getting your shit packed in by a bad?"

    Message didn't reach him because he had logged off after raging it out on me. Was a great moment.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  6. #46
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    Relax boyz have you remember DKs ???
    Several patches later DH will just be a crap

  7. #47
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    Relax boyz have you remember DKs ???
    Several patches later DH will just be a crap
    Ummm... DKs are one of the top PvP classes right now.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    Relax boyz have you remember DKs ???
    Several patches later DH will just be a crap
    Yeah i remember DKs.. Free glad for 3 seasons. Im expecting the same from DHs

  9. #49
    Just plan your CC and use it at the right time. We cant do anything when we are CC'd. If you don't know how to CC or when a DH is going to burst, i'm sorry but you are not as good as you think. I agree, we have insanely good burst and cleave but we are probably worse than survival hunter when it comes to actually survive.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashgaan View Post
    just tested out, the max i got was on a rogue with no dmg reductions up while i had Wings up and was at max Vengeance aura stacks (+16%), and it was 490k (rogue was judged and stunned), non crit. I do not main Ret so my iLvL was not that big( it shouldn't affect it though, as dmg there is no dmg increase in the artifact weapon to JV).
    Please do not take this as a way of defending any class, all burst dmg is ridiculous now, pair a burst melee with arms warrior with Pain Train, unless you are immune you will not survive that, or have godly, split second peels.
    I agree with you to some extent, no class should drop 100-0 in a stun to 1 dps, nor be oneshoted by 2 dps(1 gcd).

    Regarding the Blur charges i was thinking at the interaction between Demon Reborn with Demonic and maybe AtDW, but i might be wrong in how they interact, must reach max lvl on the DH to test.

    Actually this is the reason why i don't have a DH now, if the dmg gets nerfed they bring very little to the composition of a team. Monks have better mobility, control, defensive and pressure, while also bringing better peels and MS. I will not talk rogues as no one messes with the king, or he will get SS in real life.
    Isnt that the ability that does more the lower the ret is? Maybe test it at 10% or so.

  11. #51
    Demon hunters are a little over the top, but so are rogues and monks to a degree.
    I expect all leather melee to get nerfed in some way (aside from feral)

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by MacTavish View Post
    As a DH player:

    Sheep/Blind/Hex me when I pop it. Once trinket it because I don't want to lose 1/3 of my Meta duration stunlock me and burst me. There is nothing I can do in that situation (unless I have healer popping cooldowns to save me). I can't Blur, and I can't heal through leech because I can't hit anything. Also Cloak/Evasion/Parry/Riposte/Karma basically stops me dead in tracks and allows me getting bursted down. Roots are also great too as I can't break them and my three gapclosers are useless. Frost Mages are really tough opponents for that reason.

    Now I don't think its badly designed. Demon Hunters have insane burst/pressure, mobility but bad survivability and are vulnerable to CC. I would personally rather see decrease in our burst, buff to our non-meta damage and buff to survivablity, but it would go completely against the design of the spec.

    In short, git gud and CC the fuck out of DHs.
    So 5vs1 you and you die. Got it.
    (that works vs every spec btw)

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Please tell me who has worse defensives than a Havoc DH?

    Blur: 50% dodge and 35% reduced damage. 2 half baked defensives do not make a good one.

    Darkness: Ground targetted AoE that gives 15% to dodge all damage if you stand inside its measely 8yard radius.
    Ret Paladins. Dispellable SoV and HoP through soft dispels like Purge or even Spellsteal and DS through hard dispels. At least your defensives can't be used against you.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by GhazzyTV View Post
    -snip-
    I can assure you, ret did not do 2 mil in 1 ability in an instanced pvp, this is what happened: Ret pull 5 HP (which takes time, also you have to be in melee range to build up HP) then he poped wings, casted Judgement (100% crit if he is speced properly and it takes out additional 5% hp), then he casted hoj, JV, then Ashes to Ashes (our artifact golden trait) then JV again. Bascially this burst is good but you have to set it up. Yes Rets hit hard in the mini burst windows @ melee range, but it is very easy to kite Ret, even UH dks can kite Ret. Also Ret's aoe/clv is total crap, mobility is crap, Defensive cds all dispellable/SS/purge-able hence the only thing Ret has is a burst every 30-45 sec IF target sits in stun.

    From rated PvP pov DH is in far far better position than Rets, DH has far better burst, Better sustain, better aoe, better mobility.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt0193 View Post
    Ret Paladins. Dispellable SoV and HoP through soft dispels like Purge or even Spellsteal and DS through hard dispels. At least your defensives can't be used against you.
    Yep this, in 1v1 or 2v2 (where pvp does not matter) Rets have one of the best survival, but when it comes to Rated 3s (not mentioned RBGs, cuz Rets are not viable nor ever will be) enemy healer/dps will purge all Rets survival and mobility cd, leaving us kited/snared/and naked to incoming dmg.

  15. #55
    Heal nerf was needed, pvp was boring and frustrating with too powerful healing

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Crruor View Post
    Isnt that the ability that does more the lower the ret is? Maybe test it at 10% or so.
    Is not that, you are thinking about the talent Holy Wrath ( 3 min CD, in PvP does 50% missing health in DMG to others), why the hell this sits in the PvE talent tree i have no idea as even in the leveling process it will never be taken (and never for any kind of dps).
    I see a reason to put in the PvP talents, as a protection from being trained as Rets are very very squishy. But even then, rets are so easily kited is not even funny, and any range except warlock will bypass that talent with easy.

    When i see rets with that talent i know they will have garbage survivability and proc burst (losing DP infused JV is really bad, not that it heals for much anyway), so i just burst them to 30% HP then get some range and kite him ( and i can do that as a DK )))))) if unhly he won't even touch me, talk about shit mobility, just save stuns for his freedom + horse). He is one trick pony, kamikaze, might work in 2v2 vs melee comps or same in 3v3 but with less efficiency. And yes starts must align.

    One dimension classes are bad, because once their trick ends they have very few options to continue. DH are one of them, with long CD. Maybe interesting gameplay will develop in time, and i hope it does as i like the lore behind DH a lot. At the moment i don't like the Meta-God / non meta try to not draw attention upon yourself play-style. Also they do not have much team support, they actually have a talent that encourages lone wolf gameplay )).

  17. #57
    The Patient Prada's Avatar
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    I once saw a havoc dh murder a demo warlock, combat rogue and unh dk within one meta cd. I was the warlock lol.
    The dk managed to beat him down low enough for the random mobs to kill him tho, after he died ofc

    In my experience so far tho, the few dh that tried to kill me but failed were all able to escape with ease.......so yea...

  18. #58
    did it get nerfed? it is not healing me like it should

    Quote Originally Posted by Prada View Post
    I once saw a havoc dh murder a demo warlock, combat rogue and unh dk within one meta cd. I was the warlock lol.
    The dk managed to beat him down low enough for the random mobs to kill him tho, after he died ofc
    .
    so none of you had CC? like stun, fear, root etc?

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by tangerine View Post
    We are extremely squishy. Just time your CC and burst correctly and we cant do anything unless we predict when you are going to burst.

    Yeah no, there a melee classes with similar squishiness (enhance, frost DK, survival) and they don't have anywhere near the same toolkit of crazy burst damage,crazy mobility, not to mention you have a lot of defensive CDs in your pvp talent rows

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Appelgren View Post
    Not surprised the people defending this stupid ability are the ones obviously playing it themselfs

    What else can you expect from any multiplayer game with different classes? People will never be objective

  20. #60
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    @Snegovik:

    I was hit for 1.5mil dmg in 2 attacks alone according to the recap.

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