No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[SirCowdog]

Which just happen to be more convenient.

Because if the alternative isn't convenient, it damn well better be worth the effort. And right now it's just simply NOT.

Why do you think even hardcore ground and pound people will use flight paths and flying when it's available? Blizzard needs to address that disparity by improving everything in-between, not just by removing options and forcing people to slog through worthless irrelevance.

[Connll]

Which just happen to be more convenient.

Not precisely.

With a Flight path, you can click and go afk for a bit (for eating, use the toilet, fetch a snack, etc) With a Flying mount, you got to pay attention, lest you wander into the fatigue zone and die.

[Mafic]

You haven't played the expansion. I have. They are polar opposites. You sound ridiculous explaining to me how they are the same based on things you've heard or read versus my actual game experience. But tell ya what ... I'll throw you a bone. Show me what you are reading that says Legion is Wod 2.0, (and that is dated after the launch - not beta experiences). Feel free to link as many of these 'reports' as you want. My guess is that you will just ignore my post now because no credible reviews like this exist.

I played the alpha and I can safely say I am glad I didn't buy Legion.

- - - Updated - - -

Which just happen to be more convenient.

Flight paths more convenient for you I guess but not for me.

[Ordinator]

Except the grapples aren't particularly interesting. They're usually just a single path that skips past mobs that you'd otherwise have to deal with. It's basically just a flight path with more clicking.

Unlocking Suramar teleport networks actually has value, however, because once it's unlocked it instantly takes you to the location(which is one of the suggestions made to improve WoW's travel system).

However, what I find interesting is that both teleporting and the grapples skip everything in-between them, which is something people often bring up as a primary reason for not having flight.

How can fly babies be so dense.. These are examples of fixed travel points. You use them to get close to where you are going and then you are back in the world. They are in no way comparable to unlimited travel of flight paths where you pick and choose where you take off and set down. These examples enhance the way you interact with the world and have a degree of decision making like figuring out ways to travel around Suramar using portals. Tell me the last time there was any decision making with flying mounts past trying to perfectly line up your character arrow on the world map with the objective you're heading towards while using auto walk.

[SirCowdog]

Tell me the last time there was any decision making with flying mounts past trying to perfectly line up your character arrow on the world map with the objective you're heading towards while using auto walk.

Kaliri birds in Skettis and canons in Ogri-la added some spice.

We've been over the ways to make flying interesting, from changing how flying works to changing how terrain and encounter design works. It amazes me that you'll promote grappling hooks as being interesting, but refuse to be open to other ways of improving the open world that includes flight.

[Ordinator]

Kaliri birds in Skettis and canons in Ogri-la added some spice.

We've been over the ways to make flying interesting, from changing how flying works to changing how terrain and encounter design works. It amazes me that you'll promote grappling hooks as being interesting, but refuse to be open to other ways of improving the open world that includes flight.

Flying isn't an integral part of the game to warrant revamping. Nobody has picked up WoW because they heard you can fly in it. So why put so much focus on an aspect of the game that only some people drool over, some people down right do not like, and the majority could give a shit about either way.

[Deleted]

I dont know why but i never got the charm of flying.
When in tbc u got the flying skill it was cool, but the negatives of it was also clear.
I personally like the fact that u cant fly right away, even tho it dosent make much sense lorewise.
Especially with the gun that u can use to be ported to the nearest flightpoint.

[SirCowdog]

Flying isn't an integral part of the game to warrant revamping. Nobody has picked up WoW because they heard you can fly in it. So why put so much focus on an aspect of the game that only some people drool over, some people down right do not like, and the majority could give a shit about either way.

Why put ANYTHING in the game, then? Your logic here is flawed. Why put grappling hooks? Why put world quests? Why raids, dungeons, pvp, crafting, more than 1 class?

Clearly a non-insignificant portion of the playerbase likes and wants flying, as evidenced by Blizzard reversing their decision to never have flying ever again. Whether it's because of flying mounts from the cash store, or simple convenience.

It's like your brain turns off the moment you hear the world flying. You're so biased you're not even willing to consider the possibility that it could be implemented in a way that improved the game, or at least doesn't detract from it. Maybe you should think about why that is.

[hyphnos]

1. Casting judgement based on alpha and then sitting on forums pretending you have any idea what the live game is like ... indeed ... can't make yourself look more stupid than that. Even a deep alpha like Legion changed a lot from alpha to live.

2. Giving you the benefit of the doubt for a moment and assuming you would also hate live, based on your alpha experience ... then W T F are you doing hanging around forums complaining and arguing about things? The game isn't changing for a couple of years. If you hate it, then move on and come back in two years if you like the next expac. Nothing more annoying than some wallflower who doesn't even play sitting around complaining about something they haven't experienced. Talk about lack of respect for your own time and life. I can deal with current players debating what they like and don't like ... but man lol ... some dude who hasn't even played live trying to argue points about the game? And taking yourself seriously? GG.

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE, has to play Legion to understand what playing WoW with or without flight is like. This thread is about a game that for many many years has had flight and areas without flight and levelling with flight and levelling without flight so owning or playing Legion means exactly squat. WoW without flight results in a massive increase in how much time you spending going to places to do things relative to the time spent actually doing them and nothing about Legion changes that and believe it or not, some of us aren't willing to play a game when too much time goes into transit versus gameplay.

[Mafic]

1. Casting judgement based on alpha and then sitting on forums pretending you have any idea what the live game is like ... indeed ... can't make yourself look more stupid than that. Even a deep alpha like Legion changed a lot from alpha to live.

2. Giving you the benefit of the doubt for a moment and assuming you would also hate live, based on your alpha experience ... then W T F are you doing hanging around forums complaining and arguing about things? The game isn't changing for a couple of years. If you hate it, then move on and come back in two years if you like the next expac. Nothing more annoying than some wallflower who doesn't even play sitting around complaining about something they haven't experienced. Talk about lack of respect for your own time and life. I can deal with current players debating what they like and don't like ... but man lol ... some dude who hasn't even played live trying to argue points about the game? And taking yourself seriously? GG.

This is the flight thread not a thread about trying to convince me to like Legion.

- - - Updated - - -

NO ONE and I mean NO ONE, has to play Legion to understand what playing WoW with or without flight is like. This thread is about a game that for many many years has had flight and areas without flight and levelling with flight and levelling without flight so owning or playing Legion means exactly squat. WoW without flight results in a massive increase in how much time you spending going to places to do things relative to the time spent actually doing them and nothing about Legion changes that and believe it or not, some of us aren't willing to play a game when too much time goes into transit versus gameplay.

Exactly.

We know how the game is like without flight. We don't need to play the game to know how it is and WoD was an example of how it was failed endeavor to remove flying from the game completely.

[Mafic]

You are assuming the game has not changed. It has. And so yes, to offer an opinion on the 'current' game requires you to play it. Otherwise, you just come off like a bitter forum troll bent on bashing something you haven't tried.

As well, I keep seeing the wank argument that the game is incomplete without flying. Vanilla didn't have flying. That's the core game. Everything else was an addon. So anyone that can't play without flying isn't somebody who was ever into the true base game. And if that's you, then I've got no time for you. You are merely a tourist who hopped in at some point when flying was introduced and now thinks it's their right to have. Core WoW launched without flying and did quite well for a long time without it. So if anything, the current state of flying is nothing more than a return to it's roots. And if you can't get that, well then ...

I'll now exit this convo and let you debate things you've not experienced while I go continue my exploration of an amazing expansion. Enjoy your day on the forums.

The game hasn't changed from WoD ----> Legion without flight. The only difference is the flight whistle which is questionable at best in the first place. You are going to have to accept that there are players out there that will not play WoW at level cap without flying.

I am one of them as I chose cheesecake over Legion for the holiday season as my bro offered to buy Legion and I declined. Cheesecake means more to me at the moment that a flightless Legion.

Flight is an important part of my decision to buy WoW expansions from this point forward with the way it was handled in Wod.

[Dhrizzle]

And all of the reason where toroughly demonstrated as being Bullshit. Moving on.

People have explained why they disagree with those reasons leading to a better or more enjoyable game. That is based on subjective opinions, your opinions are not facts. No matter how much you may consider something to be bullshit, other people who disagree do not have to accept that as an objective truth.

the "other poeple" in this case are the Blizzard devs. In case you are wrong, What makes them spiteful, irrational and morons is tha fact that they not only took and defended spiteful, irrational and moronic actions, but now are doubling down on them.

Guess what those actions amek them?

Just because someone has a different opinion on how the game should be developed does not make them spiteful, irrational morons.

"Insulting" WoW devs= insulting YOU.

What a... remarkable... insight

I did not say you were insulting me, I said you were insulting people whilst hypocritically accusing others of not being able to appreciate that different people have different tastes.

Amazing!

I took the time to make a detailed list of exactly what you were projecting in that particular moment (none of them was bitterness, by the way)...

And you, somehow, interpreted that as accusing of bitterness?!?

Lets look back at the exchange for a moment,

You're just bitter about the game not being developed to your exact specifications so you're creating accusations of spite instead of accepting that not everyone shares you're taste.

Do you have something more substantial than projection?

It was pretty simple - I said you were bitter, you said I was projecting, I said I had nothing to be bitter about.

AS before, those claims were demonstrated to be bullshit way more than once. Flight does not give access to any gear/toy/power a ground mount-user can´t have, and the Xpack with the greatest burnout was WoD, the flightless Xpack.

Are you saying that flight doesn't give you the power of flight? It doesn't make it capable for you to ignore any obstacles on the ground, either mobs or terrain, that you don't feel like engaging with? Are the people saying that flight would allow them to consume content in a way that they prefer wrong because it doesn't give them that ability? Wouldn't that make the whole "pro-flight" position pointless?

Also you're conveniently ignoring the fact that WoD has a massive influx of subs that dropped off quickly, without those its losses weren't much steeper than Cata or MoP. You're also ignoring how most complaints about WoD come down to the lack of meaningful content after the first couple of months.

Looking at sub numbers you can paint whatever picture you want and attribute it to flight being present or not. Notice how TBC had much slower rate of gain than Vanilla, that must be because of flight! Cata is the first expansion to show steady sub losses - that must be because it had flight from the start! MoP also lost subs at a fast rate, then they stabilised with the introduction of the no-flight islands - it must be because of flight!

They were forced to put it back once. I am confident that they´ll do so again.

Have you forgotten what the current status of flight in WoW is? The system they were "forced" to is the one they're using for Legion, flight introduced later in the expansion tied to an achievement. If that's the "pro-flight victory" you're hoping for you can relax, you've already won!

Kaliri birds in Skettis and canons in Ogri-la added some spice.

We've been over the ways to make flying interesting, from changing how flying works to changing how terrain and encounter design works. It amazes me that you'll promote grappling hooks as being interesting, but refuse to be open to other ways of improving the open world that includes flight.

Kaliri and Ogri'la cannons were gimmicks that had (in my opinion) overstayed their welcome long before the expansion ended. Besides, do you think the "pro-flight" people who can't handle things like tree roots and complain about being attacked by "pointless" mobs would be happy to have an airborne equivalent?

[Mafic]

Kaliri birds in Skettis and canons in Ogri-la added some spice.

We've been over the ways to make flying interesting, from changing how flying works to changing how terrain and encounter design works. It amazes me that you'll promote grappling hooks as being interesting, but refuse to be open to other ways of improving the open world that includes flight.

Look at BC and WotLK to see amazing integration of flight with quests and exploring quest objective. It is almost like Blizzard has regressed and is happy with the maze like designs of Suramar or the cramped High Mountain zone which is not even realistic in real life but I will overlook that immersion breaker since it is a game afterall.

Flying has always had potential and Blizzard experimented with it a lot in WotLK but since then they have taken the lazy route and expected players to accept ground travel as the only way through a maze design.

Flight is what opened the door for a seemless continuous feel to a world as you can see zone transitions very easily compared to a ground mount.

[manypillars]

Flying isn't an integral part of the game to warrant revamping. Nobody has picked up WoW because they heard you can fly in it. So why put so much focus on an aspect of the game that only some people drool over, some people down right do not like, and the majority could give a shit about either way.

Flying is the reason I picked up WoW. A friend told me player controlled free flight was added in the then-new expansion, and sure enough it was advertised on the box which showed the image of a Blood Elf riding a Netherdrake. I still have the box, and the first feature listed on the back is "Pilot Flying Mounts".

Edit: Excuse me, on second look it's a Draenei on the dragon.

[SirCowdog]

Kaliri and Ogri'la cannons were gimmicks that had (in my opinion) overstayed their welcome long before the expansion ended. Besides, do you think the "pro-flight" people who can't handle things like tree roots and complain about being attacked by "pointless" mobs would be happy to have an airborne equivalent?

And grappling hooks and suramar teleporters aren't gimmicks? I only used those references because they were existing examples of how these things could be implemented into the game. I've also said in the past that they would probably need to be improved to meet current player expectations and the state of the game. The point is not to simply make flying irritating, but to have it improve the experience of the game. Simply throwing cannons or kaliri birds everywhere, with no sense to it, is just as bad as having the world be filled with useless dazing trash on the ground.

But having specific areas that use those things to create hazards that make a player think about how to approach it? Lets go back to the fortress example with a boss in it. Instead of just a wall and some trash that players have to navigate, and flying completely trivializes, now we've got walls with anti-air cannons on them, NPCs with grapples that pull a player in, and patrols of flying hazards that could potentially dismount. All of this AT THE QUEST AREA, and not just everywhere in-between.

I'm not a game designer, so I'm sure Blizzard could come up with something better than that. And that type of thing doesn't need to be everywhere. Just often enough to make flying worthwhile. Mix in some zones and areas where flying is disabled, and use mechanics like the grappling hook and the teleporter network there. We can all have our cake and eat it too. These concepts are not mutually exclusive. The game CAN handle having both types of content.

EDIT: Oh...and I feel that this obsession Blizzard has with ground-only has DEFINITELY overstayed its welcome.

[klaxce]

I most certainly haven't read this threadnought, but just wanted to say that I'm really happy with no-flying Legion.

I feel that Stormheim has too much sporadic elevation change while playing a class that doesn't have a built in slow-fall/glide mechanic (non-engineer Enhance Shaman), but otherwise I enjoy navigating the world, learning shortcuts, and taking (finding!) flight-paths to cover larger distances. Broken Isles isn't that large of a "continent", and it can be traversed fairly quickly with flight path + running. Flying would make it feel really small.

However, I completely feel for the people who won't play WoW without flying, since I've also unsubbed due to issues I disagreed with, even if I disagree with you about this.

[Connll]

People have explained why they disagree with those reasons leading to a better or more enjoyable game. That is based on subjective opinions, your opinions are not facts.

And the "why" was not only demonstrated to be wrong, but (way) more often than not, its was based on hyperbole, misrepresentation, and outright lies. An example of popular misrepresentation: anti-fliers often argue that flight would ruin the leveling experience. No pro-flier asked for Flight before max level.

Just because someone has a different opinion on how the game should be developed does not make them spiteful, irrational morons.

When people (the devs, in this case) take spiteful, irrational and moronic actions, it DOES make them spiteful, irrational morons.

You seen to have a loose grasp of what opinions are. You keep confusing it with other concepts.

I did not say you were insulting me

Your words,as taken from page 508, post nº 10147:

t's laughable considering you're accusing me of not considering that people might like something different whilst throwing out those insults.

...
...
Yeah

I said you were insulting people whilst hypocritically accusing others of not being able to appreciate that different people have different tastes.

I===> want a game where everyone can play according to whatever way they prefer;
You===> want a game where everyone is forced to play the way you prefer.

Yep... I am totally not "able to appreciate that different people have different tastes."

It was pretty simple - I said you were bitter, you said I was projecting, I said I had nothing to be bitter about.

And I countered by pointing that you have a reason to be bitter; pro-fliers are still active in this thread, demonstrating all the time how no-flight is bad for the game.

And you simply can´t stand that.

Are you saying that flight doesn't give you the power of flight?

Does Flight increase my HP or DPS?

It doesn't make it capable for you to ignore any obstacles on the ground, either mobs or terrain, that you don't feel like engaging with

Doesn´t that make Druids, Mages and Rogues against the WoW Devs visions?

Are the people saying that flight would allow them to consume content in a way that they prefer wrong because it doesn't give them that ability?

They would be able to consume the content in whatever way they prefer. Do you even understand that this is a good thing?

Wouldn't that make the whole "pro-flight" position pointless?

No.

Also you're conveniently ignoring the fact that WoD has a massive influx of subs that dropped off quickly, without those its losses weren't much steeper than Cata or MoP.

Yep. a lot of people fell for the hype, the potential and the false promises. (hello, epic quest to enable Flight at 6.1)

WoD lost about 5,5Million subs in about 6 months. Thats approximately the amount of subs they lost since WoTLK to Pandaria. They took 6 months to lose what they once lost in 6 years.

You're also ignoring how most complaints about WoD come down to the lack of meaningful content after the first couple of months.

You are conveniently forgetting that, of all of the complaints about WoD, only ONE caused the devs to reverse their decision. An event that only happened about 3 or 4 times in Blizzard entire existance as a company.

Take a guess about what that complaint was.

Looking at sub numbers you can paint whatever picture you want and attribute it to flight being present or not.

Yes, I am sure a game bleeding subs left and right is THE picture of a healthy game.

Notice how TBC had much slower rate of gain than Vanilla, that must be because of flight!

Yeah, the expansion which use Flying mounts as a selling point! The one regarded as one of the best expansions!

Try again, maybe?

Cata is the first expansion to show steady sub losses - that must be because it had flight from the start!

Yep. That surely has nothing to do with the issue people were complaining in the forums at the time, like hard heroics and questionable content.

Certainly the reason wha the one thing NO ONE was complaining about. Flight.

Have you forgotten what the current status of flight in WoW is? The system they were "forced" to is the one they're using for Legion, flight introduced later in the expansion tied to an achievement. If that's the "pro-flight victory" you're hoping for you can relax, you've already won!

So, a "victory" means you can´t have what you fought for until years later at a point you won´t even want to use it anymore.

I won´t ask you what you consider a failure.

Kaliri and Ogri'la cannons were gimmicks that had (in my opinion) overstayed their welcome long before the expansion ended. Besides, do you think the "pro-flight" people who can't handle things like tree roots and complain about being attacked by "pointless" mobs would be happy to have an airborne equivalent?

Well, in *my* opinion, those turrets were a welcome addition and I was happy to see them back in Krasarang Wilds when I was attacking the Horde base.

Do you know why? because when I actually went there, they were relevant: Those turrets were guarding the quest area.

Now the mantid, Mogu and other crap infesting the forest surrounding the fortress? those are not relevant. Not quest-related. Not worth my time once I quested in that area when leveling.

[Grimnakh]

One reason I like flying is that it allows Blizz to design more expansive flat zones that dont necc have something in every nook and cranny, which is more immersive imo.

[SirCowdog]

I most certainly haven't read this threadnought, but just wanted to say that I'm really happy with no-flying Legion.

I feel that Stormheim has too much sporadic elevation change while playing a class that doesn't have a built in slow-fall/glide mechanic (non-engineer Enhance Shaman), but otherwise I enjoy navigating the world, learning shortcuts, and taking (finding!) flight-paths to cover larger distances. Broken Isles isn't that large of a "continent", and it can be traversed fairly quickly with flight path + running. Flying would make it feel really small.

However, I completely feel for the people who won't play WoW without flying, since I've also unsubbed due to issues I disagreed with, even if I disagree with you about this.

I'd be curious to know how you feel in a month or two. Make a note to get back to us?

[Thimagryn]

Why put ANYTHING in the game, then? Your logic here is flawed. Why put grappling hooks? Why put world quests? Why raids, dungeons, pvp, crafting, more than 1 class?

Because if someone were to make a point that they're not buying the expansion because of one feature, they're focused way too much on that one aspect.

To prioritize the necessity of one aspect over all other content is itself a bias. Many people here are indifferent to lack of flying because there's other stuff in the expansion worth caring about. Flying is low on many people's lists, far lower than world quests, raids, dungeons, pvp etc. And that other menial stuff you bring up like grappling hooks - no one is going to unsub because of lack of Grappling Hooks. If they were, it would be their personal reason rather than as a 'problem with the game'.

Flying itself has proven itself to be a nuisance to game design. Blizzard has been pretty damn clear with that. If they can find a way to integrate it in their design, then we'll see it come back earlier in the process. But as it stands, it's pretty clear that they're not interested in holding it off as long as possible. Sucks for people, sure, but they can't please everyone.

I'm sure there's some people who wanted Demon Hunters who have also unsubbed because they didn't think Blizzard designed them the way they wanted them to be. To them, lack of a 'faithful' Demon Hunter class is a problem with the game. Doesn't mean it's not legitimate, but it doesn't mean Blizzard needs to change their ways either. I definitely can't speak for the people who feel this strongly about Demon Hunters, but if they want to be vocal about it, that's fine. Expecting Blizzard to change things though is borderline laughable.