Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[ymirsson]

People are downplaying the FUCK out of bad rolls in this thread, acting like they get 6 buff rolls every boss and it's not that bad, shaming people for saying they have to reroll 5-6 times on a boss fight. It's laughable.

And you do the opposite. Congratz.

[cordrann]

Not sure if anyone has brought this up but..

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1314953135

Tldr: barring any nerfs, relics that give Fatebringer or Fate's Thirst should be used over anything.

Personally, I got 2 850 and a 845 on Fortune's Strike, Fortune Strikes (terrible naming I know lol) and Fortune's Boon- with possible fixes coming and raiding so close, I'm not going to swap to lower iLVL relics but this will be something I'm monitoring going forward.

I'm having a really hard time believing those numbers. Fate's Thirst is good for obvious reasons, but Fatebringer seems drastically over valued.

[Roiids]

People are downplaying the FUCK out of bad rolls in this thread, acting like they get 6 buff rolls every boss and it's not that bad, shaming people for saying they have to reroll 5-6 times on a boss fight. It's laughable.

In my experience you roll 1 buff multiple times in a row way more than starting with 2 good buffs or the rare 3.

[Sephiroso]

In my experience you roll 1 buff multiple times in a row way more than starting with 2 good buffs or the rare 3.

You remember the bad way more than the good. Just human nature.

[SSJones]

In my experience you roll 1 buff multiple times in a row way more than starting with 2 good buffs or the rare 3.

You'll roll 1 buff, what, ~58% of the time? So you're right, you will.

[Geehbee]

Are those sims on simcraft right? Sitting a dummy for 5mins I can do ~210k with good rolls. How the fuck are we supposedly doing 254k min?

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My swing is more like 190-240. I don't see how 254 is min.

Do you have run through relics, flasks, popping potions and optimal trinkets and secondary stats? Like most of us, probably not, so dont worry too much about it.

[Azyurel]

I definitely feel like there's exaggeration on both sides of this RtB argument. It's mostly feast or famine on dungeon bosses. You rather get the good rolls or you don't and you find the better of the 1 buffs you can deal with. Generally if I get crap rolls and I land on True Bearing I roll with it, because I can generally squeeze out two ARs in a single boss fight with moderately geared players. Or if we're in a crazy DPS group, get Shark Infested Waters and roll hard with CotD and pray for 2+ after burst.

I've not been too upset with my numbers overall. RNGesus is generally kind over a large sample rate.

[Deleted]

You remember the bad way more than the good. Just human nature.

35% chance to roll 2 buffs.

You will roll 1 buff most of the time.

Logic doesnt apply to Sephiroso however

[Sephiroso]

35% chance to roll 2 buffs.

You will roll 1 buff most of the time.

Logic doesnt apply to Sephiroso however

Logic says rolling 1 buff in a single roll happens more often than not. Logic says rolling 1 buff 6 times in a row very rarely happens. Don't put words in my mouth. I merely said all of you crying about rolls merely remember the bad more than the good.

[Azyurel]

35% chance to roll 2 buffs.

You will roll 1 buff most of the time.

Logic doesnt apply to Sephiroso however

Can't really argue with that 35% at all.

I think a lot of the complaints I've seen are on the RNG of dungeon boss fights which generally last a minute or so. Parses we've seen on simcraft and other sim sources are sampled over several minutes. Median DPS in most of these fights in near perfectly optimized gear with flasks, food, and lust stands around 316k and a minimum of 256k. Even at minimum and if RNG hated us Outlaw would still be middle of the pack in terms of the other DPS.

I will reserve my full and final judgment until I can actually start parsing myself on bosses and see how my own luck and ability measure up to how my gear should sim.

[Roiids]

Can't really argue with that 35% at all.

I think a lot of the complaints I've seen are on the RNG of dungeon boss fights which generally last a minute or so. Parses we've seen on simcraft and other sim sources are sampled over several minutes. Median DPS in most of these fights in near perfectly optimized gear with flasks, food, and lust stands around 316k and a minimum of 256k. Even at minimum and if RNG hated us Outlaw would still be middle of the pack in terms of the other DPS.

I will reserve my full and final judgment until I can actually start parsing myself on bosses and see how my own luck and ability measure up to how my gear should sim.

Agreed. On longer fights I really think we will perform better. With the RNG i'm just praying they don't nerf us a bunch before the raids start. In that interview they said they wanted to bring up some underperforming specs before raids. My hope is its that and not nerfing others.

I don't mind the RNG if I can still get decent numbers most of the time and then poop numbers occasionally and god numbers occasionally.

[Azyurel]

Agreed. On longer fights I really think we will perform better. With the RNG i'm just praying they don't nerf us a bunch before the raids start. In that interview they said they wanted to bring up some underperforming specs before raids. My hope is its that and not nerfing others.

I don't mind the RNG if I can still get decent numbers most of the time and then poop numbers occasionally and god numbers occasionally.

Well luckily, if current sims are accurate, we're still 39k behind arms and 16k behind Feral and 30k above Assassination, so I'm hoping that they don't just come swinging hard when we're not sitting comfortably in the #1 spot on single target.

[Deleted]

Logic says rolling 1 buff in a single roll happens more often than not. Logic says rolling 1 buff 6 times in a row very rarely happens. Don't put words in my mouth. I merely said all of you crying about rolls merely remember the bad more than the good.

In my experience you roll 1 buff multiple times in a row way more than starting with 2 good buffs or the rare 3.

To this you said that he remembers wrong.

To this i say, no he doesnt. Rolling 1 buff 2 times in a row happens statistically more then rolling 2 good buffs.

I'm not putting words im your mouth, just correcting you.

[Master Guns]

Literal, direct quote from Icy Veins:

. Ability Priority List

Activate Blade Flurry Icon Blade Flurry if more than one target is present and stacked.
Cast 5+ Combo Point Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones until you have at least 2 buffs.
Maintain Ghostly Strike Icon Ghostly Strike debuff if talented.
Activate Adrenaline Rush Icon Adrenaline Rush.
Activate Icon Curse of the Dreadblades.
Cast Marked for Death Icon Marked for Death (when talented) if you have 0-1 Combo Points.
Cast Death from Above Icon Death from Above (when talented) if you have 5+ Combo Points and Adrenaline Rush Icon Adrenaline Rush is not active.
Cast Run Through Icon Run Through at 5+ Combo Points.
Cast Pistol Shot Icon Pistol Shot if you have an Opportunity Icon Opportunity proc and you have 4 or less Combo Points.
Cast Saber Slash Icon Saber Slash to generate Combo Points.

Furthermore, at the bottom, it states:

The chance of receiving multiple buffs is as follows (taken from 1 million Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones casts in a simulation):

e
1 Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones Buff: 100.0% chance;
2 Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones Buffs: 35.4% chance;
3 Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones Buffs: 3.87% chance;
6 Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones Buffs: 1.54% chance.
The chance of receiving any of the 6 buffs individually on a Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones is the same — just slightly over 25% chance per buff (due to the chance of receiving multiple buffs).

Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones has significantly different gameplay implications than Slice and Dice Icon Slice and Dice had for Combat, or currently has for Outlaw. It is always worth recasting Roll the Bones Icon Roll the Bones until you have at least 2 active buffs.

The guide also says out of 1 million simulated rolls, the chance of getting a 6 roll RTB is 1.54%. Lol. You mother fuckers should play the lottery because there have been MANY people in this thread stating they get 6 rolls every fucking boss and that the RNG "isn't that bad". Lol.

Just gonna quote myself here since no one decided to look at what I posted, even though they're contradicting it.

[Ryker25]

Been lurking a long time, made an account just to post here.

There is no doubt RNG highly alters our DPS. But here are a few of my rules in no particular order to how I consistantly do 270k-330k on most bosses depending on rolls.

#1 Do not reroll on ST fights that are shorter than 1-2 minutes [im looking at you heroic/mythic dungeon bosses]
#2 SiW/True Bearing are what you are trying to fish for pre boss pull. SiW obviously beats TB, but you can easily get at LEAST 2 Adren. Rushes on a 1 minute fight.
#3 Try to have tanks pull before Alacrity falls.
#4 MfD mobs with low HP, spam RT. NEVER reroll on AoE packs.
#5 Do not Do not DO NOT SS on 5 CPs to get to 6. Infact im not even sure if Pistol shot proc while using the talent is correct to get from 5 to 6. Probably not. Not sure. Also not sure if GS is really better than PS proc talent. Whatever.
#6 You should Never be using pistol shot during AR CotD spam unless its a free proc and you are starting to be energy starved.

If I can think of anything else really tech I will post. But I am at work so when I play tonight Im sure I will remember ^^

Edit - ilvl 847 with No RT Relics *Sad Face*
Edit 2 - 35% Crit, 15% Vers. Trying to convert all mastery and haste to vers and crit via crafted gear this week.
Edit 3- - These numbers are not 6 buff Bloodlust 3 buff random heroic patchwerk numbers. This is just what I see spamming heroics or mythics with 1-2 friends. Even on the worst uptime no AoE fights im pulling 200k-220k. Maw of souls last boss or whatever. I have peaked somewhere at mid 400ks on some ST with 6 buffs and BL and sub 1 minute.

[Sephiroso]

To this you said that he remembers wrong.

To this i say, no he doesnt. Rolling 1 buff 2 times in a row happens statistically more then rolling 2 good buffs.

I'm not putting words im your mouth, just correcting you.

You and others crying about rolls aren't talking about just rolling 1 buff two times in a row. Don't try to change your qq tune now.

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Been lurking a long time, made an account just to post here.

There is no doubt RNG highly alters our DPS. But here are a few of my rules in no particular order to how I consistantly do 270k-330k Single Target depending on rolls.

#1 Do not reroll on ST fights that are shorter than 1-2 minutes [im looking at you heroic/mythic dungeon bosses]
#2 SiW/True Bearing are what you are trying to fish for pre boss pull. SiW obviously beats TB, but you can easily get at LEAST 2 Adren. Rushes on a 1 minute fight.
#3 Try to have tanks pull before Alacrity falls.
#4 MfD mobs with low HP, spam RT. NEVER reroll on AoE packs.
#5 Do not Do not DO NOT SS on 5 CPs to get to 6. Infact im not even sure if Pistol shot proc while using the talent is correct to get from 5 to 6. Probably not. Not sure. Also not sure if GS is really better than PS proc talent. Whatever.
#6 You should Never be using pistol shot during AR CotD spam unless its a free proc and you are starting to be energy starved.

If I can think of anything else really tech I will post. But I am at work so when I play tonight Im sure I will remember ^^

Edit - ilvl 847 with No RT Relics *Sad Face*

All good tips, but there's a few qq'ers in here that will continue to QQ and wont listen. They just blame rng and leave it at that, instead of playing smarter.

[SSJones]

Just gonna quote myself here since no one decided to look at what I posted, even though they're contradicting it.

This is meant for extended (5+ minute) raid bosses, and even then will be incorrect in some situations depending on what time on target you will have left on your buffs. It's a general rule to make things easier for players who are incapable of analyzing on the fly and reacting, as it will generally help them in raids. If you follow this blindly and reroll 6 times in a row on a 60-90 second fight, you don't have RNG to blame for your low DPS, but only yourself.

Sure, you'll get bad RNG once in a while, but it isn't the spec crippling event you seem to make it out to be. Or is your real complaint that the guides out there aren't nuanced and complicated enough to provide correct instruction for every fight and situation?

Edit: The 2+ rule will be more statistically true the longer the fight, and the greater your time on target during full 2+ buff duration. Lower those two things, and it is less accurate. Sims and guides like that are for providing general rules to follow as a statistical norm, right? You have to be able to recognize when they don't apply.

[Lorentz]

You guys don't need simulations to know probabilities. Math behind rolls

[wombats23]

Just gonna quote myself here since no one decided to look at what I posted, even though they're contradicting it.

emphasis on the very last sentence. also, i don't think anyone is saying they're getting lots of 6 rolls.

[Geehbee]

Just gonna quote myself here since no one decided to look at what I posted, even though they're contradicting it.

Ya man better keep rerolling until you get two+ buffs on those 30 second fights.