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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz1096 View Post
    Arena is actually enjoyable again
    The problem is everything outside arena is a boiling diarrhea and without removing half of the stuns and gap closers it's not going to get fixed.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Since when do customer preferences or satisfaction not matter? Customers have a right to demand a decent product when they have to pay an ongoing fee to continue using the product they've bought. Sure, Blizz can say..."if you don't like it then leave", but that isn't a great way to keep a large customer base in a sub-based game. Downhill sub numbers since Cata have borne that out.

    And since you mentioned it, "If you want PvP, play Overwatch." is exactly the strategy that I've thought they've gone to since they conceived HotS and OW...make WoW PvP suck and hope they'll jump to one or both of them. Many have, but that doesn't help the people who don't want a MOBA or FPS.
    Blaming declining subs on PvP is your first mistake. The second is thinking that PvP players account for more than 5-10% of subs. Blizzard doesn't care to make design decisions based around PvP. This has been obvious for 10 years.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    The problem is everything outside arena is a boiling diarrhea and without removing half of the stuns and gap closers it's not going to get fixed.
    To be honest, the only thing I'm not enjoying is World PvP. That area is completely dead due to phasing, champion abilities and tanks.

    BGs actually have rewards now with the prestige system, even though the gear currently sucks.

    I do agree that it sucks if you're a casual player though. A casual PvPer will never get anything other than garbage gear due to the rating requirement for better gear. I don't really care about negligible gear differences myself, but it seems like casual players do as it's their only form of progression. I don't really see a problem with stuns that everyone seems to be talking about, to be honest. I do see a problem with gap closers though. My own spec, Feral, has a stupid honor talent that gives rake a 10yard spammable leap. Shadowstrike also needs a nerf, and even though it's demon hunter's "thing", it's still damn annoying how much mobility they have. I don't even like playing pouncing strikes because it's fucking annoying and dumb. Add a cooldown to shadowstrike, remove pouncing strikes and sort out demon hunters. They're the main problems regarding gap closers at the minute.

  4. #184
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz1096 View Post
    Ignore caolela's posts. He's an off-topic poster that doesn't actually PvP, he just claims everyone who is high-rated is a cheater, apparently. Will just result in a derailed thread as you can't argue with someone that doesn't actually play the game.

    ---------------
    Yes, I actually played the game and PvPed Cata, MoP, and WoD but won't buy Legion because it's obvious garbage. When you show me that I'm wrong about cheating in the higher ranks and virtually the entire ladder, and as I've asked you many times but you've yet to show one example who played on a team without a cheater at some point from start of a season to end and got an actual clean title, maybe someone will consider you're something credible instead of yet another phony "Hero" who got called out and is still pissed off.

    Not to mention the threads on PvP forums here where myself, Kagthul, Mafic, Livevil, or others shot down your ridiculous posts and proved you to be clueless or posting BS.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Regalbeast View Post
    Blaming declining subs on PvP is your first mistake. The second is thinking that PvP players account for more than 5-10% of subs. Blizzard doesn't care to make design decisions based around PvP. This has been obvious for 10 years.
    I didn't blame declining subs solely on PvP, but you might have noticed that I was talking about customer issues in general. Nor did I say Blizz makes all of its decisions based around PvP.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2016-09-13 at 09:16 PM.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Yes, I actually played the game and PvPed Cata, MoP, and WoD but won't buy Legion because it's obvious garbage. When you show me that I'm wrong about cheating in the higher ranks and virtually the entire ladder, and as I've asked you many times but you've yet to show one example who played on a team without a cheater at some point from start of a season to end and got an actual clean title, maybe someone will consider you're something credible instead of yet another phony "Hero" who got called out and is still pissed off.

    Not to mention the threads on PvP forums here where myself, Kagthul, Mafic, Livevil, or others shot down your ridiculous posts and proved you to be clueless or posting BS.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I didn't blame declining subs solely on PvP, but you might have noticed that I was talking about customer issues in general. Nor did I say Blizz makes all of its decisions based around PvP.
    "Shot down" yet never responded to my replies. I guess if you don't reply that means you "won" an argument. I don't even see "Mafic" or "Livevil" appear in my notification history nor can I remember them. Then again, you are the master of baseless claims.

    Maybe if you actually PvPed you'd know who cheats and who doesn't. You provided no proof of "everyone on the ladder cheating" so I don't see how you "won" either. The fact I even had a mod message me about how retarded you were being was pretty funny. I'm not pissed off about you calling me a cheater without even playing on the same region, I'm pissed that you called the entire PvP community cheaters without any proof. Link you one player? Me. Oh wait, I don't count for some reason. Nor will anyone I link.

    Since he's a still believer of that claim, you can safely ignore this guy on this forum. I shouldn't of expected reasonable argumentation from a conspiracy theorist "PROVE TO ME THAT EVERYONE ON THE LADDER DOESN'T CHEAT" that's like saying "can you prove god doesn't exist?", you have the burden of proof. You made the claim.

    Won't be replying anymore so don't worry about derailing, I won't get any proof.

    Continue on.
    Last edited by Krusza; 2016-09-13 at 10:08 PM.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Yes, I actually played the game and PvPed Cata, MoP, and WoD but won't buy Legion because it's obvious garbage. When you show me that I'm wrong about cheating in the higher ranks and virtually the entire ladder, and as I've asked you many times but you've yet to show one example who played on a team without a cheater at some point from start of a season to end and got an actual clean title, maybe someone will consider you're something credible instead of yet another phony "Hero" who got called out and is still pissed off.

    Not to mention the threads on PvP forums here where myself, Kagthul, Mafic, Livevil, or others shot down your ridiculous posts and proved you to be clueless or posting BS.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I didn't blame declining subs solely on PvP, but you might have noticed that I was talking about customer issues in general. Nor did I say Blizz makes all of its decisions based around PvP.
    Good post.

    Let me add that there is less skill with the loss of utility and players just mongloid targets in arena now. So, now in Legion everyone just turbo cleaves to victory. Quite sad really.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Good post.

    Let me add that there is less skill with the loss of utility and players just mongloid targets in arena now. So, now in Legion everyone just turbo cleaves to victory. Quite sad really.
    If you didn't notice, you just wrote "good post" on something that claimed the entire rated PvP community cheats.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz1096 View Post
    If you didn't notice, you just wrote "good post" on something that claimed the entire rated PvP community cheats.
    Rated BG community at the top are cheaters for the most part which is why Bailomos and the rest brag about it all the time on the official forums.

    This is also why the rated arena community does NOT like the rated BG community.

    Blizzard for WoW has a very lax policy for cheaters compared to Overwatch.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Rated BG community at the top are cheaters for the most part which is why Bailomos and the rest brag about it all the time on the official forums.

    This is also why the rated arena community does NOT like the rated BG community.

    Blizzard for WoW has a very lax policy for cheaters compared to Overwatch.
    He was also talking about the arena ladder. He's also ignoring the fact he's only playing on one region. RBGs on EU are nowhere near as bad for cheating as they are on US. We don't have anything close to bailamos level.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Again, not hyperbole.

    It's not hyperbole to say the insignificant box contents are an insult. It's not hyperbole to say that needing 360 BGs to get 18k AP is quite excessive. Same for Marks of Honor and so on. It's not hyperbole to say RNG gear drops do not belong in PvP.

    What IS hyperbolic is trying to defend it as acceptable game design.

    It doesn't matter if the player numbers for PvP are smaller in relation to PvE - no group of players should have to put up with the shitfest that Legion PvP is shaping up to be. They've paid for the game like anyone else and expect quality content and have a right to demand it.

    Rave reviews? From who, the usual game site shills or the dragon slaying no-lifers who like endless grinds and killing the same scripted bosses 147 times each? Not so much from PvP'ers, except those that will benefit from a very skewed and cheat-ridden system.
    Riiiight.

    Well, one more to add to the ignore list. You have fun whining and crying and pitching a fit. I'm gonna go enjoy more Legion.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz1096 View Post
    To be honest, the only thing I'm not enjoying is World PvP. That area is completely dead due to phasing, champion abilities and tanks.

    BGs actually have rewards now with the prestige system, even though the gear currently sucks.

    I do agree that it sucks if you're a casual player though. A casual PvPer will never get anything other than garbage gear due to the rating requirement for better gear. I don't really care about negligible gear differences myself, but it seems like casual players do as it's their only form of progression. I don't really see a problem with stuns that everyone seems to be talking about, to be honest. I do see a problem with gap closers though. My own spec, Feral, has a stupid honor talent that gives rake a 10yard spammable leap. Shadowstrike also needs a nerf, and even though it's demon hunter's "thing", it's still damn annoying how much mobility they have. I don't even like playing pouncing strikes because it's fucking annoying and dumb. Add a cooldown to shadowstrike, remove pouncing strikes and sort out demon hunters. They're the main problems regarding gap closers at the minute.
    In my casual opinion, shadowstrike is the poster child of what is wrong with the prune in Legion. They got shadow step that was an iconic ability and a catalyst for a million different scenarios, they slapped Ambush on it, made it unable to target friendlies and they served it as Shadowstrike. Along with everything else that sub rogue lost in terms of gameplay options, only to get mongoloid damage and the assorted play style in return. So much fun, for real.

  12. #192
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz1096 View Post
    "Shot down" yet never responded to my replies. I guess if you don't reply that means you "won" an argument. I don't even see "Mafic" or "Livevil" appear in my notification history nor can I remember them. Then again, you are the master of baseless claims.

    Maybe if you actually PvPed you'd know who cheats and who doesn't. You provided no proof of "everyone on the ladder cheating" so I don't see how you "won" either. The fact I even had a mod message me about how retarded you were being was pretty funny. I'm not pissed off about you calling me a cheater without even playing on the same region, I'm pissed that you called the entire PvP community cheaters without any proof.

    Since he's a still believer of that claim, you can safely ignore this guy on this forum. I shouldn't of expected reasonable argumentation from a conspiracy theorist "PROVE TO ME THAT EVERYONE ON THE LADDER DOESN'T CHEAT" that's like saying "can you prove god doesn't exist?", you have the burden of proof. You made the claim.

    Won't be replying anymore so don't worry about derailing, I won't get any proof.

    Continue on.
    I provided a thread on cheating that I started during WoD that you're well aware of, so quit your lying. In that thread are several links to various info that proves cheating, and TONS more evidence can be found by anyone who bothers to search. Punks so unconcerned that they have gall to brag about their massive scumbaggery on Blizzard's own forums - shoving it right in their faces.

    It has gone on for years, and will continue when Legion S1 is underway.

    The guys I mentioned all had input to PvP threads here at some point, to which you had no credible reply. Nothing but the typical BS we've often seen from you.

    BTW, in the thread that we had our last little dust up (and was locked b/c of your shitpost) you never did explain how you got past all of those Russian hackers in EU, for example. Perhaps you can out-juke a computer kickbot/auto-dispel now, perfectly and repeatedly over dozens of matches (LOL); or you've discovered a way to tag FCs at impossible altitude in WSG/TP/EotS and shoot them down? Please teach us, O Senpai!

    Or, you can resort to the typical BS that other punks like ABN's lackeys, Bailamos, Bcostco and their ilk have always used, some of which you've done here already. GG.

    Give it a fucking break, son. You've been owned more times than a cheap hooker.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2016-09-13 at 10:33 PM.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    I provided a thread on cheating that I started during WoD that you're well aware of, so quit your lying. In that thread are several links to various info that proves cheating, and TONS more evidence can be found by anyone who bothers to search. Punks so unconcerned that they have gall to brag about their massive scumbaggery on Blizzard's own forums - shoving it right in their faces.

    It has gone on for years, and will continue when Legion S1 is underway.

    The guys I mentioned all had input to PvP threads here at some point, to which you had no credible reply. Nothing but the typical BS we've often seen from you.

    BTW, you never did explain how you got past all of those Russian hackers in EU, for example. Perhaps you can out-juke a computer kickbot/auto-dispel now, perfectly and repeatedly over dozens of matches (LOL); or you've discovered a way to tag FCs at impossible altitude in WSG/TP/EotS and shoot them down? Please teach us, O Senpai!

    Or, you can resort to the typical BS that other punks like ABN's lackeys, Bailamos, Bcostco and their ilk have always used, some of which you've done here already. GG.

    Give it a fucking break, son. You've been owned more times than a cheap hooker.
    None of them have ever directly replied to my posts. I looked at those threads and only one replied to me, who didn't respond to me after my reply. That doesn't seem like me being "owned"

    I've not been owned by anyone. You linked a few cheaters, how is that the entire ladder? Because someone agreed with you, that means I was "owned"? How come even one of the mods of this forum thinks you're a retard? You're like a 12 year old who pops a "your mum" joke and screams owned.

    Russian cheaters? Do you even play on EU? The last time I remember facing one of those was in S13. The last time we faced cheaters was in S15, when we actually beat them when they 5-capped us before the gates even opened in AB. There's a video of that one.

    Can you stop talking about shit you have no clue about and go back to the off-topic forums? You're talking about rated PvP but you've never done anything other than 1800 rated RBGs. It's like a raider who's only done LFR going into the raiding forums and crying about raiding being easy. I don't expect you to understand my posts when you've never even stepped into an arena or done a proper RBG. Can you just quit this game you supposedly hate so much? Please? Every thread you just go on about how PvP is dead and how everyone cheats, despite never even playing it. It's really frustrating. And stop referring to yourself as "we" when only 1 person on this entire website would agree with what you say.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    In my casual opinion, shadowstrike is the poster child of what is wrong with the prune in Legion. They got shadow step that was an iconic ability and a catalyst for a million different scenarios, they slapped Ambush on it, made it unable to target friendlies and they served it as Shadowstrike. Along with everything else that sub rogue lost in terms of gameplay options, only to get mongoloid damage and the assorted play style in return. So much fun, for real.
    They did it with quite a few specs. I'm happy my spec actually came out better, but I understand that a lot of specs, especially ret, came out bad from it. I actually can't believe what they've done to ret. It used to be a high skillcap class that's now one of the most mongo melee specs.
    Last edited by Krusza; 2016-09-13 at 11:00 PM.

  14. #194
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz1096 View Post
    None of them have ever directly replied to my posts.

    I've not been owned by anyone. You linked a few cheaters, how is that the entire ladder? Because some other nobodies agreed with you, that means I was "owned"? How come even one of the mods of this forum thinks you're a retard? You're like a 12 year old who pops a "your mum" joke and screams owned.

    Russian cheaters? Do you even play on EU? The last time I remember facing one of those was in S13.

    Can you stop talking about shit you have no clue about and go back to the off-topic forums? You're talking about rated PvP but you've never done anything other than 1800 rated RBGs. I don't go into the PvE forums talking about how easy raiding is when I've not done mythic.

    I think the same about a few mods here too, so I guess that makes us even. Except IDGAF

    We've been through this before ad nauseum. Stop pretending you've done anything remotely "special". You haven't. Anyone but noobs to Rated knows better.

    I guess it's safe to play on EU now that the Russkies and other tools there suddenly found Jesus since S13? Imagine that. LMAO.
    Last edited by Caolela; 2016-09-14 at 03:36 AM.

  15. #195
    But is this not what you people have always wanted? People have complained for years that they want a way for Blizzard to tune classes directly in PVP only, which they now have, and also for gear to not matter in PVP, or matter very little and this is very much so the case. The season hasn't even started yet so they haven't had a reason to really change anything, news flash people world PVP and BGs don't matter, they are for fun.

    The strict PVP only community complains for years and years that you don't want gear to matter in PVP but then bitch when they don't have PVP gear to get. What actual sense does that make, this is what you asked for; a more balanced and even playing field, especially for somebody just starting up. People will find every excuse under the sun to why they lost an arena match other than the simple fact they you may just be bad, or you got outplayed.

    I'm sorry but you get out of this game what you put in, and that requires time. It's just like anything else in life, you don't just see random idiots with zero experience and time placed into playing something like a guitar and shredding away like a rock god the first time they pick up a guitar.

  16. #196
    World PVP... Only a couple of world PVP quests actually have any pvp at all. The ones in the towers are PVE quests basically. My friend runs his resto druid last night as a fresh 110. He gets wrecked by every solo melee in sight. Despite the fact as a WW monk I got easy revenge almost every time. It's not at all what was advertised. Undergeared healers (out in world) are so useless we we laughing about it. The good is I get 840s from the quests.

    BGs... Way too bursty. Many classes lost CC and defensives. What else can you expect?

    Arena... don't know yet. I hope healers are viable, esp, since games with a healer teammate (should) take longer.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanson View Post
    news flash people world PVP and BGs don't matter, they are for fun.
    Problem is they aren't fun because of Blizzard's failed attempt at balancing this greeeeeaaaat game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanson View Post
    you don't just see random idiots with zero experience and time placed into playing something like a guitar and shredding away like a rock god the first time they pick up a guitar.
    But that's an accurate depiction of Havoc Demon Hunters in 2v2 at the moment.
    Last edited by Nerovar; 2016-09-13 at 11:52 PM.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Regalbeast View Post
    Blaming declining subs on PvP is your first mistake. The second is thinking that PvP players account for more than 5-10% of subs.
    Until the release of LFR, the number of people who played PvP at the end-game 'seriously' was about 3x higher than the number of people who did PvE (going by Armory datamining of end-game achievements).

    Something like ~43% of the players had non-trivial PvP achievements (25,000 CQ achievement for the season was used as a benchmark)....

    about 15% had ANY end-game boss kill achievements that happened while the content was relevant.

    That went up to... the high 30s with the introduction of LFR, but the number of people who PvPed, even in Legion, as their primary end-game advancement, far outstripped PvE.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    In my casual opinion, shadowstrike is the poster child of what is wrong with the prune in Legion. They got shadow step that was an iconic ability and a catalyst for a million different scenarios, they slapped Ambush on it, made it unable to target friendlies and they served it as Shadowstrike. Along with everything else that sub rogue lost in terms of gameplay options, only to get mongoloid damage and the assorted play style in return. So much fun, for real.
    I would take one step further.

    Compare Legion Assassination versus Mut/prep of WotLK.

    Legion Assassination does not have:

    Blind
    Gouge
    Dismantle
    Prep
    Shiv

    Basically, Legion Assassination is tunnel vision while Mut/prep required set up and you could reset. Legion Assassination only has one vanish.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanson View Post
    But is this not what you people have always wanted? People have complained for years that they want a way for Blizzard to tune classes directly in PVP only, which they now have, and also for gear to not matter in PVP, or matter very little and this is very much so the case. The season hasn't even started yet so they haven't had a reason to really change anything, news flash people world PVP and BGs don't matter, they are for fun.

    The strict PVP only community complains for years and years that you don't want gear to matter in PVP but then bitch when they don't have PVP gear to get. What actual sense does that make, this is what you asked for; a more balanced and even playing field, especially for somebody just starting up. People will find every excuse under the sun to why they lost an arena match other than the simple fact they you may just be bad, or you got outplayed.

    I'm sorry but you get out of this game what you put in, and that requires time. It's just like anything else in life, you don't just see random idiots with zero experience and time placed into playing something like a guitar and shredding away like a rock god the first time they pick up a guitar.
    You are missing the point.

    Gear still matters but you as a player have no control over stats anymore. GG.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krassz1096 View Post
    He was also talking about the arena ladder. He's also ignoring the fact he's only playing on one region. RBGs on EU are nowhere near as bad for cheating as they are on US. We don't have anything close to bailamos level.
    I do not know a lot about EU but yeah Russ are complained a lot about win trading in rated play. Like you have a bunch of highly rated teams sitting on ratings and never playing against each other. And when they do, the ensure to win trade so they stay relatively on top.
    Last edited by Mafic; 2016-09-14 at 12:56 AM.

  20. #200
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    I do not know a lot about EU but yeah Russ are complained a lot about win trading in rated play. Like you have a bunch of highly rated teams sitting on ratings and never playing against each other. And when they do, the ensure to win trade so they stay relatively on top.
    The perplexing thing is, Krassz seems to be in damage control mode to bring this up and mention me in threads unrelated to it - threads that I hadn't commented to him or about him. At least twice now, maybe others I haven't noticed. Seems worried that the uninitiated might not think his 2400/Hero achieve is a thing after all. Well it really isn't given how corrupt Rated PvP is known to be - on both sides of the Pond.

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