Which DPS classes are doing well and which are not?

[SLSAMG]

"To the ground!" - Ghostcrawler

[Insomlol]

Well mage was top DPS all raids. Highmaul frost and arcane, BRF fire and HFC Arcane

Yeah sorry. I was referring to his comment mainly about Reaver. Worded it pretty badly.

[miffy23]

They suck on AOE packs, but are pretty amazing on boss and cleave fights. In my experience anyways.

Though they still don't touch WW/Outlaw/Havoc, but that goes for most casters.

^ this. Mass AoE packs don't matter one damn bit in high Mythic+ because guess what you won't be pulling 3 trash packs with skittish and other nonsense at +10 and higher. Sustain cleave and priority damage are far more important. Shadow excels at that.

People seem to think the Mythic+ timers are something you have to cheese like old CM. They are not. As long as you have the gear and can clear it in the regular amount of time expected (which is over 30 minutes for many), you are fine. Simply don't wipe and pull regular packs. Shadow, like Enh and some other specs, gets better on cleave and smaller packs the longer the mobs live. Right now the burst specs shine, but that's just for clearing trash on Mythic +0...like...seriously.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm curious whats your comp with these priests? If you're running with 2 spriests in 1 group of course they'll do well. Otherwise they suck on aoe trash, do ok on sustained aoe trash, and do pretty good on ST.

No, they're not in the same group, see other quote of mine for the rest.

[Dejnar]

Hi.

Since I might be the only Survival Hunter in the whole game I thought Id weigh in.
Honestly Ive yet to see another SV in my class hall. I kinda like that.

SV on ST is very strong, yes it's true. I have 845 ilvl and 20% versatility. (Best stat, not very sexy)
I usually do around 270-300 on ST. Except for Helya and that last boss in EoA because I cant hit them with my explosive trap.

AoE is weird. When we have Fury of the Eagle up with atleast 3 moongoose fury we are crazy strong.
Without it not very. So every other trash pull we win, and every other we come in last.

But SV is in a good spot and would be a great addition to any mythic+ dungeons and heroic raid groups. Despite the general opinion.

For the other classes I see Outlaw, DH and Monks topping meters. With the occasional fire mage and enhancement. Just as everyone else says!

Bye

[Okacz]

Hi.

Since I might be the only Survival Hunter in the whole game I thought Id weigh in.
Honestly Ive yet to see another SV in my class hall. I kinda like that.

SV on ST is very strong, yes it's true. I have 845 ilvl and 20% versatility. (Best stat, not very sexy)
I usually do around 270-300 on ST. Except for Helya and that last boss in EoA because I cant hit them with my explosive trap.

AoE is weird. When we have Fury of the Eagle up with atleast 3 moongoose fury we are crazy strong.
Without it not very. So every other trash pull we win, and every other we come in last.

But SV is in a good spot and would be a great addition to any mythic+ dungeons and heroic raid groups. Despite the general opinion.

For the other classes I see Outlaw, DH and Monks topping meters. With the occasional fire mage and enhancement. Just as everyone else says!

Bye

Being the only other SV hunter I gotta I like the spec, but lack of any sort of stun (not to mention AE one) kind of blows, especially in dungeons. Other classes have some this kind of stuff, so when a pack is dangerous they just chain stun, something SV can't do at all. And having decent AoE on only every 2nd pull is bad as well, especially since this AoE is comparable to what WW does with 1 button.

ST is pretty amazing with right RNG, so we have that

[Dejnar]

I agree that the lack of a stun is annoying.
Could use sticky bomb perhaps? Nah, screw that.

Anyway, I'm having tons of fun with it so far.

Nice to see another SV!
Well played sir.

[Raiju]

It's kinda crazy how they made an expansion that favors melee in basically every conceivable way.

Bringing up melee favouritism before raids are out, good start

- All the notable artifacts are melee ones. Ashbringer, Doomhammer, etc. Ranged artifacts are nameless crap that nobody heard of, and they just hang on your belt while melees get to swing theirs around and really represent their class fantasy. It's such a stark difference.

Felo'melorn? Scythe of Elune?

- The reinvented specs are melee ones. Unholy DK, enhancement shaman, survival hunter. It was pretty obvious leading into Legion that Blizzard had put way more effort into making the melee specs interesting and refreshing to play.

shadow priest? all hunter specs were reinvented really. demo lock? You aren't even trying to be unbiased here.

- The new class is melee only, like all the other classes that have been added post-launch. They've never added a new ranged class.

Your first (and only) legitimate argument, and it really doesn't matter at all since there were previously more ranged dps specs than melee - and many popular ideas that would at minimum have a melee spec (death knight, demon hunter)

- And of course, melee performs massively better overall.

If hunters and mages are also melee, sure. That being said ranged always have and will show a lot better in raids - melee have ALWAYS been better in dungeons then raids. Sorry, since wrath.

If you look at lists of both the specs that people think play better in Legion, and the hierarchy of DPS in simcrafts, melees top both to an overwhelming degree. Like 75% of the melee specs are in the top of both lists and 75% of the ranged specs are in the bottom. It's so absurdly lopsided. I've played WoW since vanilla and have played every expansion, and class balance has never been this bad when you factor in not just DPS performance but all the additional ways in which Legion blatantly favors melee.

Ah simcraft class compare, good argument. 10/10 despite it being woefully incomplete last I saw.

What does RDPS even have going for it now? There's basically no aspect of the game that it does better. Leveling as ranged is tedious because the mobs have so much health that you have to tank them half the fight or kite around like a madman.

leveling as melee is worse than ranged for sure - melees advantage is SOME classes have tank specs and tanks are the best levelers in legion.

[Rucktoe]

As a tank, I prefer DHs, WW, and BMs.

Acceptable are fire mages, ENH, unholy, outlaw.

I don't like warlocks and ferals. Locks ramp way to slow and ferals have garbage aoe. Ferals seem to be all building for single target and they are great at it, but in mythics single target boss fights are simple. Trash packs in the nightfallen zone are tougher than the mobs and having a feral or lock is like being a player down.

[LordAmbrosia]

inane babble

You can rationalize all you want, but the truth remains that when you ask people who the best DPS specs are they name almost entirely melee. When you look at logs the leaders are almost entirely melee. When you look at the sims, the leaders are almost entirely melee. Its a tuning issue, period.

[Donimic]

You can rationalize all you want, but the truth remains that when you ask people who the best DPS specs are they name almost entirely melee. When you look at logs the leaders are almost entirely melee. When you look at the sims, the leaders are almost entirely melee. Its a tuning issue, period.

are you new to this game? in order to be competitive in a real world scenario melee have to sim higher than ranged due to each role's percent up time. This game is not balanced around patchwerk as much as people like to pretend it is. and melee have always had the upper hand in 5-man. just chill and wait for raids, the order of the universe will right itself.

[LordAmbrosia]

are you new to this game? in order to be competitive in a real world scenario melee have to sim higher than ranged due to each role's percent up time. This game is not balanced around patchwerk as much as people like to pretend it is. and melee have always had the upper hand in 5-man. just chill and wait for raids, the order of the universe will right itself.

Lel. Let's pretend range don't lose DPS to move. Let's pretend there aren't range specific mechanics that melee don't need to worry about. Let's ignore all the data and just say its allll fine.

[Raiju]

Lel. Let's pretend range don't lose DPS to move. Let's pretend there aren't range specific mechanics that melee don't need to worry about. Let's ignore all the data and just say its allll fine.

Those range specific mechanics melee 'don't need to worry about' are the entire reason ranged are desired over melee in raids. It's a clear fucking indicator you don't actually organise raids or do any important jobs in raids if you don't understand this.

[LordAmbrosia]

Those range specific mechanics melee 'don't need to worry about' are the entire reason ranged are desired over melee in raids. It's a clear fucking indicator you don't actually organise raids or do any important jobs in raids if you don't understand this.

That's a good summary of the current balance. Range are brought to absorb mechanics while melee do the actual damage.

[Djriff]

That's a good summary of the current balance. Range are brought to absorb mechanics while melee do the actual damage.

Well we could have more fights like Lei Shen if we want to screw over melee.

[Dreamluck]

You can rationalize all you want, but the truth remains that when you ask people who the best DPS specs are they name almost entirely melee. When you look at logs the leaders are almost entirely melee. When you look at the sims, the leaders are almost entirely melee. Its a tuning issue, period.

It makes me sad that you don't even realize what you are saying here. You don't understand any of the fundamental ideas behind any of the things you are referencing. You just look at a graph you don't understand and get upset.

[Riistov]

Worst

Warlocks
Frost DK
Ret Paladin
Elemental Shamans

Elemental Shaman is pretty strong once you get around 845 with all three relics. I don't think I would put it in that category.

[ZeroWashu]

It's kinda crazy how they made an expansion that favors melee in basically every conceivable way.

- All the notable artifacts are melee ones. Ashbringer, Doomhammer, etc. Ranged artifacts are nameless crap that nobody heard of, and they just hang on your belt while melees get to swing theirs around and really represent their class fantasy. It's such a stark difference.

I just want to know why my Elemental spec has an unarmed weapon? It is near impossible to xmog but fortunately is not as obnoxious as the bear claws my druid got stuck with. I would not mind seeing a staff swirled around while casting, the range weapons should be part of every casting animation.

[LordAmbrosia]

It makes me sad that you don't even realize what you are saying here. You don't understand any of the fundamental ideas behind any of the things you are referencing. You just look at a graph you don't understand and get upset.

Oh ok, straight to the personal insults, in vapid meaningless form. I guess you are right, I'm too stupid to look at logs and figure out that 250 is a bigger number than 200. Hurr duurrr hurr.

What if they tripled the damage of melee on live? Would you say the same thing? Probably. Afterall, logs, sims, and personal experience are all meaningless right? You are a member of the modern cult of ignorance, that sweeps aside any data brought to you to protect your fragile ego and your feelies.

[Deleted]

UH DK is by the far the clunkiest, Haste for all its importance does not play enough of a role in minimising downtime. kills the damage. biggest drop off in all dps specs.

[Coldvibes]

UH DK is by the far the clunkiest, Haste for all its importance does not play enough of a role in minimising downtime. kills the damage. biggest drop off in all dps specs.

Soul Reaper + correct usage of DnD/SS fixes this problem almost always. If you have even more resource problems play Infected Claws but the better you play the more you realize IC is overkill.