Rerolling to WL - concerned

[Brusalk]

looking at beta logs, destro performed somewhat well. same goes for demo. Sure they are not viable if you are pushing for ranking or world 10+, but for normal mythic raiding guilds? especially with buffs/changes on the horizon?

A lot of those beta logs are probably from before they nerfed RB from 60% per stack down to 25% per stack. It's not going to translate to live 1:1, not to mention incoming hotfixes that'll change things.

[Deleted]

Look, I'm not saying that warlock utility is the best or that it couldn't use some improvement. I'm just saying that I think people are over-reactive saying there's "no utility"... No reason to get all bent out of shape...

WRT interrupts, it's very rare that interrupts are a major concern that the melee can't handle better anyways. I've never been in a raid group that didn't primarily use melee for interrupt rotation. Getting hung up on locks not having a baseline interrupt is a moot point, IMO. If we had Counterspell, would locks suddenly have great utility? I just feel like it's not a major problem, and there's much more pressing concerns...

I'm not getting bent out of shape, just disagreeing with the list of utility you reeled off for the reasons I mentioned and your argument that warlocks have an interupt, which is only marginally more truthful than claiming rogues have ranged dps. Are there more pressing concerns / is the interupt a major problem? No, but I'm not the one pretending warlocks bring anywhere close to the amount of utility as other classes, which seemed to be what you were suggesting when you said misdirection was the only real thing hunters / mages / rogues brought to the table.

Warlocks bring gateways and our innate tankiness if you're being generous. That's the utility we bring.
I suppose you could also argue they bring a dispel if destro is as dominant as people think it will be, though that depends on the imp actually working properly - I know it was plagued with issues ever since they changed things in what, the WOD pre-patch? I've had a fewsituations where it seems to have refused to dispel people, but it's working sometimes so I guess we have that if the healers aren't wanting to micro it.

Is our lack of utility a huge, crippling feature? Not really.
Would it be nice if our healthstones could at least heal as much as a potion? Yup.
Would it help when our output isn't spectacular? Yup again.

You just seemed to be arguing that we had a string of utility, which we don't.
Then seemed to suggest that mages / rogues / hunters don't dwarf what we do have, which seems like an astounding claim considering rogues have been super hard carrying a lot of fights with their utility in WOD, hunters have been a staple of doing shitjobs ever since they were kiting bosses out of the room in UBRS, and mages certainly don't struggle to bring plenty of utility unless they've really been pruned hard in Legion without me noticing.

[Deleted]

Long ramp up time for all specs.

Feels like you aint even playing warlock atm Destro have no ramp up time a solid burst that you can compete with any class during and off bl/tw.

[Deleted]

to op: Depends on what kind of guild you play tbh and what type player you are. If you have the logic that if its not allways #1 and op = not viable, then dont reroll to warlock atm. warlocks are fine, in the sence that you can carry your weight for sure and anybody who says that he is last in dps constantly and getting kicked because of performance is either bad at warlock or calling BS.

That aside if you are "forced" to reroll to a ranged, you dont have any preference on ranged playstyle and what matters to you is only getting a raidspot there are better choices atm. If you like warlock more than other classes and your guild needs ranged dps your fine with picking warlock.

[tithian]

Damage wise you will be ok-ish, middle of the pack or maybe a little lower, if you can stomach the class mechanics. However warlocks offer no real utility (healthstones are unused, battle rez is on a 3 second cast) and more importantly, classes that compete for the spot (mages and hunters essentially) do comparable or better dps, can cheese entire raid mechanics through immunities, and have superior mobility which enables them to do certain raid mechanics consistently (i.e. hunters on flamethrower duty in Brackenspore). With that in mind, bringing a warlock for reasons beyond 'we want at least 1 of each class' or 'he's been raiding with us since BC', does not make sense from the raid leader's perspective.

Re: Demonic Gateway - People classify it as useless, because it's extremely inefficient to use for anyone that cannot park his ass right next to the portal. Most classes are better off using their own superior mobility to move in/out of range, and they don't have to depend on the lock not derping when placing the portals. Also the gateway used to despawn when the lock died, is that still the case?

[Mhorrg]

Don't be concerned, it's a fun class with near limitless soloing potential and we can beat melee while standing still and just tanking their shots in PvP.

[Deleted]

Don't be concerned, it's a fun class with near limitless soloing potential and we can beat melee while standing still and just tanking their shots in PvP.

no offense but literally nobody cares about pvp anymore.

[Mhorrg]

no offense but literally nobody cares about pvp anymore.

Considering queue times are pretty short at the moment I'd say that's an objectively incorrect statement.

If no one cared no one would play.

I will never understand those players who limit themselves by only playing one third of the game.

[xpose]

looking at beta logs, destro performed somewhat well. same goes for demo. Sure they are not viable if you are pushing for ranking or world 10+, but for normal mythic raiding guilds? especially with buffs/changes on the horizon?

Warlocks are in a terrible slot, if you enjoy tormenting yourself then by all means roll one. They are fine when it comes to solo play but don't plan to do anything group related since no one wants warlocks for pugs

[Deleted]

Don't be concerned, it's a fun class with near limitless soloing potential and we can beat melee while standing still and just tanking their shots in PvP.

That's certainly not my experience on live. Damage in general is too high, but unless you're 1v1ing melee then you're not surviving anything.

[Deleted]

Warlocks are in a terrible slot, if you enjoy tormenting yourself then by all means roll one. They are fine when it comes to solo play but don't plan to do anything group related since no one wants warlocks for pugs

What kind of game do you play?

Pugs? Who the fuck still does pugs? what do you have a guild for?

casual solo player - the post

[Mhorrg]

That's certainly not my experience on live. Damage in general is too high, but unless you're 1v1ing melee then you're not surviving anything.

Damage is high, but when I've got healing coming in from several sources plus my own self healing plus the drain life damage debuff on my main target my life just kind of stops moving.

And 1v1 it's not even a contest, I don't even have to juke for counters. I can just eat the shadow lock for a few seconds and then go back to work.

[Deleted]

yeah, no damage AND no mobility AND no utility... we are like that cripple kid with a down syndrome that goes to a birthday party of some friend in school.

Infracted - Woz

what are u talking about, Demo is one of the strongest speccs in game, with great utility, gates and healthstones and combat ress. and yes you have mobility.
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/
maybe that crippled kid you where refering to was your own skills on warlock

[Deleted]

what are u talking about, Demo is one of the strongest speccs in game, with great utility, gates and healthstones and combat ress. and yes you have mobility.
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/

>noxxic

fuck off

[Succath]

>noxxic

fuck off

tbh i dont trust any guide/website as this point, they all state something else.

[Demonidze]

what are u talking about, Demo is one of the strongest speccs in game, with great utility, gates and healthstones and combat ress. and yes you have mobility.
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/
maybe that crippled kid you where refering to was your own skills on warlock

maybe you were so bad at sensing my sarcasm, sorry then .

[Irian]

Summons, healthstones, gateway, fear, soul stones, aoe stun (talent)... I just can't see how all that equates to "no utility."

No group outside of a world boss group is going to prioritize bringing a warlock because of summons, especially since they've restricted in-instance summoning.

Healthstones share a CD with potions and as far as I know heal for the same amount if not less.

Fear is not utility. You can't even use it as a CC anymore.

Death Knights, hunters, and non-tank druids (did they change rebirth to allow guardian druids to use it without shifting? if so then also tank druids) all have almost always more useful bress than us because ours is the slowest cast and the buff portion serves little purpose as you're generally going to want to save it for reactive use.

And Shadowfury, my god....Shadowfury is not only spec-specific to destruction and demonology but really goddamn atrocious. The fact that you list this tells me you don't really know how powerful and downright almost necessary Demon Skin is. For us to utilize Shadowfury it would have to be an absolute necessity to have an AoE stun and honestly there are a lot of classes with AoE stuns that do it way better than Shadowfury and don't have to lose a gigantic portion of their survivability.

Gateway, maybe. It can situationally be useful but it's honestly an ability I wish they'd trash by now considering how unwieldy and awkward it is. When it's good it ruins fights, when it's bad it's visual clutter in a raid environment. It's technically utility but in the absolute worst way, especially considering its short range and slow travel speed. The fact that it's our only true utility that another class doesn't do ten times better is almost insulting considering how genuinely bad it is.


Our utility is half assed compared to even mages, let alone other caster DPS who have things like powerful healing CDs, more effective battleress, self-battleress and most importantly actually have an effective AoE spell in all of their specs (except shadowpriests. sorry guys). I know comments like this are fairly common on a website like MMO-C, but I mean it right now when I say that there is absolutely no reason not to bring a mage over a warlock if you don't need the utility, or a balance druid if you do.

OP, do not roll a warlock right now. Unless you want to gamble with the fact that attention has been brought to how atrocious our design is and potential future buffs (don't do this), this class is pretty featureless right now and subjectively just not very fun either. We didn't even get new animations except for non-Codexed Destruction. Play a mage. If you want to avoid FotM go Arcane because it's totally viable, if you want to be rewarded for your patience with awesome damage later on in the expansion and do awesome cleave go Shadow Priest (seriously it's going to scale pretty crazily), if you want utility go Balance, or if you want to join the party of effortless 400k burst go fire mage. Just don't go warlock right now.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Katjezz I did perfectly fine during alpha / beta raid testing. Locks are a tiny bit under tuned at the moment, but mechanically they're fine.

I'd be surprised if we don't see buffs in the coming tuning pass considering the heat on the forums and blizzard dedicating an entire section of the Q&A to locks, but really they're fine. They don't look amazing in dungeons right now when you can just mass pull things and aoe them down but that's not how raids go.

The hyperbole is very much hyperbole. Though word of advice, stick to destro for the most part or at the very least stay away from aff.

[Alienshroom]

Warlock damage isn't nearly as bad as you people make it out to be. Gateway is still useful. It's getting obnoxious at this point.

You could try reading the thread. You wound have found out that most people who posted before you actually posted genuine criticisms in a constructive manner.

[xpose]

What kind of game do you play?

Pugs? Who the fuck still does pugs? what do you have a guild for?

casual solo player - the post

So you do every single thing as a guild? Grats if you can find guild players for every single moment you want to do something. The rest of the population utilizes custom games to get things done and no one wants to group with locks.