No automated group finder for Mythic is a problem.

[cFortyfive]

You can try all you want to convince me about it being a valid reasoning i would never accept "exclusivity" a good thing.

Of course not because you are a terribad pleb and that's fine. Don't act though as if doing mythic content was outrageously rewarding at this juncture. The time invested to reward level was always terrible in comparison to other games but with even five man instances probably ending up as the better way to gear up that's hardly a valid today.

[TheFuse]

Honestly, I think Mythics should have an automated group finder if they're supposed to be the "new" heroics. Make people have to walk and form their own groups for Mythic+.

[Virond]

With the addition of the group finder tool, it has never been easier to find a group or start one yourself. I never ask anyone to link their achievements for mythics, I'm generally just looking for a particular item level and tons of people sign up for my groups but of course I receive more DPS applications than I can bring. If you keep getting rejected, start your own group. It's easy and there's a lot of interest right now.

My honest opinion is that the group finder tool is so useful that they could replace LFR with it. This seems especially pertinent considering Ghostcrawler's most recent comments about his regrets with LFR.

[Deleted]

I don't even want to do Mythics, but quests are sending me there so I have no choice. I have 836 ilvl and when I try to find a group here's what happens: "link achievement or GTFO". Right.
Second option would be going in as a tank, as my class has a tanking spec, but I don't know the "things to do" and certainly won't learn them by not going there. I did play hardcore a loooong time ago and know reading about it is not enough.

The only reason I want to go there is for the story, and, well, I can't. Looks like Legion was nice for two weeks only.

How about start you own group? Dont care if you dont want deal with others as leader it is your excuse nothing els. If you want form your own group you cant blame anyone than yourself for not be able to do mythic.

[FobManX]

I'm fine with it. I kinda like having to actually go to the dungeon. With guild/friend groups its no problem at all, but I can understand the LFG generation having an issue with it.

[Dilbon]

No group finder for mythic is not a problem, but having to do mythics for quests is. Questing is the single player experience in this game and one should be able to do all of it without premade groups, either soloing or joining a queue (heroic dungeons and LFR). No mythic dungeons, no normal+ raids.

[Deleted]

I don't even want to do Mythics, but quests are sending me there so I have no choice. I have 836 ilvl and when I try to find a group here's what happens: "link achievement or GTFO". Right.
Second option would be going in as a tank, as my class has a tanking spec, but I don't know the "things to do" and certainly won't learn them by not going there. I did play hardcore a loooong time ago and know reading about it is not enough.

The only reason I want to go there is for the story, and, well, I can't. Looks like Legion was nice for two weeks only.

What

i''ve not seen anyone at all asking for achievement, have you done the dungeon on HC you can easily do Mythics, they're a fucking cakewalk

We don't need even more group finder, imo less would be better

[ShiyoKozuki]

People need to stop being selfish and thinking only about what they want and what will make them happy.

People need to start thinking about what's better for the game - no, GENRE as a whole, Non-queueble content will help this genre move forward and stop regressing. We NEED to want to help this genre and game improve after what wotlk-wod did to completely ruin it.

[Mercane]

No group finder for mythic is not a problem, but having to do mythics for quests is. Questing is the single player experience in this game and one should be able to do all of it without premade groups, either soloing or joining a queue (heroic dungeons and LFR). No mythic dungeons, no normal+ raids.

What mythic dungeons are required for quests outside of the Balance for Power artifact line, and the occasional Order Hall reward?

You're not missing out on skipping these if you're intimidated by mythic dungeons- and sorry, but I think having to group up to tackle some things is great and a key part of the "MMO Experience", if you want to do everything single-player, Skyrim is still a decent outlet for that.

[ShiyoKozuki]

As i tried to explain before in a previous comment, exclusive content has value for even the players who don't consume/play it. It creates legends, it creates tiers of players and it makes history. As long as something is not impossible (im looking at Rift here), very hard content makes casual people feel like they are playing a some what hardcore game. Surprising enough, people really like to play games, which don't completly feel like child games, so having hard/"mature" content feels good for many people.

So yes, not all people are ever gonna experience exclusive content in its current format by name, but they don't have to, to have a better experience.

Don't bother responding to osmeric.

[grandgato]

I will at the very least say that having the main focus of an entire content patch (what the content patch is named after) be something that only be done with an organized group is kind of a bummer. It's also kind of weird, because LFR still exists, but they won't make easier versions of dungeons, let alone a dungeon that's going to be the focus of an entire content patch? That's just weird. Hell, I foresee these easier avenues eventually giving far better gear than you'll get in these mythic only dungeons, which just isn't right.

Ever since LFG/LFR has been implemented blizzard has tried to funnel people into organized content either with rewards or lack of alternatives. I am guessing they are banking on the nostalgic value to try and motivate people out of their comfort zone for Karazhan.

We'll see .

People need to stop being selfish and thinking only about what they want and what will make them happy.

As long as i am paying money to play this game, you are damn right "my fun" is going to be first and foremost on my mind.

You're not missing out on skipping these if you're intimidated by mythic dungeons- and sorry, but I think having to group up to tackle some things is great and a key part of the "MMO Experience", if you want to do everything single-player, Skyrim is still a decent outlet for that.

So it's only "grouping up" if you form the group manually and run to the instance?

[Flurryfang]

Yes, that's a common hardcore bullshit talking point. It is ridiculous nonsense. Players are not entertained by other players getting stuff that they themselves won't get. It's at best neutral, and at worst toxic.

The phenomenon you are talking about can persist only as long as a player has the delusional belief that the reward isn't out of reach. But that delusion is inevitably punctured by experience, since (BY DEFINITION) most players won't get these rewards. Soon enough they learn that, and soon enough they get clueful about whether new exclusionary content will exclude them. I think that's what happened in early Cataclysm, to the dismay of the devs: the sheep no longer were fooling themselves into thinking the content would be for them.

Counter argument: TBC Black temple and Sunwell. Many players did not see this place when it was current (before a huge nerf) and yet many had fun seeing players clear it on streams and videos. WoWcinema became pretty huge, because people were in awe when they say guilds like nihilium and Ensidia kill Archimonde and Illidan. The community does have fun with these things, surprisingly, even though they werent playing in that content. So players can be entertained. And as i said before, making legends inside the game can pull people into playing the game and increasing their "hardcoreness", and the more hardcore your playerbase is, the healthier it is, since people are more engaged.

As i said to mr Buffer, plz come with counterarguments instead of just ignoring what i say and call me insane. I have shown examples of how this exclusivity/very hard content is good for the game and how it creates community. Now say something that disproves me.

And btw.... I started out playing this game when i was 14 years old. I was bad, but i became better. I was this sheep, that you are talking about, yet i have experienced top 100 raiding during wrath. The reason why i got there was training and dedication, and i did all this just so i could experience hard modes in Ulduar and see Algalon. I have several in-game friends, who started out noobs and are now better then me. So it seems like you are living in a delusion, if you really believe people will not go very far to reach this exclusive content.

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Don't bother responding to osmeric.

I try, but he is just so hilariously aggresive, that i can't stop xD

[Dilbon]

What mythic dungeons are required for quests outside of the Balance for Power artifact line, and the occasional Order Hall reward?

Suramar dungeons have quests, one of them for engineering. And a quest is a quest, if you can acquire a quest without premade grouping you should be able to finish it as well. That's just common sense.

[bufferunderrun]

Of course not because you are a terribad pleb and that's fine. Don't act though as if doing mythic content was outrageously rewarding at this juncture. The time invested to reward level was always terrible in comparison to other games but with even five man instances probably ending up as the better way to gear up that's hardly a valid today.

ok greedy kid you can keep asking for more who care

Counter argument: TBC Black temple and Sunwell. Many players did not see this place when it was current (before a huge nerf) and yet many had fun seeing players clear it on streams and videos. WoWcinema became pretty huge, because people were in awe when they say guilds like nihilium and Ensidia kill Archimonde and Illidan. The community does have fun with these things, surprisingly, even though they werent playing in that content. So players can be entertained. And as i said before, making legends inside the game can pull people into playing the game and increasing their "hardcoreness", and the more hardcore your playerbase is, the healthier it is, since people are more engaged.

As i said to mr Buffer, plz come with counterarguments instead of just ignoring what i say and call me insane. I have shown examples of how this exclusivity/very hard content is good for the game and how it creates community. Now say something that disproves me.

And btw.... I started out playing this game when i was 14 years old. I was bad, but i became better. I was this sheep, that you are talking about, yet i have experienced top 100 raiding during wrath. The reason why i got there was training and dedication, and i did all this just so i could experience hard modes in Ulduar and see Algalon. I have several in-game friends, who started out noobs and are now better then me. So it seems like you are living in a delusion, if you really believe people will not go very far to reach this exclusive content.

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Probably we played a different game it's true that those world first guild had a good amount of followers and among those some got inspired by them but it was restricted only to a small percentage of hardcore raiders who dueled in the upper half of the ladder, today is the same thing, Paragon, Method etc all have their followers and some get inspired by them.

On the other hand the vast majority of players never cared and still don't care of the world first dwellers or even the streamers, the number of those who back in vanilla and tbc left the game cause they can't access raids was enormous you cannot ignore it or deny it and back then the game had a good stream of new player coming in replacing those who leave.

What you describe is the reaction of just a tiny fraction of the playerbase and blizzard himself acknowledge the problem and made wotlk raiding extremely accessible, the rest is history: lfg, lfr the same pug system, different difficulties, flex raiding all is for the sake of making more and more player participate and experience the end game.

You guys should be happy that there is lfr, it let peoples taste raiding better than any shitty guild out there, it contributed greatly to initiate new player into raiding more than any ensidia first kill has ever done. I don't have the data so this is my opinion but imho the number of peoples that try harder raiding after doing lfr is 100 time what in the past were the people who hopped from a social kara running guild to a t5 or t6 guild.

Lfr is the best advertisement for raid than you could have and at the same time do the first survival of the fittest selection better than any officer could ever do.

[Neotokyo]

As an 845 geared BM hunter with 2 gold artifact talents I have been denied access to groups in the first place so many times it's just no longer funny.. SO i took the advice of others and started making my own groups... Yeah that went well.. people joined .. saw it was a BM hunter and left instantly.. Am I missing something because it's really starting to take the piss

[cFortyfive]

who care

thanks for even more of your valueless drivel.

[Finnigast]

You should try pugging a Mythic as a Shadow Priest, now that's fun. :P

Right there with you as a Lock.

[araine]

I think these mythics are kind of different from the wod ones, considering they are pretty easy. I think a lot of pugs will be a lot more lax with their requirements, even going into the future.

Rather the opposite can be expected. i would personally not take anyone below 840 right now. since really if you are below that gear threshold this far into the expansion you have obviously been slacking badly and i have no interested in carrying you to freebie gear put in the time and you might get something in the next expansion.

Really we can fully expect to see the same happen as happened with WoD mythics namely insane ilvl requirements that boils down to having gear several tiers ABOVE what drops there. I was frequently declined instantly for WoD mythics with a 734 geared melee dps. For a place that dropped gear 50 fucking ilvls below what you are using.

Really if you cant see the same happening in Legion i dont know what to say but i can promise you it will happen again and i am helping out with my part of it in making sure i get to give payback to folks below 840 gear without achievements when i got the enjoyment of sitting on top of the hill right now with several 850 items already in use.

That they can do it with 830 or 825 gear doesnt matter. I want the quick and easy clear and taking anyone below 840+ risks that quick and easy.

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As an 845 geared BM hunter with 2 gold artifact talents I have been denied access to groups in the first place so many times it's just no longer funny.. SO i took the advice of others and started making my own groups... Yeah that went well.. people joined .. saw it was a BM hunter and left instantly.. Am I missing something because it's really starting to take the piss

BM shows you lack knowledge of whats your class clearly best spec for dps right now. And if such a fundamental lack of knowledge is displayed folks frequently gets scared that you will lack total knowledge of the instance etc as well and just ending up wiping the groups.

[ShiyoKozuki]

As long as i am paying money to play this game, you are damn right "my fun" is going to be first and foremost on my mind.

Getting everything you want mailed to you upon logging in could be fun to you, but not good for the game.
You're being selfish.

[Otimus]

People need to stop being selfish and thinking only about what they want and what will make them happy.

People need to start thinking about what's better for the game - no, GENRE as a whole, Non-queueble content will help this genre move forward and stop regressing. We NEED to want to help this genre and game improve after what wotlk-wod did to completely ruin it.

The only reason queueable content got made in the first place was because not enough people were actively using the content. In fact, the social requriement to do everything of value is a big reason why the MMO genre probably never grew as big as it could have been. (WoW is a fluke. Most MMO's don't get that big, and WoW clearly didn't get big on the back of raiding or manual dungeoning.)

It's not better for the game or the genre, but it is better for the social aspect. You should mentally divorce the two. (but, as your posting has shown several times over, you're VERY biased toward only one way of thinking, and refuse to thing any other way.)