Brexit: Petition for second EU referendum rejected

[ranzino]

Because what people fail to understand is that May has never stated that Scotland has to completely agree with Brexit, she just needs to know what they want from it for negotiation purposes.

The thing about Scotland is that they probably won't really care all that much about freedom of movement for EU workers, as it doesn't really affect them in the same way it affects England. Their needs are slightly different, so May needs to obtain a list of what Scotland will accept and what they won't accept, wrangle for a bit, then she will be in a position to speak for the entire UK.

People are reading too much into it, as if May has to somehow reverse the remain-leave split in Scotland, but that isn't what is being said.

My guess is still Nicola Sturgeon will demand very much. Where would be the Rubicon in the matter for May ? And could Sturgeon veto the negotiations if the brexit teams fails to bring home the very terms Sturgeon holds dear ?

Scotland would be silly to let May negotiate uncontrolled.

[Tinch]

Is the poll also about "stay in UK = out of EU" or did they just ask for opinions about keeping the Union ?

I'd imagine everyone would already assume that to be the case after the referendum.

[Kalis]

My guess is still Nicola Sturgeon will demand very much. Where would be the Rubicon in the matter for May ? And could Sturgeon veto the negotiations if the brexit teams fails to bring home the very terms Sturgeon holds dear ?

Scotland would be silly to let May negotiate uncontrolled.

May has the upper hand, Scotland has had its referendum on indepedence and Westminster is under no obligation to offer another one. Scotland cannot declare unilateral independence, as all the UK would have to do is claim that any regions who want to remain part of the UK can do so, which would lead to a break up of Scotland.

It comes down to which has the greater right to integrity as a nation, the UK or Scotland? The UK is a powerful economy, which would be able to rely on the political backing of the US, India, China and many European countries that have wantaway regions within them, e.g. Spain, as well as the likes of Germany, who prefer access to the UK market over the much smaller Scottish one. Scotland might get smaller nations backing them. It would be a no contest, they would be barred from EU entry for a start.

Does the Scottish Parliament even have the right to veto decisions taken in the UK Parliament? Holyrood ultimately derives its authority from Westminster, so it is somewhat debateable that they would be able to block anything significant.

[Tinch]

And what would you do to replace the 25% of current tax incomes that would vanish overnight when all the financial companies relocate to mainland Europe? Make things that the rest of the world make cheaper? Export the natural resources we don't have?

I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that you don't have a clue. You just decided you wanted something without thinking through the consequences, like a toddler.

Yes because everyone would really up sticks and leave overnight... It's these kind of hyperbolic statements that made people glaze over during the campaign.

Yes some may move parts of their operations, but to suggest a wholesale exodus is just silly.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Yes because everyone would really up sticks and leave overnight... It's these kind of hyperbolic statements that made people glaze over during the campaign.

Yes some may move parts of their operations, but to suggest a wholesale exodus is just silly.

Finance is the one area that pretty much could do that. If the UK left the EU entirely, they would lose the financial passport, and there would be no point in retaining their head office functions in the UK. Having moved those to the mainland, how much sense would it make to keep the rest in the UK?

The "talent" has no particular link with this country, and will simply follow the companies. Cities in the EU would fall over themselves to offer every incentive for them to come, knowing that it represents a golden goose for them. Make no mistake, if we go for a deal that loses us the passport, the financial sector in the UK would be decimated (in the current accepted sense, rather than the literal original sense).

[ranzino]

....

Does the Scottish Parliament even have the right to veto decisions taken in the UK Parliament? Holyrood ultimately derives its authority from Westminster, so it is somewhat debateable that they would be able to block anything significant.

Then what is Sturgeon's "wish list" for ? Unless Scotland could indeed designate a "solid" dead line, it's useless.

Or May is deadset on Brexit, taking the risk to piss off Scotland and has to live with the moaning from the north for years to come, inlcuding a lot of "told you so" when something goes wrong afterwards.

[Deleted]

Finance is the one area that pretty much could do that. If the UK left the EU entirely, they would lose the financial passport, and there would be no point in retaining their head office functions in the UK. Having moved those to the mainland, how much sense would it make to keep the rest in the UK? The "talent" has no particular link with this country, and will simply follow the companies. Cities in the EU would fall over themselves to offer every incentive for them to come, knowing that it represents a golden goose for them. Make no mistake, if we go for a deal that loses us the passport, the financial sector in the UK would be decimated (in the current accepted sense, rather than the literal original sense).

we cant leave the EU entirely cos we are part of europe

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Then what is Sturgeon's "wish list" for ? Unless Scotland could indeed designate a "solid" dead line, it's useless. Or May is deadset on Brexit, taking the risk to piss off Scotland and has to live with the moaning from the north for years to come, inlcuding a lot of "told you so" when something goes wrong afterwards.

scotland had a chance to leave the UK before the brexit referendum and guess what they voted no and now they want to be independent by leaving the UK and joining the EU LOL

[ranzino]

scotland had a chance to leave the UK before the brexit referendum and guess what they voted no and now they want to be independent by leaving the UK and joining the EU LOL

their indy ref was under the impression UK stays in EU, but this changed in june. plausible to demand the end of the union now.

[Kalis]

Then what is Sturgeon's "wish list" for ? Unless Scotland could indeed designate a "solid" dead line, it's useless.

I am not party to those discussions, I would guess a lot of what she is demanding is to obtain a bargaining position, not the minimum of what she actually wants.

You have to understand that Westminster represents Scotland, Holyrood is a regional assembly. Westminster has MPs from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, it is the ultimate political authority in the UK (arguably barring the sovereign, but that is neither here nor there).

Or May is deadset on Brexit, taking the risk to piss off Scotland and has to live with the moaning from the north for years to come, inlcuding a lot of "told you so" when something goes wrong afterwards.

They have been moaning for 300 years.

[Huehuecoyotl]

we cant leave the EU entirely cos we are part of europe

You appear to be confusing the continent of Europe with the entity that is the EU. Worrying, considering that you voted to leave the EU. What did you think was going to happen, we were going to pull up the anchor and float the island off into the Atlantic?

We can leave the EU entirely, and quite a lot of the Brexit people seem to be demanding that we do just that. Or, when the problems with that approach get pointed out to them, they demand that we get all the benefits of fully leaving the EU, while keeping all the good things about the EU, like trade. I pity the poor negotiators that are going to have to try and get a deal that satisfies those numbskulls.

[Deleted]

well we already have countries like australia and new zealand wanting to trade all our old commonwealth countries want to trade again, if your an EU member your basically just cutting out the rest of the world

[Mayhem]

May has the upper hand, Scotland has had its referendum on indepedence and Westminster is under no obligation to offer another one. Scotland cannot declare unilateral independence, as all the UK would have to do is claim that any regions who want to remain part of the UK can do so, which would lead to a break up of Scotland.

It comes down to which has the greater right to integrity as a nation, the UK or Scotland? The UK is a powerful economy, which would be able to rely on the political backing of the US, India, China and many European countries that have wantaway regions within them, e.g. Spain, as well as the likes of Germany, who prefer access to the UK market over the much smaller Scottish one. Scotland might get smaller nations backing them. It would be a no contest, they would be barred from EU entry for a start.

Does the Scottish Parliament even have the right to veto decisions taken in the UK Parliament? Holyrood ultimately derives its authority from Westminster, so it is somewhat debateable that they would be able to block anything significant.

I love the hypocrisy of how the UK wanted to leave the union but won´t let scotland leave their union, delicious.

Weren´t you the one who argued that the EU political body should shut up about interests of their members? This thought goes away pretty quickly when talking about another union.

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we cant leave the EU entirely cos we are part of europe

That actually hurts to read.

scotland had a chance to leave the UK before the brexit referendum and guess what they voted no and now they want to be independent by leaving the UK and joining the EU LOL

So much for democracy, fuck the union, we do what our people want.

[Kalis]

I love the hypocrisy of how the UK wanted to leave the union but won´t let scotland leave their union, delicious.

Scotland has voted on independence and voted to stay, so what are you talking about? We had threads on it here, it was in all the papers, it was hardly a secret.

Some people in Scotland cannot unilaterally declare independence, that would be a coup, not a democratic decision and as such Westminster would be under no real obligation to recognise their claims.

Weren´t you the one who argued that the EU political body should shut up about interests of their members? This thought goes away pretty quickly when talking about another union.

No, I said the EU political body should not be trying to dictate policy in their own interests. They are not comparable to Westminster, they are more akin to the Civil Service and if they ever started running their mouths off then I would tell them to shut up and do their job as well.

[Tradewind]

lol FurryFox still pretending that he voted to leave.

[Deleted]

lol FurryFox still pretending that he voted to leave.

how you know i am guy i could be girl, and think the real issue is your post count and when you joined seriously get off MMO-C for once

[Tradewind]

how you know i am guy i could be girl, and think the real issue is your post count and when you joined seriously get off MMO-C for once

I think you should get off mmoc.


...and you've made it clear you're a male, many times. Sooooooo.

[Calfredd]

how you know i am guy i could be girl, and think the real issue is your post count and when you joined seriously get off MMO-C for once

With how angry you sound when you type (not to mention all the grammar mistakes. Even non English speakers have better grammar geez) it sounds like you could deal with stepping away from the keyboard a bit.

[Mayhem]

well we already have countries like australia and new zealand wanting to trade all our old commonwealth countries want to trade again, if your an EU member your basically just cutting out the rest of the world

You don´t actually think that if australia and new zealand could land a deal with the EU they would stick to the UK instead?

[Deleted]

You don´t actually think that if australia and new zealand could land a deal with the EU they would stick to the UK instead?

we already have deals with them cos of our commonwealth history they want to trade with us

[Mayhem]

Scotland has voted on independence and voted to stay, so what are you talking about? We had threads on it here, it was in all the papers, it was hardly a secret.

Some people in Scotland cannot unilaterally declare independence, that would be a coup, not a democratic decision and as such Westminster would be under no real obligation to recognise their claims.

Yeah, 2 years prior to the referendum when there was nothing but talk. Anyway i know it´s not 100% comparable because different unions are different unions, still funny.

No, I said the EU political body should not be trying to dictate policy in their own interests. They are not comparable to Westminster, they are more akin to the Civil Service and if they ever started running their mouths off then I would tell them to shut up and do their job as well.

... this again, i forgot that you don´t read about the EU or how it´s run.

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we already have deals with them cos of our commonwealth history they want to trade with us

That´s not an answer to my question and what deals do you have with them?