Why do some people get so mad over ilvl requirements?

[Ragedaug]

Ok, well, if you guys say so. I've never heard someone seriously calling it a "carry" because the healer was a lower item level - but still perfectly capable of the content in question - than the tank. That just sounds like some psychological need to elevate oneself over those around you.

It works for all of them. If the DPS is low, the tank has to take longer to tank each pack. If the healer is low, the tank has to spend more time pulling slowly. If the tank is low, they have to pull slower even with a good healer.

If you are the best person in your group, regardless of whether you are healer, tank or DPS, you are carrying the others, to whatever small degree. The term however only tends to get used when the degree is large and very obvious - like <40% of the group are performing substantially lower then the rest.

[Grym]

I make my groups 840+ because I want people that have already done mythics. Also, I have 0 problems finding people that meet this requirement. So if you're upset about not being allowed into higher ilvl groups make your own group.

Exactly, there should be plenty of people out there with ilvl 810 that got rejected from the 840 groups, so people should have no problem filling groups.

Even better many people brought up that gear doesn't measure skill, so even better, let the 840 group take the 840 folks, the 810 groups can take all the "skilled but no gear" folks.

Everybody happy.

[Ragedaug]

There is no way that I'm going to call it "carrying" when the content requires X and someone else is doing X but I'm doing X+1. That just reeks of some kind of need to step on others to validate oneself or something, I don't even know.

How about, they just don't want to play with you? You keep looking for validation based on some lawyer's definition of a term, when it doesn't matter.

They...don't...want...to...play...with...you.

You can whine about it, or figure out why. Folks who figure out why and make the necessary changes get to play. Folks who just sit and whine don't get to play. So now it's up to you.

[chipwood]

Player A has 3 friends, X, Y and Z. They are missing one for dungeon, but hate carrying people, so they want to find the last slot with someone that relatively close to their ilvl (since you cannot check skill, but you can check ilvl), so they can have fun.

Player B has no friends, nor the ilvl requirement by many. He wanted to get in the group with A but is rejected.

I am sorry but B is still the antisocial one in my book.

It is B's $15 dollar a month, and he would like to have fun, nothing wrong with that.

It is A's $15 a month too, he doesn't want to play with anyone badly gear, slow, or he simply doesn't like the name of, it is totally his right too.

I just find it weird that players A, X, Y, and Z would rather sit around and do nothing for an hour because they can't find a fifth rather than take B along with them because it that would mean they're "carrying" some one and that would add a couple minutes to their run.

And, sorry, B is not being antisocial. He's trying to be social by getting into a group but is being rejected for no other reason than A, X, Y, and Z don't want to "carry" someone through the dungeon, even though B meets the ilvl requirement to get in (just not A's arbtirarily high requirement).

It is not very nice, but this isn't about being nice, this is about being efficient, and that to many players is much more important than being nice.

And that's where the community has gone toxic. Being nice is important in a social game. Too many players have forgotten that.

Being nice and being social go hand in hand. Try it sometime.

[Ragedaug]

Exactly, there should be plenty of people out there with ilvl 810 that got rejected from the 840 groups, so people should have no problem filling groups.

Even better many people brought up that gear doesn't measure skill, so even better, let the 840 group take the 840 folks, the 810 groups can take all the "skilled but no gear" folks.

Everybody happy.

Exactly. Why would the 810's even want to play with the 840 scrubs. Find you more 1337 810's and you can smoke the mythics instead of having to carry those bad 840s.

[force18]

These discussions are the reason I am scared to try even a normal dungeon lol I have played WoW since Wrath, but Cata and Mop hardly played just doing my own thing and never did any dungeons in them. I get really nervous and shy around people and don't want to fail. I made my characters prot warrior and blood dk and to proceed I have to do some dungeons, but have never "tanked" before. I am in a great guild, but because of my anxiety I am too scared to even try a normal dungeon.

People said well just switch to dps and go that route and play dumb I'm at a point where I would pay to get carried through them lol

[Amsden]

I get annoyed when someone's Ilvl is below their own requirement. Don't ask for 840 when you're only 832!

[Ragedaug]

I just find it weird that players A, X, Y, and Z would rather sit around and do nothing for an hour because they can't find a fifth rather than take B along with them because it that would mean they're "carrying" some one and that would add a couple minutes to their run.

That's the thing. They don't. If there wasn't enough 830+ or 840+ folks out there, they would ask for lower. When you are trying to get into a random it's not about meeting an arbitrary level, it's about meeting a level high enough to get picked over someone else also in the pool looking for group.

- - - Updated - - -

These discussions are the reason I am scared to try even a normal dungeon lol I have played WoW since Wrath, but Cata and Mop hardly played just doing my own thing and never did any dungeons in them. I get really nervous and shy around people and don't want to fail. I made my characters prot warrior and blood dk and to proceed I have to do some dungeons, but have never "tanked" before. I am in a great guild, but because of my anxiety I am too scared to even try a normal dungeon.

People said well just switch to dps and go that route and play dumb I'm at a point where I would pay to get carried through them lol

If you do randoms you'll be just fine the majority of the time. Very few people these days (at least in my experience) bother kicking bad players or even saying anything to them in chat. (not to say you are bad, but folks who are bad, still make it to the end of the dungeon) The only time it comes up is if the tank or healer is bad enough that it's causing wipes.

[Wallmaker Yahzarah]

My personal problem with ilevel requirements is that it leads to unnecessary toxicity and gating; from player to player. Random player with 100 just finds an upgrade and is now 105. That player, the general player, will only want to play with other players on that new level. Same goes for pvp...

[BannedForViews]

The problem with ilvl is it's like BMI. It doesn't tell the full story. Take Affliction for example (yes I know, dumpster warlock spec). Mastery is far an away the best stat for affliction. Haste is second, but not really even close to mastery. I think mastery is a good 40-50% more effective for affliction damage. My warlock has some 850 gear that has stuff like versatility and crit on it, both pretty worthless. I instead wear 825/830 pieces loaded with mastery because it means I do more damage. To say that my ilvl encompasses how much damage I do is not accurate.

This is why it is a good idea to keep that gear around and put it on to boost ilvl in the event you find yourself looking for idiots like that, then putting your good, lower ilvl gear, back on.

[Sparklelord]

I really like when people in much lower ilvl out dps those with a higher one.

Cause gear is everything right? lol

[Grym]

I just find it weird that players A, X, Y, and Z would rather sit around and do nothing for an hour because they can't find a fifth rather than take B along with them because it that would mean they're "carrying" some one and that would add a couple minutes to their run.

Not really, even setting requirement at 840 it doesn't take long to fill a spot. It certainly take the poor sod with 810 hell a lot longer to find one though.

Oh same for me, if I can choose, wait 15min, but the run will only be 10min faster (so net effect is still 5min slower), I would still choose to wait 15min for a better person so the run goes a little faster. Why? Because waiting doesn't piss me off as much as in a group with slow people, I'd rather take the penalty, leave and reform later if the group is slow.

It's my choice.

And, sorry, B is not being antisocial. He's trying to be social by getting into a group but is being rejected for no other reason than A, X, Y, and Z don't want to "carry" someone through the dungeon, even though B meets the ilvl requirement to get in.

Doesn't matter.

Since when the requirement for joining a group is the requirement for doing the event? Never.

The requirement to join a group is whatever requirement set by the group, deal with it or make your own, it is really as simple as that.

Being nice and being social go hand in hand. Try it sometime.

At that point I am no longer talking about being social or not, because that is not what people care about.

People only care about being efficient, if you are a loner with no friends and hates the world, and never speaks a word in the dungeon, but you have ilvl850, you won't have problem finding people letting you join in groups. If anything people would like you and invite you back for future runs.

That is how the world (of warcraft) works.

[Ragedaug]

My personal problem with ilevel requirements is that it leads to unnecessary toxicity and gating; from player to player. Random player with 100 just finds an upgrade and is now 105. That player, the general player, will only want to play with other players on that new level. Same goes for pvp...

It's not about that. It's about finding the best potential people to run with. You are competing with the other players who are also looking for group. If you are the only one who's 105, you'll quickly ask for lower iLvl, cause you'll never find anyone else. Or if all the other 105's are already gone, you'll ask for lower. That's the point. People are asking for 105 because there are 105's out there looking for group. And they'd rather take a chance on a random 105, then a random 100.

[Grym]

My personal problem with ilevel requirements is that it leads to unnecessary toxicity and gating; from player to player. Random player with 100 just finds an upgrade and is now 105. That player, the general player, will only want to play with other players on that new level. Same goes for pvp...

Same with friends.

When you earn 30k a year, you probably make a lot of friend making around that or less (or a bit more).

When you start making 150k, you probably have a lot less friends that are even unemployed or poor at this point.

When you become a millionaire, you probably don't want to know anyone earning below 100k.

When you become a billionaire, you probably don't want to know anyone that doesn't even have a yacht.

[Deadite]

I am sorry but B is still the antisocial one in my book.

Huh?

B is reaching out and trying to interact with his fellow players. A and his three pals have dehumanized poor B and decided his numerical value doesn't even merit consideration. No wonder the poor guy has no friends when he is cast aside by such heartless brutes.

[Amsden]

News flash most of the mythics were cleared at around 795-800 ilvl in 95% of the new dinged players.

That's why it's so funny. The Mythics are not even remotely hard, but people just want to be carried.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

It's not about that. It's about finding the best potential people to run with. You are competing with the other players who are also looking for group. If you are the only one who's 105, you'll quickly ask for lower iLvl, cause you'll never find anyone else. Or if all the other 105's are already gone, you'll ask for lower. That's the point. People are asking for 105 because there are 105's out there looking for group. And they'd rather take a chance on a random 105, then a random 100.

The anger mostly stems from the people, that ask for item levels higher than the content they want to run drops. If you are looking to run H Dungeons but are asking for 840's only? That's just being a dick to be a dick, literally being 820 or 830 wouldn't even make the dungeon slower. Typically you're going in there for a quest or something, it's not that big of a deal to carry a couple people o help them get geared up, whether they are bad or not.

[Ragedaug]

Huh?

B is reaching out and trying to interact with his fellow players. A and his three pals have dehumanized poor B and decided his numerical value doesn't even merit consideration. No wonder the poor guy has no friends when he is cast aside by such heartless brutes.

Yeah, you are definitely over thinking this one.

They aren't picking B because C has 50K more DPS potential. There's no personal vendetta against B.

[Grym]

Huh?

B is reaching out and trying to interact with his fellow players. A and his three pals have dehumanized poor B and decided his numerical value doesn't even merit consideration. No wonder the poor guy has no friends when he is cast aside by such heartless brutes.

He know what is needed to "make friends with those brutes", so get better ilvl and join them.

And you will say "how does he get better gear if they exclude him?", I am not talking about joining the 840 groups, I am talking about joining or forming 810 groups and make friends there. If you happen to get more gear during those runs, maybe you can then make friends with the 840 folks.

[Ragedaug]

How did you quote that and then give a totally off topic reply?

Because you keep wanting to pick apart the term 'carry' when it doesn't matter. So screw the term and lets get to the crux of the matter. Try to deal with the issue at hand instead of trying to argue the dictionary.

- - - Updated - - -

He know what is needed to "make friends with those brutes", so get better ilvl and join them.

And you will say "how does he get better gear if they exclude him?", I am not talking about joining the 840 groups, I am talking about joining or forming 810 groups and make friends there. If you happen to get more gear during those runs, maybe you can then make friends with the 840 folks.

Basically this. The friends I'm running with all started at <800. We dinged 110. Then we ran normals. Then we walked to the instances to do heroics until everyone was 810, now we queue for heroics and run to the instance to dabble in mythics. Crazy how that works.