Why do some people get so mad over ilvl requirements?

[IIamaKing]

I'll give you that.

But at this point if you have someone who's say got all the mythic kills for previous expansion say 5-10 ilvls short, I doubt it's going to make the make it or break it threshold for the dungeon?

For sure, but I dont have access to that info quickly, I have an ilvl, I am not going to armory every applicant to see if they are that diamond in the rough. I put up 840, that says I want people who have some gear and mythic XP to get it done asap. My mythics right now are solely for up-rolls/sockets ect, I dont want to be carry a 100k dps through that, I do ~150 as a tank......

[Deleted]

This seriously isn't true anymore. You can get 830 gear quite easily just doing world quests.

People aren't asking for 830, they're asking for 840+. Which is above what the dungeon even drops. It makes running them fairly pointless. His argument has merit, it's pretty much the same situation. Except as you aren't being paid by the point you do qualify there isn't much of a reason to run them anymore.

[Haram]

There's a bigger issue as a DPS when it comes to finding groups in the group finder.

Since there is a massive surplus of DPS for the demand, the group will obviously always take the dps with the highest ilvl, even if their requirements are low. Halfway through Eye, the group I got into lost one of the DPSers. We requed with group finder, and despite us already having 2 melee, we took an ilvl 845 rogue over a hunter, mage and warlock all over 835 ilvl. So as a DPS even if you meet the requirements of the group, they will always pick the highest level out of their 30 applications.

What I have found useful as a dps is to immediately whisper the group leader after signing up. That 1 second of extra effort makes it look like you give a shit about getting in, rather than mass applying (even though you are). It's the same thing with a job application: Emailing a resume versus emailing a resume and making a phone call after a few days makes it sound like you actually give a shit to be part of the group.

Try that, it works for me.

[shonist]

people you just need to stop saying that skills > gear for the sake of fcking goD!!!!!

YES, SKILLS > GEAR BUT YOU DONT KNOW THE PPL ON QUEUE!!!!!

840 with unknown skills > 839 with unknown skills.

[Pantalaimon]

Roll tank, gear tank up for minimum dungeon reqs, form own group, group mates put up or shut up with running with a tank that doesn't vastly outgear the dungeon, ????, profit.

People can't kick you from your own group. Worst they do is whine & leave.

[Actarius]

First week my group of guildees cleared 8/8 mythics and got everyone to 835+, our starting avg ilvl was 806.

This last week we needed a fill in for Court of Stars, so we pugged. I used my addon to tell me what our average ilvl was, which it was 846, and set the requirement at 846.

I did it to reduce the chance of a baddie and increase the chance of a smooth run.

[Gsara]

Was in lfg looking for another dps to fill out our mythic group and someone tried to sign up at 797. Surely they didn't think they'd meet DPS requirements for a mythic with that gear... right? You can't even queue for heroics in that!

A ton of players cleared all the mythics except the two in suramar sitting around 800 ilvl the first week. You dont need 840+ to do them. Outside of maybe a couple of bosses, mythics are pretty faceroll overall. We also regularly take fresh 110s to gear up and never had a death or a wipe.

The reason people put higher ilvl requirements on the mythic queue is because you know atleast that person has been playing the game and 840+ unknown player is way better chance to take than a sub 830 player for pugs.

[Deleted]

i for myself are a very high skilled rogue. i do as much dmg as my char can do. when i was as 820 ilv i was ready to go mythic. if everyone im my group is as skilled as i am we will get a smooth run. the point is you dont NEED a 840 ilv to complete a mythic dungeon. so i had o buy gear and grind the stupid heroic dungeons again and again. it takes a lot of time to grind the 840 ilv gear... and that is what i hate about the other players. i am better then the most players, but they say NO you have not enough gear.

in wow its not about gear! its about skill!

remember some time ago in wotlk.. there was a raid groub called "raiding in blues". they did the first 3 bosses in icc with blue dungeon gear. they did it because they were skilled. poeple ignore my skill but ask for ilv. that is what fucks me up!

[SkagenRora]

people you just need to stop saying that skills > gear for the sake of fcking goD!!!!!

YES, SKILLS > GEAR BUT YOU DONT KNOW THE PPL ON QUEUE!!!!!

840 with unknown skills > 839 with unknown skills.

Truth! o/

[Hexxidecimal]

Yes, because me and my friends have put in the hours and have the ilvl, we want smooth fast runs for ourselves. We make the group, we make the rules on who we bring.

We could bring an 820, but why bring 20s when there are plenty of 40s? The GF is there for the 20s too, they can make groups.

My basic issue with the idea is that you are only accounting for ilvl and nothing else. Obviously there are things you can't possibly know before getting into the instance, such as skill. However there are other things that are just as important to consider outside of ilvl alone. For instance stating. If I grap a Demon Hunter who is fully stated for mastery in ilvl 840 gear then a fully crit stat-ed 820 Demon Hunter will do better. There is also class differences to consider. For instance grabbing an 840 ilvl Ele Shaman opposed to a 820-830 fire mage.

Ilvl alone doesn't ensure a smooth run.

The unfortunate truth is that it's the best indicator we have at the moment.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with requiring ilvl minimums for pugs. Just that the system is flawed. I also hate it when it's unnecessarily high. Like wanting 840 for heroics.

[Cerus]

This. Video games shouldn't be jobs.

This ^^^

I've played casually since Cata launched. I was a raid leader, Officer and MT for my guild at the time. Bunch of us had hit 85 and had geared up about as far as we could so I put a Bradin Hold run up on the calendar near the end of the week. Two other officers who had an online thing going, whined because one of them had to work and wouldn't be able to join run. These two always threw a hissy fit if the guild did a raid without them even though they chose to limit themselves to only playing together.

The GM yanked me into a private vent channel to bitch me out after they QQd to him over it. They didn't think it was fair to schedule a run of a puggable raid that 99% of the guild could attend a few days before reset.

I essentially told him to go fuck himself, took every single one of my toons out of the guild and played causal with close friends ever since. Couldn't be happier.

Last I heard those two destroyed that guild with their drama.

[IIamaKing]

My basic issue with the idea is that you are only accounting for ilvl and nothing else. Obviously there are things you can't possibly know before getting into the instance, such as skill. However there are other things that are just as important to consider outside of ilvl alone. For instance stating. If I grap a Demon Hunter who is fully stated for mastery in ilvl 840 gear then a fully crit stat-ed 820 Demon Hunter will do better. There is also class differences to consider. For instance grabbing an 840 ilvl Ele Shaman opposed to a 820-830 fire mage.

Ilvl alone doesn't ensure a smooth run.

The unfortunate truth is that it's the best indicator we have at the moment.

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with requiring ilvl minimums for pugs. Just that the system is flawed. I also hate it when it's unnecessarily high. Like wanting 840 for heroics.

Its the ONLY metric we have. I get a list of people with class, and ilvl. We have a healer and tank, so class really doesnt matter most of the time, Ilvl does.

With the tools provided (outside of armoring everyone, which meh) Ilvl is the only real metric we have to make a choice. 840 is a perfect ilvl for folks in the 845 range. You cant really get that high with out having done a couple mythics, so it shows they have done some and have some loot. Thats as much info as I need or care to go after.

I REALLY dont give a fuck how that makes anyone feel, lower ilvl folks are welcome to make their own groups. They wont be invited to mine.

If there is a group out there asking for 840 for HEROICS, fuck, they did you a favor, dont join that shit show.

[Hexxidecimal]

Its the ONLY metric we have. I get a list of people with class, and ilvl. We have a healer and tank, so class really doesnt matter most of the time, Ilvl does.

With the tools provided (outside of armoring everyone, which meh) Ilvl is the only real metric we have to make a choice. 840 is a perfect ilvl for folks in the 845 range. You cant really get that high with out having done a couple mythics, so it shows they have done some and have some loot. Thats as much info as I need or care to go after.

I REALLY dont give a fuck how that makes anyone feel, lower ilvl folks are welcome to make their own groups. They wont be invited to mine.

If there is a group out there asking for 840 for HEROICS, fuck, they did you a favor, dont join that shit show.

When you inspect someone you can look at a lot more than just ilvl. Which I do, because the Ilvl requirements I have are less stringent. If I see someone cares enough to try and stat properly on ilvl 830 stuff? Welcome aboard. I say. I also check talents. I don't need or require people to have a perfect talent set up mind you, but I do look for at least intelligent talent choices. Like if I see a DH who has momentum and but doesn't have fel mastery or prepared, um nope sorry, don't care what you ilvl is.

Class does actually matter. Like I said, a 10 ilvl lower Fire mage will push out more damage than an 840 ilvl elemental shaman.

Also you can absolutely get to 840 never stepping one foot in mythic. My guild are all very casual. We have run heroics together a few times but only two of us have done Mythics. a good number of them have ilvl 840 or very nearly just from crafting, order hall piece upgrades and upgraded loot from world quests. I myself only have 835. I have only done 2 mythics and didn't get any upgrades.

It's not the only metric, only the most easily checked.

Again I don't blame anyone for using it. There is nothing inherently "bad" about it. But it is a flawed system if it's the only metric you are using. It's even if-ier in situations where you take one of those high risk classes (Barrage Hunter/Havoc DH).

[Hexxidecimal]

Heh, that's the funny thing. I've actually seen some players, bloggers and even a guide suggest not even trying to optimize stats at this point. Just take highest item level and go, because that's all anyone is going to look at, and knocking yourself down from 840 to 839 because you switched to a better trinket is just fucking yourself over.

It's a mad, mad world we live in now.

This is, pretty much true 99% of the time. People don't bother to look because "840 is good enough for me". I COULD be 840 right now if I wanted to be, but I refuse to equip gear that isn't stat-ed for me. If the Agi increase is worth it, then sure, often times it's not.

Actually that may not be true I still have some shit 815 gear on that I just haven't found an upgrade for yet.

[IIamaKing]

When you inspect someone you can look at a lot more than just ilvl. Which I do, because the Ilvl requirements I have are less stringent. If I see someone cares enough to try and stat properly on ilvl 830 stuff? Welcome aboard. I say. I also check talents. I don't need or require people to have a perfect talent set up mind you, but I do look for at least intelligent talent choices. Like if I see a DH who has momentum and but doesn't have fel mastery or prepared, um nope sorry, don't care what you ilvl is.

Class does actually matter. Like I said, a 10 ilvl lower Fire mage will push out more damage than an 840 ilvl elemental shaman.

Also you can absolutely get to 840 never stepping one foot in mythic. My guild are all very casual. We have run heroics together a few times but only two of us have done Mythics. a good number of them have ilvl 840 or very nearly just from crafting, order hall piece upgrades and upgraded loot from world quests. I myself only have 835. I have only done 2 mythics and didn't get any upgrades.

It's not the only metric, only the most easily checked.

Again I don't blame anyone for using it. There is nothing inherently "bad" about it. But it is a flawed system if it's the only metric you are using. It's even if-ier in situations where you take one of those high risk classes (Barrage Hunter/Havoc DH).

I guess you are right about not needing mythics for 840, but anyone with 840 right now, is not a casual "scrub" if you will, they are folks driving hard for the basket. Can you inspect via the GF window? If yes, I will certainly do that, otherwise, I already have to have em in group.

I said "class really doesn't matter most of the time", yes there are occasions, but most of the time, its a dps. So long as they are doing ~20% more than me, I am happy.

- - - Updated - - -

Heh, that's the funny thing. I've actually seen some players, bloggers and even a guide suggest not even trying to optimize stats at this point. Just take highest item level and go, because that's all anyone is going to look at, and knocking yourself down from 840 to 839 because you switched to a better trinket is just fucking yourself over.

It's a mad, mad world we live in now.

I have heard that the main stats on the higher ilvl trump the 2ndary stats....smells fishy.

[ElDoorO]

Hey. Just because you ask for 830/840+ dosen't mean you're bad, it's because people just want fast/smooth/easy runs that dosen't take longer than needed. There's no reason to invite lower as it just makes stuff take longer to kill or give unessecary ( can't spell that word) risks.
So why do some people in /2 get so mad when you mention your ilvl requirements?

LFM Normal HFC. Need ring and iLvl 830+ only, link Mythic achiev.

The real answer is people want carries or ez-mode.

[Speedlance]

People who set obscene ilvl requirements to trivialize the dungeons is part of the problem that destroyed wow's great community. Limiting people's abilities like this is the reason we have LFR now.
Because without it people who dont pay for boost or have good gear will simply not get any groups or will rarely get groups.
Yeah you have the option to create your own group but some people just need too be carried a little bit and that should be fine. It should be ok to have that 810 ilvl "newbie" who does half the damage the tank does in your group.
People worry about speed and their own selfinterest instead of thinking about what made this game so good in the beginning.
I got ilvl 854, does that mean I should only bring 850+ geared people than?

[kaloryth]

I have heard that the main stats on the higher ilvl trump the 2ndary stats....smells fishy.

That isn't true for all classes. Arms warriors prioritize mastery higher than strength. Many classes have secondaries that are within 15% of their main stat.

[Aehl]

The one that made me laugh was in week one. A guy in Trade commented he had been declined for a Mythics group, reason? He hadnt cleared any Legion raids.

The fucking raids arent out yet.

[Uberkafros]

Asking 840-845 ilvl for "normal" mythics at this point is not for making a smooth run but to cover something fishy. These very same people would ask 895 ilvl to do LFR.
The solution is to make ofcourse your own party.