Democratic Election 2016 - Hillary Clinton Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Captain N]

I can't believe this has turned into another of Merkava's Benghazi threads. Hasn't that poor horse corpse been through enough?

Apparently for someone who claims not to blame Hillary Clinton for Benghazi he feels the need to keep kicking that horse in every thread that has to deal with her.

[Merkava]

Because the GOP was on a witch hunt. FBI exonerated Hillary and they still won't shut up about it.

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I actually have a real question for you about this - despite our past history of dialogue on this particular topic. What is your response to people pointing out that it was a GOP led Congress and Legislation that stripped a lot of security funding (hundreds of millions of dollars) for the State department that many people believe directly led to this incident?

(p.s. I just saw your summary re Benghazi - very succinct - thanks for reposting it, I had missed it before)

My response to that is it (the reduction in funding) clearly has an effect worldwide but it didn't have an impact on the security in Benghazi. Charlene Lamb testified to that. I could dig it up, but she said something to the effect that if there was need, they (the State Department) would move assets to cover the need.

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Apparently for someone who claims not to blame Hillary Clinton for Benghazi he feels the need to keep kicking that horse in every thread that has to deal with her.

I never said that I didn't blame her. I just said that I don't blame her for alot of the things that the GOP led circus has blamed her for. I'm very much not part of the "Hillary lied, people died," crowd.

Here's a post that I made on the same subject

If you're questioning the motives of people in positions of authority in the Obama administration, I have to take issue. I think Hillary's pretty much a terrible person. I think she's a liar, I think she's ruthless, I think she used her position as Secretary of State to benefit her foundation (which does a lot of great work, incidentally), and I think her entire political career has been nothing but therapy rewarded with sympathy for her husband's dallying. But I can't talk myself into believing anyone in the Obama administration would let Americans die.

I've said earlier on here how one of the emails released from her to her daughter the day of the attack shows that she knew it was a terrorist attack all along. I posted part of it earlier,

“Two of our officers were killed in Benghazi by an al Qaeda-like group..."

Here's the rest of it

...The Ambassador, whom I handpicked and a young communications officer on temporary duty w a wife and two young children. Very hard day and I fear more of the same tomorrow.”

That's a person, a human being with a sense of duty and responsibility who's grieving and filled with sorrow and thinking of the families and the people they lost. And there's absolutely no way she ever intended for this email to become public. Talk about the administration leaving Americans to die is shameful nonsense.

I'll answer any questions that you ask me. I think you'll find that my views on the matter are not that extreme as you maybe think them to be.

[Vynestra]

Welp, looks like polls are swinging more torwards trump, this could be really bad.

I'm starting to think even if the debate goes super well for clinton, that trump just needs to show up and hell get good media coverage.

I'm starting to genuinely panic. Trump could literally be our next president.

Right now she can win without OH/FL, but we need state polls in CO/NH/VA/PA/MI to know, if she loses any of those it's over unless she wins NV instead of NH.

Right now she can still win 272/266, but really I don't get how we will lose Florida..

[LilSaihah]

Clinton sent and received tens of thousands of emails over an email server that wasn't controlled by the state department. The GOP pushed for an investigation. Powel sent and received tens of thousands of emails over a server that wasn't controlled by the state dept. Why didn't they push for an investigation there?

I'm curious about this as well. I'd look up specifically what sort of laws regulate the handling of classified information in the state department but I have no idea where to start. What I'm somewhat suspecting is that laws were introduced which were relevant to the State Department while Hillary headed it, and they were not in law while Colin was heading it.

[hrugner]

If I'm reading the stories I link correctly, these are hacked DNC emails, most likely Russian hackers. I sincerely doubt they were looking for Powell's comments in that light.

I agree that this reveal doesn't do any favors for the "Russia is helping Trump defeat Hillary" theory.

[May90]

Welp, looks like polls are swinging more torwards trump, this could be really bad.

I'm starting to think even if the debate goes super well for clinton, that trump just needs to show up and hell get good media coverage.

I'm starting to genuinely panic. Trump could literally be our next president.

Right now she can win without OH/FL, but we need state polls in CO/NH/VA/PA/MI to know, if she loses any of those it's over unless she wins NV instead of NH.

Right now she can still win 272/266, but really I don't get how we will lose Florida..

The problem is, it is impossible to have a reasonable conversation with Trump. He never talks on the point: you can say whatever you want to him, but he will just shrug it off and respond with something completely random, having nothing to do with the topic. And people love his populist rhetoric, so, indeed, he just needs to show up on the debate, then his brain can go AFK for the entirety of the debate, and he still will do well.

[Breccia]

I can't believe this has turned into another of Merkava's Benghazi threads. Hasn't that poor horse corpse been through enough?

Good point. Anyone who thinks only American lives matter is worth going on the ignore list.

Oh, and I have to take back what I said about Trump being dignified. That lasted all of..(checks watch)...six hours. He's already taking digs again, despite the fact that she released medical records more detailed than he did.

Also, Obama's doctor was on CNN saying both candidates should get neurological tests done, Clinton because of the concussion and Trump -- I swear this is true -- because of his erratic behavior.

[LilSaihah]

Also, Obama's doctor was on CNN saying both candidates should get neurological tests done, Clinton because of the concussion and Trump -- I swear this is true -- because of his erratic behavior.

democrats have exhausted their entire supply of civilian-grade bantz and are now moving up to medical-grade

[Thepersona]

Welp, looks like polls are swinging more torwards trump, this could be really bad.

I'm starting to think even if the debate goes super well for clinton, that trump just needs to show up and hell get good media coverage.

I'm starting to genuinely panic. Trump could literally be our next president.

Right now she can win without OH/FL, but we need state polls in CO/NH/VA/PA/MI to know, if she loses any of those it's over unless she wins NV instead of NH.

Right now she can still win 272/266, but really I don't get how we will lose Florida..

she's up by 5 points. i think that after the debates we'll have a much more decent image of what would happen. and also, watch a state-by state polls, not the national ones.
and yeah, the thing is that everyone has set the bar for trump so low, that anything could'be considered a success

[Damajin]

To go back to the Foundation for a minute:

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/14/cl...ntments-video/

Clinton Foundation President: ‘No Question’ Donors Received ‘Courtesy Appointments’

The president of the Clinton Foundation admitted on Wednesday that there is “no question” that donors to the non-profit are helped out by the powerful former first family through “courtesy appointments.”

“There’s no question there were phone calls made to get appointments for people,” Donna Shalala told MSNBC host Andrea Mitchell in an interview.

Shalala was named president of the Clinton Foundation last year. As soon as she took over she was faced with withering criticism that the Clinton family entity was nothing more than a vehicle for the Clintons’ pocketbooks and political ambitions. Donald Trump and other Clinton critics have said that the charity is a “pay to play” scheme.

But Shalala, who was Bill Clinton’s first secretary of Health and Human Services, disputed that claim, saying that access was provided to well-known philanthropists like Bill Gates’ wife, Melinda.

“There were also business people, there’s no question about that,” Shalala acknowledged. “But I don’t see any evidence that there was policy decisions made as a result of that other than courtesy appointments.”

“People in public life are used to doing that kind of, that is making courtesy appointments for people. I certainly did it as secretary,” added Shalala, who was president of the University of Miami before taking over the Clinton Foundation.

“I don’t find it unusual. I do think we have to be careful, we have to be careful that it’s not linked to policy decisions as opposed to simply seeing prominent people that ask for appointments.”

There's a video on the page of the segment as well. So basically this lady is forced to admit there were 'courtesy appointments' but is bending over backwards to say that just because there was that they had no impact on policy at all, so if we take her at face value we can come to the conclusion that these are fluff appointments which is an outrageous waste of taxpayer money on top of being an overall poor management of a varying level of important positions, or we don't accept her line and we end up back at the original pay for play min/max investment issue that has dogged this Foundation and its' namesakes since forever.

Nice to have confirmation for those that have doubted that donors were slotted into the Machine at key spots depending on how much cash they flung at the Foundation.

[Blur4stuff]

republican witch hunt

This is why it's pointless to keep beating this dead horse of a conspiracy theory. A group of people who hate the Clintons more than anyone else on the planet used the full power of congress to try and ruin her. And they found nothing. It's time to give it up.

Conservative conspiracy theorists need to quit with this crazy bullshit and stick to the stuff she's actually done that's wrong and in plain sight.

[Orbitus]

To go back to the Foundation for a minute:



There's a video on the page of the segment as well. So basically this lady is forced to admit there were 'courtesy appointments' but is bending over backwards to say that just because there was that they had no impact on policy at all, so if we take her at face value we can come to the conclusion that these are fluff appointments which is an outrageous waste of taxpayer money on top of being an overall poor management of a varying level of important positions, or we don't accept her line and we end up back at the original pay for play min/max investment issue that has dogged this Foundation and its' namesakes since forever.

Nice to have confirmation for those that have doubted that donors were slotted into the Machine at key spots depending on how much cash they flung at the Foundation.

Sorry I don't believe a tabloid.

[Merkava]

Good point. Anyone who thinks only American lives matter is worth going on the ignore list.

That's cheap and pathetic. Even for you. I already addressed that. Maybe you missed it.

And it has nothing to do with American lives versus non American lives. It has everything to do with accountability.

If you're up to addressing any of the points that I actually made, feel free.

[Damajin]

Sorry I don't believe a tabloid.

The video clip and the quoted material is from NBC, grats on reading and viewing comprehensively. Nothing like URL bias blocking out any critical acknowledgement of easily confirmed quotations.

[jakeic]

The video clip and the quoted material is from NBC, grats on reading and viewing comprehensively. Nothing like URL bias blocking out any critical acknowledgement of easily confirmed quotations.

ok, so what state department policy was made from these clearly clandestine meetings?

[Damajin]

ok, so what state department policy was made from these clearly clandestine meetings?

You'd have to look at the recorded documentation of each specific appointee to determine that.

You clearly missed the point, or perhaps don't care that the entire pay for play thing against Hillary and her Foundation was outright confirmed then of course hand waved away as not being a big deal because one of the key people responsible for it for a time doesn't believe there's anything wrong with doing it and doesn't think that people in important positions were able to have any influence on State Dept. policy. So again either she's naïve, lying or is a participant in hiring empty suits to fill fluff positions that cost the taxpayers way too much. Any of those is bad enough in principle, but since there's been so much denouncing of the pay for play by Hillary and her cadre of defenders wherever they may be it's hysterical to have this drop on NBC of all places and come from the mouth of the Foundation President.

[Fasc]

Says the guy that got caught in blatant lies yesterday, this is fucking cute.

What lies? I post for awhile and then when I notice zero responses and go to bed that's that. You're gonna have to be specific instead of chortling about nothing...

...also people tend to ignore posts of mine instead of address them, makes for difficulty to be "caught in a lie" /snicker

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Clinton sent and received tens of thousands of emails over an email server that wasn't controlled by the state department. The GOP pushed for an investigation. Powel sent and received tens of thousands of emails over a server that wasn't controlled by the state dept. Why didn't they push for an investigation there?

This is the whataboutism that I'm talking about: it doesn't matter what Powell did or didn't do when it comes to discussing Hillary. It is possible to have erred in not investigating Powell. It is also possible it didn't matter for a host of reasons. None of that is relevant since the indictment against Hillary holds water all on its own.

Apparent hypocrisy doesn't actually make you wrong, that's just an informal reworking of the ad hominem fallacy. Even if 10 other Secretaries of State did what Powell and Hillary did and only Hillary was getting the inspection... it still holds water.

[Orbitus]

What lies? I post for awhile and then when I notice zero responses and go to bed that's that. You're gonna have to be specific instead of chortling about nothing...

...also people tend to ignore posts of mine instead of address them, makes for difficulty to be "caught in a lie" /snicker

Probably when you posted that you thought marriage, not holy matrimony, was a religious institution instead of a contract between 2 people and the government. Or when you thought religious institutions were being forced to perform these marriages, or when you thought that civil unions are the same as marriages and we would need to amend thousands of tax laws just to make a "separate but equal" law that is already unconstitutional? And when you were pointed out on it you were quite clearly defending the bullshit that I just pointed out. That you were wrong.

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This is the whataboutism that I'm talking about: it doesn't matter what Powell did or didn't do when it comes to discussing Hillary. It is possible to have erred in not investigating Powell. It is also possible it didn't matter for a host of reasons. None of that is relevant since the indictment against Hillary holds water all on its own.

Apparent hypocrisy doesn't actually make you wrong, that's just an informal reworking of the ad hominem fallacy. Even if 10 other Secretaries of State did what Powell and Hillary did and only Hillary was getting the inspection... it still holds water.

It isn't about the "whataboutism" bullshit that you keep saying. It is about the fact that they ONLY targeted Hillary because, and they even admitted this, that it would hurt her poll numbers. They didn't investigate Colin Powell even though he deleted ALL of his emails or Karl Rove that deleted 22 MILLION emails during an ongoing investigation.

They investigated Hillary, and cleared her. They won't investigate those 2 because they bat for the home team.

[Fasc]

Probably when you posted that you thought marriage, not holy matrimony, was a religious institution instead of a contract between 2 people and the government. Or when you thought religious institutions were being forced to perform these marriages, or when you thought that civil unions are the same as marriages and we would need to amend thousands of tax laws just to make a "separate but equal" law that is already unconstitutional? And when you were pointed out on it you were quite clearly defending the bullshit that I just pointed out. That you were wrong.

You mean people like Endus can't understand what a constitutional charge is, that people DID in fact understand my perspective and agreed, and that we all got off topic so the discussion was dropped entirely? I mean putting words in my mouth is nice and all but none of what you said actually happened unless you have literacy issues like those trying to be hyper technical with the counter factual hypothetical instead of working through it logically. Endus missed the point by a mile, as do many of those still trying to chime in on it later... so congratulations on being unable to read at all? /clap

It isn't about the "whataboutism" bullshit that you keep saying. It is about the fact that they ONLY targeted Hillary because, and they even admitted this, that it would hurt her poll numbers. They didn't investigate Colin Powell even though he deleted ALL of his emails or Karl Rove that deleted 22 MILLION emails during an ongoing investigation.

They investigated Hillary, and cleared her. They won't investigate those 2 because they bat for the home team.

You probably should understand what "whataboutism" actually is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

If you're going to attack an action/decision/thought process, referring to OTHER events doesn't actually do jack squat for you. An extreme version is having advocacy for cystic fibrosis be shut down because "what about breast cancer!!" It has no logical value. Attacking Hillary over mishandling of classified materials, even if it serves to reduce her poll numbers, is still legitimate as she mishandled classified materials. I get that you and others have never had to deal with confidential information because had you ever done so, you'd be far less flippant about its misuse. Unless you can bring EVIDENCE to the table that suggests having a private email server that is unsecured filled with classified information isn't a problem (and by evidence I mean find some statutes or common law to support your claim), then despite it being useful to the Republican cause, it is irrelevant that it is and the accusation stands.

[jakeic]

You'd have to look at the recorded documentation of each specific appointee to determine that.

You clearly missed the point, or perhaps don't care that the entire pay for play thing against Hillary and her Foundation was outright confirmed then of course hand waved away as not being a big deal because one of the key people responsible for it for a time doesn't believe there's anything wrong with doing it and doesn't think that people in important positions were able to have any influence on State Dept. policy. So again either she's naïve, lying or is a participant in hiring empty suits to fill fluff positions that cost the taxpayers way too much. Any of those is bad enough in principle, but since there's been so much denouncing of the pay for play by Hillary and her cadre of defenders wherever they may be it's hysterical to have this drop on NBC of all places and come from the mouth of the Foundation President.

so let's say all of that is right, why require a donation to the Clinton foundation rather than to her campaign or some other organization where she can use the money?