[7.0] Legion Discipline Priest Guide and Discussion

[anon5123]

Having a strong single target heal is fun, but wish there was bigger incentive to use those power word shields.

Yeah, PWS was nerfed way too hard. It has a cooldown now, so I don't see why it absorbs for shit amounts.

Pain Suppresion has a very long cooldown for such a short damage reduction, not sure about the reasoning behind that.

All damage reduction CDs had their cooldowns increased. Blizz said they don't want us relying on them too much.

Light's Wrath could use some extra power in 5 mans similar to Tranquility etc.

Mmhm, it hits like a wet noodle in 5mans; barely heals more than a Penance. It just leaves me thinking: "Seriously? This is our big, powerful artifact ability? Something that heals for 10-15% health on the group? What a ripoff."

Even holy's RNG-based one is way better, as it essentially gives you double healing for the next 15 seconds, and can proc repeatedly. Light's Wrath is just horribly underpowered, for a 90 second CD. Either buff it, or reduce the cooldown.

Power Word radience could be very frustrating raids, since it will apply to anyone missing a fraction of their health.

In my experience, it doesn't target people who are missing health, it targets people who are missing Atonement.

But yeah, the awkwardness of PWR targeting is one of my bigger gripes with Disc. Really needs some fine tuning.

[Izzirez]

- Having a strong single target heal is fun, but wish there was bigger incentive to use those power word shields.

Power Word: Shield should still be used on cooldown. It's not our largest heal anymore, but it is significant and applies atonement. I have had Power Word: Shield crit for 500k with grace.

- Pain Suppresion has a very long cooldown for such a short damage reduction, not sure about the reasoning behind that.

All damage reductions, besides druid Iron Bark, have a very long cooldown. This is intended to make smart usage of these important, and not just using them when they come off cooldown. However, I do view that as more of tank gameplay calling cooldowns than I do of our own.

- Light's Wrath could use some extra power in 5 mans similar to Tranquility etc.

Currently in 5 mans we have access to our hidden proc, Overloaded with Light. This gives us that added power. Yes, it is rare, but when it happens it is significant. I would be okay with that increase provided OwL stopped procing in competitive 5 man content (Mythics+).

- Power Word radience could be very frustrating raids, since it will apply to anyone missing a fraction of their health.

The way Power Word: Radiance works is based on distance. You target a person, and the 2 closest friendly targets within 25 yards of that person get healed by Power Word: Radiance and have Atonement applied to them. The only thing that changes that is if the closest targets already have Atonement, it will go to the next closest targets without Atonement within 25 yards of your target. If there are no targets without Atonement, it will refresh the Atonement on the closest targets.

[Deleted]

Question: is Haste the real winner between the stats?

What do i mean?

I mean

is 35% Haste 15% Crit better than 30% Haste 20% Crit?

is 40% Haste 20% Crit better than 35% Haste 15% Crit?

(other stats lower than Haste\Crit percentages)

[Izzirez]

Question: is Haste the real winner between the stats?

What do i mean?

I mean

is 35% Haste 15% Crit better than 30% Haste 20% Crit?

is 40% Haste 20% Crit better than 35% Haste 15% Crit?

(other stats lower than Haste\Crit percentages)

Yes, haste is the highest priority in our stats. The reason being that, not only does it increase hps through spellcasts like every other healer, it also increases our efficiency by allowing us to cast more spells within the window that we have atonements out on the raid before having to re-apply atonements.

[anon5123]

Currently in 5 mans we have access to our hidden proc, Overloaded with Light. This gives us that added power.

Er, no...a proc that happens once every 4-5 dungeons does not make up for the ability being shit the rest of the time.

[Izzirez]

Er, no...a proc that happens once every 4-5 dungeons does not make up for the ability being shit the rest of the time.

Except that the ability is not shit. Does it top off the group instantly? No. But it does do a large amount of healing, more than a Holy Word: Sanctity. Yes, the cooldown is long but disc provides lots of efficient healing. If you need burst, you are usually relegated to using Shadow Mend.

We can do up to +10 just fine, maybe later they will balance 5 man healers a bit better.

[anon5123]

But it does do a large amount of healing, more than a Holy Word: Sanctity.

...No it doesn't? At least, not in a 5man.

My Sanctify: 203k + 81k Echo of Light (40% mastery) = 285k

My Light's Wrath: Hits around 350-375k with 5 Atonements up, with 48% Atonement = ~174k

A 90 second CD heals almost half as much as a 60 second CD. (which can be reduced even further with artifact traits and spells cast)

Doesn't seem right to me.

Just like other big healing CDs, it's balanced around healing 10+ people in a raid. But for whatever reason, they didn't give it "heals 100% more when not in a raid" like Divine Hymn and Tranquility.

If it was a 45 or 60 second CD, it wouldn't be as bad. But for a 1:30 CD it's really weak.

[Totaltotemic]

...No it doesn't? At least, not in a 5man.

My Sanctify: 203k + 81k Echo of Light (40% mastery) = 285k

My Light's Wrath: Hits around 350-375k with 5 Atonements up, with 48% Atonement = ~174k

A 90 second CD heals almost half as much as a 60 second CD. (which can be reduced even further with artifact traits and spells cast)

Doesn't seem right to me.

Just like other big healing CDs, it's balanced around healing 10+ people in a raid. But for whatever reason, they didn't give it "heals 100% more when not in a raid" like Divine Hymn and Tranquility.

If it was a 45 or 60 second CD, it wouldn't be as bad. But for a 1:30 CD it's really weak.

Boy, it sure is convenient that you have secondary stats when you spec Holy, but magically don't have secondary stats when you spec Disc. I especially love how this is probably the third or fourth time that you've blatantly ignored the fact that you don't get to hit 5 people with Sanctify most of the time. Do you actually realize that this comparison is disingenuous and are doing it on purpose, or are you really suffering from cognitive dissonance this badly?

[Rife]

Boy, it sure is convenient that you have secondary stats when you spec Holy, but magically don't have secondary stats when you spec Disc.

Ironically this is coming from the guy that convinced everyone around here that Haste >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crit/Mastery.

Haste does literally NOTHING to increase the healing/damage from Light's Wrath in a dungeon.

So even though you're trying to be sarcastic you're actually correct in that a Disc that stacks haste has no secondary stats when they press Light's Wrath yet the Holy that stacks Mastery has 40%+ free healing added onto HW:Sanc.

[anon5123]

So even though you're trying to be sarcastic you're actually correct in that a Disc that stacks haste has no secondary stats when they press Light's Wrath yet the Holy that stacks Mastery has 40%+ free healing added onto HW:Sanc.

Stacking crit won't increase its damage either, because I'm looking at non-crit values.

But I'll humor you and add an extra 15% Mastery to make it 63% Atonement, that'd make Light's Wrath heal for ~228k, which is slightly more than base Sanctify, but still less than the total with Echo of Light.

Like I said, it seems that Light's Wrath is balanced so that it doesn't really start feeling like a strong CD until you have like 10+ Atonements out. In raids, sure, it seems like it's really strong. But in 5mans and especially solo questing, it's not much better than Penance, despite having 10x the cooldown.

I'd be fine with a "+100% healing when not in raids" like other big healing CDs got.

[Supliftz]

I feel like you've actually done zero M+ content if you truly believe you'll always be able to hit 5 people with a holy word sanctify cast.

But hey, whatever fits the narrative.

lets use the best case scenario for holy priests, and the worst case for disc priest!

- - - Updated - - -

Ironically this is coming from the guy that convinced everyone around here that Haste >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Crit/Mastery.

Haste does literally NOTHING to increase the healing/damage from Light's Wrath in a dungeon.

So even though you're trying to be sarcastic you're actually correct in that a Disc that stacks haste has no secondary stats when they press Light's Wrath yet the Holy that stacks Mastery has 40%+ free healing added onto HW:Sanc.

You make it sound like convincing people to go for optimal stats are a bad thing :O.

Anyway it's a good thing in the world of reality, holy word sanctify and light's wrath are not the only spells priests can cast. This is why this example is actually retarded.

[anon5123]

you truly believe you'll always be able to hit 5 people with a holy word sanctify cast.
Anyway it's a good thing in the world of reality, holy word sanctify and light's wrath are not the only spells priests can cast.

I never claimed either of these things.

I was looking at per-person healing, not total healing overall.

lets use the best case scenario for holy priests, and the worst case for disc priest!

What exactly is "worst case scenario" about 5 Atonements out?

I used 40% Mastery for Holy since that's realistically what you're going to have around 830 ilvl. And likewise, Disc does not stack Mastery, so Atonement is going to be somewhere around 50%.

I'd really enjoy if people could explain why I'm wrong without filling their posts with insults and passive aggressiveness.

[Djriff]

Mod Note: Let's tone it down a bit. No reason to just outright dismiss someone just because you think differently. No one will ever learn unless we are constructive with our criticisms.

[Rife]

My Sanctify: 203k + 81k Echo of Light (40% mastery) = 285k

My Light's Wrath: Hits around 350-375k with 5 Atonements up, with 48% Atonement = ~174k

I was curious so I did some napkin math of my own.

Setup:
- Cast PW:S on the tank
- Cast Plea on the farthest away DPS
- Cast PW:R
- Cast Lights Wrath

Looking at just Light's Wrath healing on 5 atonement targets in a 5 man:

Scenario 1:
ilvl: 845 & 30k sp
Haste: 10k (30.77%)
Mastery: 4k (29.15%)
Crit: 4k (16.43%)

Total cast time for all spells: 6.12 seconds
Total healing done via atonement: 3284% sp
Total damage done: 1271% sp

Scenario 2:
ilvl: 845 & 30k sp
Haste: 4k (12.31%)
Mastery: 4k (29.15%)
Crit: 10k (33.57%)

Total cast time for all spells: 7.14 seconds
Total healing done via atonement: 3767% sp
Total damage done: 1459% sp

Scenario 3:
ilvl: 845 & 30k sp
Haste: 4k (12.31%)
Mastery: 10k (54.86%)
Crit: 4k (16.43%)

Total cast time for all spells: 7.14 seconds
Total healing done via atonement: 3938% sp
Total damage done: 1271% sp

Compared to haste; crit did 15% more damage and healing but took 17% longer to do it.
Compared to haste; mastery did 20% more healing but took 17% longer to do it.

The haste build can fit 1 more PWR into a 15 second atonement window which makes Light's Wrath (~15%) better with haste and 18 targets than crit or mastery with 15 due to how the 10% buff scales. That's assuming you're not overhealing and have the 71k extra mana to spend.

The mastery and crit builds are better than haste for Penance though because it doesn't scale with #atonements like LW does.

Overall part of the reason that Lights Wrath can feel lackluster is Discs are stacking the only secondary stat that does nothing for the spell itself and does the least healing via atonement in any situation in which you're not spamming PWR for blanket atonement coverage.

FWIW if you can stack Crit or Mastery and still hit 18 atonements for Light's Wrath with either contrition or PI you'll do ~20% more healing via Atonement with Light's Wrath than you would with haste stacked instead.

Obviously take this with a grain of salt as I haven't included PtW, MB or heaps of other shit.

EDIT: Fixed to account for Light's Wrath 10% buff per atonement.

[pseudoJ]

Currently in 5 mans we have access to our hidden proc, Overloaded with Light. This gives us that added power. Yes, it is rare, but when it happens it is significant. I would be okay with that increase provided OwL stopped procing in competitive 5 man content (Mythics+).

You cant really be serious about considering this a a "real" (for the lack of better word) mechanic we have access to. That thing will proc like once or twice a day (or not at all, as it happened to me today). It's really more of a fun gimmick. This may be the most fanboy-ish argument I have heard so far (and I am somebody whos opinion is that discipline has issues, however it is still a decent healer who at least for now can handle mythics fine).

[Izzirez]

You cant really be serious about considering this a a "real" (for the lack of better word) mechanic we have access to. That thing will proc like once or twice a day (or not at all, as it happened to me today). It's really more of a fun gimmick. This may be the most fanboy-ish argument I have heard so far (and I am somebody whos opinion is that discipline has issues, however it is still a decent healer who at least for now can handle mythics fine).

Try nearly every dungeon. I can pretty much count on having it for the last boss every time. As I stated before, I would have no problem with them giving us an increase in 5 mans, but I don't think its absolutely needed at this point. We are able to do Mythic+10. Anything further than that is usually min/maxing to a large degree.

[Awsumpossum]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already, but what're your thoughts on neck enchants? I read awhile ago to pursue the Haste/Crit enchant, but would Satyr or Priestess be worth considering at this point?

[Simulacrum]

Power Word: Shield should still be used on cooldown. It's not our largest heal anymore, but it is significant and applies atonement. I have had Power Word: Shield crit for 500k with grace.

Why would I use it on cooldown? It 'heals' significantly less than shadow mend for when you need lots of HPS, and costs way more mana than plea for when you just want to apply atonement. Only situation it seems good in is when you have the opportunity to preemptively shield someone who's about to take massive damage or when you have to do a lot of healing while moving, which are hardly 'on cooldown' situations. I mean, it's slightly more mana efficient than shadow mend, but that's hardly an issue in 5 mans.

[Supliftz]

I never claimed either of these things.

I was looking at per-person healing, not total healing overall

Per-person healing for Sanctify is stupid, because it's extremely unlikely you'll be able to consistently hit 5 people in a dungeon setting. This isn't the case for atonement because atonement spreading has a far bigger range, and atonement application can be weaved into the rotation easily.

What exactly is "worst case scenario" about 5 Atonements out?

Because you're not factoring in any of the other cds disc has. It's pretty fucking unlikely you would only use light's wrath in a burst healing scenario. That's why comparing the output of light's wrath vs sanctify is just stupid.

I used 40% Mastery for Holy since that's realistically what you're going to have around 830 ilvl. And likewise, Disc does not stack Mastery, so Atonement is going to be somewhere around 50%.

Does disc not have any secondary stats in your example lol? Just because haste doesn't effect light's wrath healing, doesn't mean it does not benefit disc hps at all within a burst window. Not only are you casting more total spells within a burst window, but your shadow word pain and mindbender do far more healing.

I'd really enjoy if people could explain why I'm wrong without filling their posts with insults and passive aggressiveness.

Rofl okay buddy. Are you seriously trying to imply people aren't replying to your arguments? People are treating you like this because you are simply saying wrong things over and over. People can only handle someone being dumb for so long.

[anon5123]

Per-person healing for Sanctify is stupid, because it's extremely unlikely you'll be able to consistently hit 5 people in a dungeon setting.

....again, I never claimed to hit 5 people with Sanctify. The numbers I listed are for 1 target. Sanctify heals 203k + 81k Echo of Light on each target.

Because you're not factoring in any of the other cds disc has.

Because I'm not looking at "other CDs", I'm looking at Light's Wrath.

Does disc not have any secondary stats in your example lol?

The only secondary stat that directly affects Light's Wrath healing amount is Mastery, and I said "48% atonement".

Rofl okay buddy. Are you seriously trying to imply people aren't replying to your arguments? People are treating you like this because you are simply saying wrong things over and over. People can only handle someone being dumb for so long.

You can reply to my arguments without filling your post with insults.