Mythic+ loot nerfed from 5 pieces to 2

[Gorsameth]

What worries me more than quantity of loot (that can be easily adjusted, as it was in WoD) is its quality. I mean, on the opening week it's 850, on par with normal mode of the raid coming out, and below HC mode. Next week it will be able to climb to 865 - on par with HC raid gear, but below Mythic.

If that's the way it is, then Blizzard seems to have chickened out. They claimed that Mythic+ will be an alternative to raiding (gearwise), but it's clearly always a level below it. What's more, I don't see how it starting with 850 max ilvl loot makes any sense, since most players going for it in the first week are over 840 already, and will find very little upgrades. Especially since 850 is the ilvl of crafted gear that can be perfectly itemized.

Guess we shall see.

Except for the bit where your weekly chest gives a mythic level raid item if your clearing high enough mythic+ (10).
You get 1 mythic raid ilvl item per week from doing mythic+ dungeons.
It is still an alternative to raiding.

[ChickenChaser]

sadly this - for the first time in forever 5 mens were supposed to be decent alternative - now they are complete garbage combined with limited duraction of keystone and no way to target dungeons for mythic +

raiding once again fucked over rest of the game

mythic + were such a chance with those changes they are garbage f u blizzard. no wonder Metzen left he sees no future for wow.

Getting 3-4x more loot on average per person than Raids was not balanced at all... You say you want a decent alternative?

5x raid quality pieces every 30 minutes for only 5 people to split vs spending 30 minutes on a raid boss for 5 pieces of loot among 25-30 people how is that balanced?

at 2 pieces its relatively close to balanced time per piece of gear per person vs raids.

Not to mention the weekly chest gives you a Free piece every week 100%. mythic 1-5= 865? mythic 6-8=870 mythic 9=875 Mythic 10 or higher 880

[Violetti]

Getting 3-4x more loot on average per person than Raids was not balanced at all... You say you want a decent alternative?

And with no lockout.
In the short term, this is hurting the raiders the most.

[Baconeggcheese]

Thanks raiders for complaining until Blizzard gives into your demands.

Raid or die with dipping sauce of 5 mans and world content I guess.

Out of curiousity, how do you figure this has anything to do with raiders?

[Dawnrage]

Can this myth of "raiding is hard" go away please?
Nothing in this game is hard, it's a MMO with DBM that literally plays the game for you and gives you play by play step by step tutorials of how to do bosses mid fight. Raids are tested months in advanced by top10 raiders and videos/guides/DBM are posted minute1 of the raids being released.

The only difficult part of this game is finding 19 other people who aren't drooling idiots and can do more than press wasd and 1 at the same time.

People who think "this game is hard so I should get rewarded doing hard content only" need a reality check.

If you were rewarded for only doing the "Hardest content" in the game, this game would have less than 100k subs.

Gear is too powerful to lock the best behind mythic bosses only. We tried that in WOD, it was a massive failure. The reward for killing the bosses on mythic should be..get this, KILLING THE BOSS ON MYTHIC. There should only be 5-10% power gap between mythic raiders and a non-raider who plays as much, but simply doesn't have the desire to do mythic raiding. Everyone should have enough gear to do all content in the game at any time as long as they put in enough time playing the game. Gear matters too much for it be some special mythic raider only thing.

I mean, shouldn't mythic raiders WANT everyone to be geared for a bigger player pool of potential recruits? Or do you want people who don't mythic raid to be 50% weaker than you(like wod) and you have to drag them through mythic raids for a month to gear them up(and probably bail immediately after they get gear). Do you really want a smaller pool of players to recruit from when you need more players for your raid?

I don't think you do. Please think about this more clearly.

At this point I'm fairly certain you are just delusional and want stuff handed to you on a silver platter. Where do I even begin with everything you said?

Mythic raiding isn't hard depending on the type of player you are, but it is the hardest pve content the game has to offer, by far. Saying otherwise just makes you seem really ignorant. I'm guessing you have never done an actual mythic raid that was relevant.

Time and time again, you don't seem to understand that gearing up in mythic+ doesn't prevent you from "the best loot", all it does is prevent you from gearing up as fast as someone doing mythic raiding ON AVERAGE - if you were lucky or the mythic raider was unlucky you could very well easily outgear him, especially when legendaries are as strong as they are and are completely random.

You are insinuating that WoD's "failure" was due to gearing being gated behind raiding, when this has always been the case in past expansions, even the popular ones - if anything, you have a far easier time gearing up now than you do if you did not raid in previous expansions and unlike previous expansions, you can actually potentially get the same or better ilvl than a mythic raider now if you don't raid.

You are up in arms on the forums making a big fuss about loot from 5 mans and go on to say that mythic raiders should just be happy they are killing mythic bosses and not caring about what they get for the amount of time and effort they put into it? That's what we call irony, buddy.

And finally, no, don't even bring recruitment into this to try to appeal to the raider side of things. If someone has mythic raiding aspirations, they would simply gear up from heroic raids and have actual raiding experience and knowledge of the fights (Which by the way, is about a 100x times more important than what their gear level is for the majority of mythic guilds - you would know this if you raided), just like previous expansions. Again, you fail to realize that Legion has simplified this process by a TON if anything, making it easier for people to get into raiding just because of how much easier it will be to gear up now compared to past expansions.

Why make up all this bullshit? Just come out and say it - you want easy gear that a mythic raider (Let's ignore that he plays way more or does way harder content because who gives a shit right? Those things don't matter) gets because you pay $15 a month like everyone else does, so you deserve it. That's exactly what this all boils down to and you are just making excuses at this point.

[netherflame]

This change breaks any form of Mythic+ being an alternate progression path to mythic raiding.

I remember plenty of times where the gear that dropped got DE'd because nobody of that type needed it.....looks just like raiding to me.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Out of curiousity, how do you figure this has anything to do with raiders?

Only people who endlessly complained about it.

- - - Updated - - -

At this point I'm fairly certain you are just delusional and want stuff handed to you on a silver platter. Where do I even begin with everything you said?

Mythic raiding isn't hard depending on the type of player you are, but it is the hardest pve content the game has to offer, by far. Saying otherwise just makes you seem really ignorant. I'm guessing you have never done an actual mythic raid that was relevant.

Time and time again, you don't seem to understand that gearing up in mythic+ doesn't prevent you from "the best loot", all it does is prevent you from gearing up as fast as someone doing mythic raiding ON AVERAGE - if you were lucky or the mythic raider was unlucky you could very well easily outgear him, especially when legendaries are as strong as they are and are completely random.

You are insinuating that WoD's "failure" was due to gearing being gated behind raiding, when this has always been the case in past expansions, even the popular ones - if anything, you have a far easier time gearing up now than you do if you did not raid in previous expansions and unlike previous expansions, you can actually potentially get the same or better ilvl than a mythic raider now if you don't raid.

You are up in arms on the forums making a big fuss about loot from 5 mans and go on to say that mythic raiders should just be happy they are killing mythic bosses and not caring about what they get for the amount of time and effort they put into it? That's what we call irony, buddy.

And finally, no, don't even bring recruitment into this to try to appeal to the raider side of things. If someone has mythic raiding aspirations, they would simply gear up from heroic raids and have actual raiding experience and knowledge of the fights (Which by the way, is about a 100x times more important than what their gear level is for the majority of mythic guilds - you would know this if you raided), just like previous expansions. Again, you fail to realize that Legion has simplified this process by a TON if anything, making it easier for people to get into raiding just because of how much easier it will be to gear up now compared to past expansions.

Why make up all this bullshit? Just come out and say it - you want easy gear that a mythic raider (Let's ignore that he plays way more or does way harder content because who gives a shit right? Those things don't matter) gets because you pay $15 a month like everyone else does, so you deserve it. That's exactly what this all boils down to and you are just making excuses at this point.

I'm a pvper and it's massively more difficult than any raids, I don't ask to have the best gear as a pvper. I also could easily do mythic raids if I wanted to, as I did heroic raids during WOTLK.
Drop the attitude of thinking I want everything handed to me.

[Dawnrage]

I'm a pvper and it's massively more difficult than any raids, I don't ask to have the best gear as a pvper. I also could easily do mythic raids if I wanted to, as I did heroic raids during WOTLK.
Drop the attitude of thinking I want everything handed to me.

Kind of hard when everything you keep mentioning is about wanting the simplicity of getting gear. At no point have you made any suggestions to the system and improving it, rewarding skill, or anything of the sort - everything you have said can be boiled down to "GIMME GIMME GIMME!".

And that's great you PvP, I PvP too. I think PvP is harder on a mechanical and personal level, but I disagree that mythic raiding is not hard overall compared to PvP. Mythic raiding takes a different kind of instinct and skillset compared to PvP, and it's not something everyone is good at, even if someone is good at PvP. Not to mention the logistics behind it all. Comparing the two is impossible to be honest.

[Baconeggcheese]

Only people who endlessly complained about it.

I haven't seen that personally, and this change doesn't change the fact that my guild plans for each of us to have to do 30+ of these dungeons next week.

Not really sure in what world this change has anything to do with raiders.

[Deleted]

Only people who endlessly complained about it.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm a pvper and it's massively more difficult than any raids, I don't ask to have the best gear as a pvper. I also could easily do mythic raids if I wanted to, as I did heroic raids during WOTLK.
Drop the attitude of thinking I want everything handed to me.

If you are a pvper, why do you even care about this change?

Saying that mythic is easy based on heroic wotlk raiding experience is honestly just ignorant.

Take it from me if you think that mythics are easy, considering I have 5 gladiator titles and am currently raiding mythic.

I think pvp requires more in terms of individual skill and foresight whereas pve requires more dedication and consistency, making both difficult at their own level.

Could high level pvp players step into mythic and do well within a few weeks? Sure

Having said that, untill you get that 2.7 or gladiator title you really can't say with a straight face that you are a high level pvper.

[Sentynel]

Stop with the special snowflake raiding crap. Gear and ilvl matters far too much for mythic raiders to have an advantage over anyone.
Mythic raider A plays for 100 hours a month
Mythic + dungeon player B plays for 100 hours a month
World quest player C plays for 100 hours a month
Ranked PVPer D plays for 100 hours a month
Players A,B,C and D should all be rewarded with the same gear within 5-10% of each other. End of story.

Plain wrong.

If I afksit 100 hours a month in Stormwind should I get rewarded with Mythic gear? Ofc not.

[Gorsameth]

I haven't seen that personally, and this change doesn't change the fact that my guild plans for each of us to have to do 30+ of these dungeons next week.

Not really sure in what world this change has anything to do with raiders.

Because people complained that there was infinite 'easily farm-able' high end loot in the game.
It was a potential problem that was shared by prominent members of the community.
These prominent members are often raiders.

Hence some people blame it on raiders, rather then seeing that the very concept of infinite high level farm-able loot is a toxic problem for the game, regardless of play preference or ability.

[Potatolight]

Does that mean that wf/tf is also capped at 850?

[Anon56]

Can this myth of "raiding is hard" go away please?

That's why you are at 1/13 nm and 8/13 hm on HFC while you did LFR multiples times right ?

I'm a pvper and it's massively more difficult than any raids

You have no arena ratings, no rated bg ratings. You're not a pvper you're a casual killing time in random BG. I don't even know what you are doing in this thread, you have no challenge mode either, you won't get past MM5 anyway.

[Deleted]

Good first step towards the removal of this mythic+ cancer from the game.

I'm masturbating while drinking ShiyoKozukis salty tears
Infracted;

[ShiyoKozuki]

That's why you are at 1/13 nm and 8/13 hm on HFC while you did LFR multiples times right ?



You have no arena ratings, no rated bg ratings. You're not a pvper you're a casual killing time in random BG. I don't even know what you are doing in this thread, you have no challenge mode either, you won't get past MM5 anyway.

I have AOTC, 2,400+ arenas, heroic arthas before 4.0, rbg gladiator, and hwl on this account. Does armory not work properly or are people incapable of looking at armory properly? Really weird.
Ad hominem attacks are also pointless and add nothing to a discussion.

[Laerez]

I have AOTC, 2,400+ arenas, heroic arthas before 4.0, rbg gladiator, and hwl on this account. Does armory not work properly or are people incapable of looking at armory properly? Really weird.
Ad hominem attacks are also pointless and add nothing to a discussion.

You don't see us complaining that getting a rank 1 PVP title is hard and we should all get it for spamming BG's and skirmishes.

If you want the reward you have to do the work. That's how life works.

[ShiyoKozuki]

You don't see us complaining that getting a rank 1 PVP title is hard and we should all get it for spamming BG's and skirmishes.

If you want the reward you have to do the work. That's how life works.

No.
Gear =/= rank1 title.
Gear is too powerful for mythic raiders to have such a gigantic ilvl advantage.

I'm done arguing though! Good luck.

[Lady Mormont]

I have AOTC, 2,400+ arenas, heroic arthas before 4.0, rbg gladiator, and hwl on this account. Does armory not work properly or are people incapable of looking at armory properly? Really weird.
Ad hominem attacks are also pointless and add nothing to a discussion.

According to your armory from your signature:

Lich King kills: Normal 10 (7/11/10), Heroic 10 (no kill), Heroic 25 (11/25/14) - No HEROIC kills when they were current
AOTC kills: HFC (5/10/16) - end of expansion after it being out for a year

On topic:
This is an issue of a combination of time and difficulty, having played around in BETA, I can tell you in apporpriate gear, Mythic Raiding is drastically harder than Mythic+.
Just like its not guaranteed you will get loot after a boss kill in a raid, it should not be guaranteed you get loot after every mythic+ clear. Especially since you can theoretically run as many mythic+ as you want for loot but you can only run a mythic raid once for loot, and even then its not guaranteed you will clear all bosses. I don't understand what is so hard about this..... And this is coming from a filthy casual who doesn't have time to dedicate to Mythic Raiding anymore....

[munkeyinorbit]

There's two scenarios with this. Either the person who spends his keystone gets guaranteed loot. Then the other piece of loot is randomized between the rest of the members. Or you have the chance that you can use your keystone and not get any loot at all. That's fun right?

If it's scenario one then that breaks the thing many groups was going to do which was switch out one member of the group and use that persons keystone to get another shot at loot. In this scenario it means you give 50% of the loot to one random person who most likely won't be able to loot share because of it being an upgrade. Then the other piece of loot has to roll TF, has to be a slot where it is an upgrade to an armor type that is an upgrade to someone in the group.

This change breaks any form of Mythic+ being an alternate progression path to mythic raiding.

Bullshit it does, when will casuals stop complaining about not getting guaranteed free loot. It was ridiculous to think that you could do a dungeon and get guaranteed loot. Don't like it? Stick to your world quests.