Why do some people get so mad over ilvl requirements?

[Deleted]

I have been reading this thread for a few pages and obviously most arguments that have been said many times are being recycled left right and center. Having said that, heres a short compilation of why requiring high ilevel is a good idea:
1. It quite significantly increases the CHANCE of having a good player who knows what he is doing and does good dps
2. While Ilevel is imperfect (because of sub-optimal stat allocation, set bonusses and trinkets) is is the BEST metric for skill that doesn't require a lot of time looking up. What other metrics would you use to determine if someone should be in your group or not, besides achievements (which is a whole other can of worms that people hate even more).

Having said that, heres an argument in favor of using ilevel that I havn't heard before: it helps to attract scarce tanks and healers.

Right now, with the massive overflow of dps compared to tanks and healers, it is really hard to find a group as a DPS, hence they are the ones mostly making the groups.
Even if you are a dps and require 820 (which is a totally reasonable ilevel for mythics) you will quite often find that tanks and healers will avoid your group in favor of other groups, especially since leaders are quite often willing to bargain with their requirements if it means getting a tank earlier (for me, I can require 840+ and being on the same armor profisciency as me easily without taking an excessive amount of time to find someone, whereas I am willing to accept 820+ tanks no questions asked).

To the people saying that mythics can be done at 800 ilevel: you are absolutely right!
I was one of the people who leveled in 3 days and then went mythics at ~810 item level with my guild/friends, we went in pretty much blind and cleared all mythics in 2 days by pretty much winging it without knowing the tactics, across all mythics there are only 1-2 dps checks and healer mana is rarely an issue so if you just make sure to stay out of the shit you are able to kill most bosses on the first try without to many issues.

However, those people like me are now all 845+ ilevel and I promise you that the average ~800 ilevel player right now is unable to do the feats we did, simply because they are less skilled at the game than me and my friends.

Having said that, currently gearing up is a joke:
I hit level 110 on my monk on sunday and cleared all 8 mythics on monday after spending ~15k gold on gear to get me to 805, I was a healer and leader of the group and by just telling the tank to take it slow on the pulls and keep an eye on my mana I went from 780-828 in a single day while only having a handfull of wipes across the entire instance. This was done almost fully through pugs (though I did have 1-2 guildy dps step in).The ease of doing mythics, combined with a lot of 820/835 boe pieces being sold which were obtained through world quests (before they were nerfed) makes it really easy to get 840+, which is ready to raid in heroics, with very little effort.

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People who set obscene ilvl requirements to trivialize the dungeons is part of the problem that destroyed wow's great community. Limiting people's abilities like this is the reason we have LFR now.
Because without it people who dont pay for boost or have good gear will simply not get any groups or will rarely get groups.
Yeah you have the option to create your own group but some people just need too be carried a little bit and that should be fine. It should be ok to have that 810 ilvl "newbie" who does half the damage the tank does in your group.
People worry about speed and their own selfinterest instead of thinking about what made this game so good in the beginning.
I got ilvl 854, does that mean I should only bring 850+ geared people than?

Please link me the armory of your 854 character, I call massive BS on this since the highest possible Ilevel atm is 856, which is assuming you got a legendary and full 850 gear, including 3 850 slots in your artifact

[Velerios]

830 is the minimum for mythic, heck, even the blizzard-tool says 830 when you create a new group. But everything above is only lazy. I'm at 833 now as a healer, and i wouldn't join any group that requires above 830, even if i have already the equipment-requirement, because in most cases there's somebody who doesn't have the requirement and only want to be lazy around.

As we see that often only people look for 840+ and more but didn't activated the filter for it, simply because blizzard doesn't allow people to ask for higher ilvl-requirement as the one who created the group already has.

Everyone above 830 is simply lazy and i don't join them.

[Mlz]

People who set obscene ilvl requirements to trivialize the dungeons is part of the problem that destroyed wow's great community. Limiting people's abilities like this is the reason we have LFR now.

People who don't pull their weight since they simply don't care and expect to get carried create the problem where everyone is asking retarded ilvls. You think anyone cared what ilvl someone has if everyone who got an invite actually pulled their fingers out of their asses? I get what you mean in general and in theory it's all nice and sound. I (or probably anyone else) wouldn't mind carrying a friend or a random through something knowing they actually tried to fulfil their role even if they were pretty horrible. But in most cases such people who fail left and right just don't give a fuck - they are eating their dinner, watching netflix with one eye, chatting with their mum or whatever and well, if they can't respect other people's time and focus for 20 minutes then fuck them, they can make their own 810 groups and afk through a dungeon by the end of the next year.

Besides, it's pretty damn easy to get 830 ilvl and anyone can pull acceptable dps for their spec with 5-button classes. If you're not doing that then you're either a) retarded and it's okay as long as you let your group know ahead or b) slacking, in which case refer to my previous paragraph.

[Betelgeuse]

Great, can you show me how I can make sure the 797 Ilvl people I accept into my groups are exactly the same as you and not a bunch of mouth breathers before I actually accept them into the group?

Hmmm, good point. Back in early Wrath and BC you would give somebody a chance, if they were bad you never run with them again. Now with the alt explosion, you never know who you are playing with anymore. I guess it's like searching for a unicorn. I hear there are some in Azsuna...

[IIamaKing]

I'm sure you're being snarky, and I'm sure that it stuns you that a "low item level scrub" like me actually thinks about this...but yes, it's something to consider.

If Haste is my best secondary, is 5 item levels worth of main stat worth trading it for my worst secondary? In a vacuum? If a breakpoint is involved? With a certain talent? I don't know.

Or on my Windwalker, if I have a Relic with +Fists of Fury damage, is it worth trading it out for a +1 item level relic without it? What if it's +2 item levels? How many?

But yes, I'm sure you're just thinking, "You have a low item level, shut up, noob."

I said "smells fishy" because I am not sure, I get the idea behind the notion, I just done get into the theory/sim crafting to know.

[melodramocracy]

There is no way that I'm going to call it "carrying" when the content requires X and someone else is doing X but I'm doing X+1. That just reeks of some kind of need to step on others to validate oneself or something, I don't even know.

It really is all about ego. It's why lower geared players are considered scrubs, though the currently well geared player never thought of himself as that at the same level. It's why "I'm just looking for a smooth run" is the same exact level of entitlement as a low level player wanting to catch a break.

People hate to admit that sort of thing though

[Banquetto]

This is, pretty much true 99% of the time. People don't bother to look because "840 is good enough for me". I COULD be 840 right now if I wanted to be, but I refuse to equip gear that isn't stat-ed for me. If the Agi increase is worth it, then sure, often times it's not.

Why not set up a "max ilvl" gear set and a "proper" gear set in the Equipment Manager? Use the first for getting an invite, switch to the second once you arrive at the instance.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Honestly, ILVL needs to be hidden to a point.
I think they should make it so that party leaders can't require a certain ilvl to join and when people sign up it shows an ilvl intended to run said content(by blizzard) and a plus sign.

Like if you join a premade finder group for a mythic, Blizzard sets it to 810+ only, and you're ilvl 820, the party leader should only see "ILVL 810+" on his list. That way people won't wait around for higher ilvl and always pick whoever is highest.

Of course, I bet mods would ruin this, because mods are garbage.

[Stabatya]

Couple of days ago I posted "LFM heroic legendary farm, 840+ please" as a 850 resto sham. I got absolutely spammed with hate from countless randoms but 2 minutes later I had a 840+ group clearing heroics in about 10 minutes per, that's a win imo.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Because items don't really work that way?

I can have 820 ilvl with the right type of stats, and I will outperform myself in 840 gear because of bad itemization inferior stat choices.

.

No, secondaries do not matter this much. +10 ilvls of main stat and bad secondaries will beat -10 BIS secondaries the majority of the time.

Your comment is only 100% accurate on rings/necks.

[Ragedaug]

My "fake point" of what?

Your fake point of "Everyone is mean in this game!! QQ"

[ShiyoKozuki]

A lot of socials and filthy casuals slack off for the first 2 weeks and cry when their ilvl is pathetically low at like 820 and they cant get into mythics to get boosted. They just need to learn their place in the food chain. Take an 820 bad casual player or an 840 better player which hasn't slacked off for 2 weeks

820 is 10 ilvls higher than is needed to clear mythics efficiently.

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Then make the group yourself. Or is THAT to much of a job too?

People bitching about having a low ilvl and not being allowed into higher ilvl groups are coming off quite lazy and entitled in this thread.

People wanting smooth fast runs with equally geared players are not the bad guys.

My Ilvl is 848. I make every group and only play with friends(because pugs aren't fun).

[Deleted]

With warforged and titanforged items dropping everywhere, its so easy to get 830+ without ever stepping into mythic dungeons. It requires minor effort.

[Deleted]

I'm 832 ilvl and I plan to start running mythics now.
I'm a very decent player, but work has been crazy so I only have time to do a few world quests and log off...

I play a healer so hopefully I won't have too much of a hard time finding groups this weekend

[chronia]

Prolly because some of the ilvl asking is just rediculous. I mean 830-840 for a mythic run or run(s) where you dont know the player(s) should be fine, and very reasonable.

But also some stuff i've seen the last few days ppl asking 840+ for a random heroic, or stuff like 820-825+ for some normal WQ / Proff Q dungeon run.

i'm at 851 myself, so no issues getting into stuff, but come on, set some reasonable ilvl req's for the content you want to do, to me it just look silly to ask 840+ for heroics for example, makes me think not to group with that player as seemingly he cannot do content at the intended ilvl and needs to get boosted.

[Raidenwins]

Because idiots in group finder put requirements equal to the gear ilvl that drops in the dungeon. It's dumb, and incredible overkill, and it makes me think you just want gear to carry your lack of skill.

[Deleted]

The worst one is when theres group asking for 830+ and im sat at 849 and get declined.

[kamuimac]

The worst one is when theres group asking for 830+ and im sat at 849 and get declined.

because i know that it may shock you there is plenty of 850 + people quing in there already with more desired classes/spec combination.

[Deleted]

This thread is the core of what have become with the modern world of warcraft and is what going to bring it into fall.

The ilvl is not a messure of how good people are but if you have a few mythic items it shows atleast that you have done the dungeon. That doesn't mean you have understod the fights in there.

Just by reading the posts in here do alot of people think their time and their skills are so much more important/better then everyone elses.

I've been playing this game since it came out and been raiding on high level. The fights in the dungeons are usually pretty basic and similair to other encounters. But how shall new players learn these fights, what can be better then taking time explaining things if they fail during encounters. If their damage is to low don't hesitate to give them feedback and maybe offer them help to get better. Who knows you might have gotten a friend and a new good player. This is the core differance between Vanilla and Legion.

About DPS, the numbers on recount/skada doesn't show target switching and doing the encounter right. Be a team member instead of a one man/woman show.

Now if your gear is 840+ and are in a raiding guild with plans on raiding then why not go with your friend you are going to raid with. If you arn't in a raiding guild or have friends to do mythic. Then it's even more reason to work on your social skills and a good start is to work on your empathy to others.

[Noxina]

820 is 10 ilvls higher than is needed to clear mythics efficiently.

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My Ilvl is 848. I make every group and only play with friends(because pugs aren't fun).

"Efficiently", with 810 ilvl you will actually have to pull slow and well, do the whole shit slow. Instead of just zerging it down, which is what pretty much everyone is doing now simply because they have cleared all Mythics 2-3 times.

Also getting to 830 is piss easy if you just do your world quests and do dungeons while doing so. Oh and also do your Suramar stuff to get Revered there asap (Everyone should be that by now, if you cared about getting geared before raids) and you can buy so much gear from your Order Hall and upgrade it with Resources.