[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[justflayin]

That 2pc nerf...ouch.

[Relapses]

That 2pc nerf...ouch.

Nerfing our toys before we even get to play with them.

[Yvaelle]

Would you say you've...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

...surrendered to madness?

^{I'll see myself out.}

The ASCII made it great for me

[Kilee25]

It's just that, objectively, people seem more unhappy now than they did at the start of WoD. People are still making huge sweeping suggestions for changing the spec weeks after it got pushed to live. That kind of unrest just blows my mind. I'm trying to understand why. At this point in the release cycle, all my energy would just be focused on the good, and finding something to like about the new choices. Is it perhaps that it's some kind of "mob" mentality?

Honest question - if offered would you just take WoD style shadow back at this point? Because the level of discontent feels worse than that. If the answer is no, then what's different this time around? Why is this iteration striking such a stronger cord with players?

[Relapses]

It's just that, objectively, people seem more unhappy now than they did at the start of WoD. People are still making huge sweeping suggestions for changing the spec weeks after it got pushed to live. That kind of unrest just blows my mind. I'm trying to understand why. At this point in the release cycle, all my energy would just be focused on the good, and finding something to like about the new choices. Is it perhaps that it's some kind of "mob" mentality?

Honest question - if offered would you just take WoD style shadow back at this point? Because the level of discontent feels worse than that. If the answer is no, then what's different this time around? Why is this iteration striking such a stronger cord with players?

I'd honestly settle for Halo or Cascade being added back to our kit. (And Spectral Guise, but that's just a convenience/QoL perk.)

[Dawnrage]

It's just that, objectively, people seem more unhappy now than they did at the start of WoD. People are still making huge sweeping suggestions for changing the spec weeks after it got pushed to live. That kind of unrest just blows my mind. I'm trying to understand why. At this point in the release cycle, all my energy would just be focused on the good, and finding something to like about the new choices. Is it perhaps that it's some kind of "mob" mentality?

Honest question - if offered would you just take WoD style shadow back at this point? Because the level of discontent feels worse than that. If the answer is no, then what's different this time around? Why is this iteration striking such a stronger cord with players?

If you looked at that one thread asking about whether people liked the shadow changes, it's mostly positive than negative, and that's pretty surprising considering that people would be more prone to being upset at the spec as a whole when they don't feel it's up to par - so I personally think most people actually like the changes.

But the issue is simply numbers (at least for PvE, PvP is a whole other bag of worms where we are just getting trained on with no way to get away with our toolkit). It doesn't matter if a spec is the most fun in the world on any given fight, and then you take a look at the damage meter and you are dead last by a huge margin. No one plays the game to be dead-weight (at least, I hope not). It's demoralizing knowing that you are not contributing to the group and they would be far better off with some other spec in there.

Of course, that's an exaggeration because shadow is only really weak at AoE and cleave situations (which there are an abundance of in Legion 5 mans, but I digress), but that's not how the game works. For players, especially those that don't raid or have a guild, playing a "weak spec" will simply just cause you many problems down the line, where you are getting denied groups simply because that is the stigma behind your spec, and not because people actually know if it's true or not to give you a chance to prove yourself. At this point, I would say this is the case for shadow and the path it's headed down on. As time goes on and more people get into mythic (and mythic+) and get even more gear, shadow will just fall further behind. Bringing marginally better single target is not enough when you are going to be worse in every other situation in a 5 man.

Playing for fun is good and all, but even for the most casual of casual players, that novelty wears off eventually, and all it takes is one bad situation - like someone in a group questioning your DPS for example - and you will start questioning why you are putting yourself through this when you can simply play something else, have almost or just as much fun, and at least be competitive.

[Ysgarthiad]

Anyone else happy about the mythic+ nerf? Now I wont have to worry about running that shit as a shadowpriest.

[Shraug]

845 Caged Horror, or 840 Gnarled Root? Tested both, and can't tell if the mastery is beating Gnarled Root's proc.

[Relapses]

Thoughts on Eyasu's Mulligan ?

Edit:

7.1 blood elfs get insanity with AT now haha.

...with the crafted JC neck, BElf SPriests can get 45 Insanity on-demand. RIP Horde/Alliance balanced racials.

[BobAwesome]

Oh come on, we've already been called "one of the most toxic community of all the specs"

This has literally, never happened. I believe you are confusing the Priest community with the Mage community. In fact, the Priest community is known as the most docile community.

[Romanticide]

7.1 blood elfs get insanity with AT now haha.

Oh lord. Time to race change AGAIN.

[Dawnrage]

845 Caged Horror, or 840 Gnarled Root? Tested both, and can't tell if the mastery is beating Gnarled Root's proc.

Messed with both too, root should beat cage horror consistently on single target, and even two targets if they live long enough. Horror is better for 3+ (as long as they are stacked) and burst AoE like on adds that will die quick. I would use Caged Horror personally because

1) the stats are better on it, with it being 845 and all. Mastery beats versatility but not by much though.

2) it will be better for most trash pulls given how fast stuff dies and are stacked up, plus root's proc might go to waste since it has to tick over 6 seconds.

3) if you get a string of lucky procs on single target, it can match or beat root in 5 mans with how short the boss fights are.

For longer raid fights, I would go with root on single target, but devilsaur shock baton beats it pretty handily with it's proc being instant and it having crit instead even with root doing shadow damage, so if you can get one that's similiar or close in ilvl, that's the better option imo.

This is my own personal testing so take it with a grain of salt.

- - - Updated - - -

Thoughts on Eyasu's Mulligan ?

Seems extremely nice on a 1 minute 5 man boss fight even if you roll a bad stat like versatility or mastery. For raiding, I think it might be better than a pure stat stick though there's RNG involved obviously. Having 5550 of a stat during the final 20 seconds of S2M can be pretty insane.

[Deleted]

When it comes down to ideas on how to improve shadow as a spec, I would much rather see people explain what they do/don't enjoy about the spec, rather than try and suggest alternative spell ideas. The developers are there for a reason: to think about spell/talents. It is more important for them to hear about our general concerns.

If you have access to the EU forums, please try and post in this thread: http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613373762

I am trying to get a central thread on EU for concerns about the class, so that devs have one reference point.

[Gorsameth]

When it comes down to ideas on how to improve shadow as a spec, I would much rather see people explain what they do/don't enjoy about the spec, rather than try and suggest alternative spell ideas. The developers are there for a reason: to think about spell/talents. It is more important for them to hear about our general concerns.

If you have access to the EU forums, please try and post in this thread: http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17613373762

I am trying to get a central thread on EU for concerns about the class, so that devs have one reference point.

What people do not like has been yelled out a billion times by now.

We do not like having less aoe dps then a holy priest.

[Deleted]

What people do not like has been yelled out a billion times by now.

We do not like having less aoe dps then a holy priest.

I know it's been said a lot. But it needs to be constantly repeated until the devs actually take notice, and response somehow. I'm just trying to help my class, rather than be defeated. Having one central thread for feedback is also easier than multiple threads for people to read through.

[Ilir]

So they're gonna nerf us to the ground just because of StM making it even more mandatory for raid ? Don't they see the issue ?

[Palaryel]

So they're gonna nerf us to the ground just because of StM making it even more mandatory for raid ? Don't they see the issue ?

StM + Mass Hysteria is a combo that gets out of control very easily, and despite being really good isn't something that's healthy for the class, since it prevents many possible buffs. They need to rework either (or both) and then buff us accordingly

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[Ilir]

StM + Mass Hysteria is a combo that gets out of control very easily, and despite being really good isn't something that's healthy for the class, since it prevents many possible buffs. They need to rework either (or both) and then buff us accordingly

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Yup exactly my point. But by nerfing everything outside of STM + MH interaction they are effectively nerfing the rest of the level 100 talents (that are already garbage) to the ground and thus making StM even the number 1 choice.


They could easily put a cap on MH with StM like 50 stacks so you only get 100% dot damage increase instead of 200% but I think they are just going to nerf MH to : each stack of VF increase your dot damage by 1% instead of 2%. nerfing the spec altogether.

Too bad no one told them that StM would be a balance nightmare /s

[Deleted]

I wonder if there will be a point where someone will actually say "Well you see? In raids shadows are top DDs just as we said they would!" or if we're nerfed to acceptable damage before raids even hit. I guess I'm just better off to learn how to heal, such a downer.

[Palaryel]

The issue is that StM and MH are strong only over a relatively long duration, short to mid term they do very little, hence we suffer on short to mid duration fights.

They should buff voidform stack bonus and MH bonus, while reducing maximum voidform uptime and ramp up time. Which means to turn our dps to a series of short burst and downtime phases, instead of long ramp up phases as it is atm.

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