Now I know why D3 influences WoW so much.

[Kokolums]

D3 is dull because its single player.

D2 is amazing because its a lot of fun and holds a playerbase without Blizzard adding any major new content since 2000. 16 years! How can it DO that? Doesn't that fly in the face of everything developers say when they assert that you need to add new content to keep players from getting bored? The reason D2 can do that is because it is social. You have a chatroom lobby. You have big 8 player games where players interact. Probably the most addicting aspect is the early game where there's a lot of advantages in grouping up to clear tristram or clear act 1 or do tomb runs.

D2 proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't need new content at all. You need a multiplayer experience. You need strong social tools.

Then you look at WoW and they add new content and revamp old content like CRAZY and the playerbase keeps shrinking. But that's because they murdered the in-game community, restricted and cut off in game chat, and made it as antisocial as possible. They go oh look MoP is amazing the raids are great the content is polished and NO-ONE plays?!?!? How can that be? Because you don't talk to anyone ever!

[Coldkil]

D2 proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't need new content at all. You need a multiplayer experience. You need strong social tools.

Agree only partially. Bots, duped items, third party sites, running the same bosses over and over and over.

I had more fun playing sp and self-found to be honest. There was no need for socializing in D2 and there is even less reason in D3. D2 is awesome because you could play it any way you want, and efficiency is only a prerequisite if you feel it so. Item hunt is rewarding and takes time. You feel your character is truly yours.

In D3 this has disappeared due to some bad design choices (imho). Sets being the build defining items made the pool of useful items consistently smaller and people simply don't get to choose/design theoir builds. Item hunt happens only at start, then it's rinse/repeat greater rifts for that ancient or level up gems. And that doesn't give you much apart passive damage bonuses which don't add anything to gameplay.

I like much more D3 loot system than D2 tbh. I can truly play and don't need anyone else - which is something a lot of people loves. Not everyone likes multiplayer.

Social is a great thing. Having it would be awesome. But the problems in D3 are not related to that - at least now. There are major issues in character building/progression that makes the game worth for the majority of people only for "hit and run" experiences.

[BenBos]

Diablo 3 is the game with the lowest longevity in the fucking world, with people playing it 1-2 weeks at most twice a year, or something like that...

Something is very, very wrong with that game, and i hope they keep most of its failed, uninteresting features out of wow.

The reason is simple: I predicted this game would die when they deleted ALL trading.

It shows. In the first 2 years D3 still was in the top 10 of Twtich showings every day.

Now D3 ranks in position 100 something, behind D2 most of the time.

The game lost its LONG TERM PLAY due to 1. no trading and 2. no challenge, since you can tweak difficulty ... which makes grinding meaningless.


Have a nice day.

[Deleted]

The reason is simple: I predicted this game would die when they deleted ALL trading.

It shows. In the first 2 years D3 still was in the top 10 of Twtich showings every day.

Now D3 ranks in position 100 something, behind D2 most of the time.

The game lost its LONG TERM PLAY due to 1. no trading and 2. no challenge, since you can tweak difficulty ... which makes grinding meaningless.


Have a nice day.

Yeah, they removed any incentive for farming item drops - which at least for me killed the game. Adding the cube and the free set on season start to that made it even worse. I don't even bother updating D3 anymore nowadays. And I think I have several thousand hours played.

[Flurryfang]

The reason is simple: I predicted this game would die when they deleted ALL trading.

It shows. In the first 2 years D3 still was in the top 10 of Twtich showings every day.

Now D3 ranks in position 100 something, behind D2 most of the time.

The game lost its LONG TERM PLAY due to 1. no trading and 2. no challenge, since you can tweak difficulty ... which makes grinding meaningless.


Have a nice day.

Yet it is still one of the most played games out there. D3 is a very succesfull game to this day, because it has embraced its destiny: People are not gonna play the game for longer then a couple of weeks. So the designers have focused on making seasons with a small amount of content for everybody, which makes players come back for a few weeks and play for an extreme amount of hours in those weeks. For a single player game, with no competative aspect, it is amazing that people are still playing the game once in a while. This is a sign of very good game, which people return to.

Also, Twitch has nothing to do with how succesfull a game is. A game can be very good and succesfull, yet not enjoyable to watch. Hearthstone is enjoyable to watch, but wow is not, yet WoW has proberly more dedicated players then Hearthstone. If you look at some of Blizzards numbers, you can see that the number of people who watch hearthstone on twitch, is actually not connected to the amount of concurrent players. Some people just enjoy to watch some games, where others enjoy to play them.

[BenBos]

Yet it is still one of the most played games out there. D3 is a very succesfull game to this day, because it has embraced its destiny: People are not gonna play the game for longer then a couple of weeks. So the designers have focused on making seasons with a small amount of content for everybody, which makes players come back for a few weeks and play for an extreme amount of hours in those weeks. For a single player game, with no competative aspect, it is amazing that people are still playing the game once in a while. This is a sign of very good game, which people return to.

Also, Twitch has nothing to do with how succesfull a game is. A game can be very good and succesfull, yet not enjoyable to watch. Hearthstone is enjoyable to watch, but wow is not, yet WoW has proberly more dedicated players then Hearthstone. If you look at some of Blizzards numbers, you can see that the number of people who watch hearthstone on twitch, is actually not connected to the amount of concurrent players. Some people just enjoy to watch some games, where others enjoy to play them.

Please stop inventing things.

Diablo3 was a GIANT HIT on Twitch in its first 1.5 years... The moment they made the idiotic decision to delete all trading you saw the gliding downward.

So D3 was once a great hit on that Show, now everyone abandoned it, the streamers, the watchers and of course the players.

All logical too: no long term sencitive to play. Simple.

[Flurryfang]

Please stop inventing things.

Diablo3 was a GIANT HIT on Twitch in its first 1.5 years... The moment they made the idiotic decision to delete all trading you saw the gliding downward.

So D3 was once a great hit on that Show, now everyone abandoned it, the streamers, the watchers and of course the players.

All logical too: no long term sencitive to play. Simple.

Yet people still play it. Nearly half of my 100+ battle.net friends play D3 on a weekly basis, which for a very old game, is quite amazing. It seems like people are putting D3 up against games like WoW and the newest CoD, which is really insane when you see what they are all about.

D3 is a single player, which have sold a huge amount= Succes. The expansion Reaper of Souls proberly sold just as much, so D3 is very popular and is still compared to other single player titels. That somebody is even playing it, even though it has next to O multiplayer interaction, is amazing.

I do agree, that not being able to trade between the players was a dum thing, but it has been traded with a high rate of legendary drops, which make it nearly unneeded. You can pretty much get any gear piece you want, if you just play for a few days in the GR system. And this works, since items can be sold or traded.

And just to say it again: Twitch views does not have to have any connection to succes.

[Blackmist]

They've certainly made melee abilities feel a lot meatier in WoW this expansion.

I wish they'd take that demon hunter double jump and apply that principle to other classes though. Some *optional* shortcuts to certain class abilities would be nice. Double tap a movement key to blink/roll/disengage in that direction. Crtl+movement key to activate a speed boost. That kind of thing. It annoys me when these things are on different shortcuts, when there's probably a way to integrate them more naturally.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

Recently cameback to the D3 and hell yeah I don't even bother logging to WoW now.

Strong visuals/sounds
Fast paced gameplay
Simple class mechanics
Challenging enemies
Powerful set bonuses/milestones
Multiple builds, with each pros and cons
Having to build your own gameplay with what you have
Big ballz group content with greater Rifts

I never thought I would enjoy grinding, but yeah those core items are so strong that when you have them, feeling the impact of slashing through stuff. I went for Impale DH and got 6set, Impale/Fan of Knives daggers and an ancient super duber quiver that I haven't seen in builds.

Already have my Multishot/RoV weapons, multiple set items and cannot wait to build/swap when I such ballz on a massive AoE.

Boy bosses melt down with this impale..

I hope WoW will take more from D3.

Challenging enemies...
Big balls group content with greater Rifts...

Sure...

[Super Kami Dende]

Please stop inventing things.

Diablo3 was a GIANT HIT on Twitch in its first 1.5 years... The moment they made the idiotic decision to delete all trading you saw the gliding downward.

So D3 was once a great hit on that Show, now everyone abandoned it, the streamers, the watchers and of course the players.

All logical too: no long term sencitive to play. Simple.

Trading wouldn't bring any sort of long term incentive to D3. Also, it still has big surges of popularity usually the first month or 2 of each season, then dies down for a few months and starts again.

[Coldkil]

Please stop inventing things.

Diablo3 was a GIANT HIT on Twitch in its first 1.5 years... The moment they made the idiotic decision to delete all trading you saw the gliding downward.

So D3 was once a great hit on that Show, now everyone abandoned it, the streamers, the watchers and of course the players.

All logical too: no long term sencitive to play. Simple.

Again your crusade against the removal of trading? It's become pretty stale at this point.

Howevery i plenty agree with you with one point: D3 has literally ZERO incentive on long term play. Millions of people still play D3 and combat/skills system is pretty damn good.

Fact is that all this people just play for very short periods due to seasons; most players just jump for the stash tab and are done in a couple of days, some for the journey and a small % for the ladders. There's nothing to do other than that.

Also worth mentioning that at this point the novelty of seasons/fresh start is becoming pretty stale too. This season journey was artificially prolonged (and not even that much actually) by the new t11-t13 difficulties and the requirement of 3x50 caldesann. It's been a month for me, counting 2 weeks of holiday with no pc and total complete casual play. I should check the played time to see how much actually it takes.

[BenBos]

Again your crusade against the removal of trading? It's become pretty stale at this point.

Howevery i plenty agree with you with one point: D3 has literally ZERO incentive on long term play. Millions of people still play D3 and combat/skills system is pretty damn good.

Fact is that all this people just play for very short periods due to seasons; most players just jump for the stash tab and are done in a couple of days, some for the journey and a small % for the ladders. There's nothing to do other than that.

Also worth mentioning that at this point the novelty of seasons/fresh start is becoming pretty stale too. This season journey was artificially prolonged (and not even that much actually) by the new t11-t13 difficulties and the requirement of 3x50 caldesann. It's been a month for me, counting 2 weeks of holiday with no pc and total complete casual play. I should check the played time to see how much actually it takes.

Sure you can call out my trading posts "stale", but in the end no one can deny D3 has no long term incentive.


Now for ONCE read the following:

1. Imagine a Diablo hack&slash where you have perma death WITH trading ....Everyone dies when taking far too many risks...

2. A grinding coupled with a trading system where you craft new gear and supplies for all those that did die and restart...

3. You no longer need to grind just for you, but you gain gold for helping and crafting other gear sets and other classes.

4. Get rid of these ridiculous dozen scaling difficulties where grinding has hardly any meaning these days.

5. EVE is thriving on these things for more than a decade ... and it still is popular by its players with players deciding the value of constructions and mats to try to survive...



D3 HAD all of this and even more within an extreme FUN action combat game. D3 in its first year was great in that I could craft leveling gear for all my friends who died in hardcore.

I could CHOOSE how and what to grind and sell it in a GOLD ONLY market so my avatars could SLOWLY but surely beat these end bosses at my own pace and with my own grinding and trading system.


No wonder Twitch was a SUCCESS for Diablo3 in its first 1.5 years ...

These days the game is dead 6 days after a new meaningless season restart, no more popular streamers, no more followers except a few dozen who simply can't part. At some days MORE Twitch viewers watch D2 instead of D3...


/... And yep I predicted it, years ago, and so it is easy to prove where they killed long term play (as in say 10-15 months play...).

So you may call my arguments stale, but they are in fact true, the game has absolutely no long term meaning at all.

D3 was a marvellous hardcore game in its first 1.5 years, now it just sits there as a complete and meaningless time waster. Meaningless as its solo gliding difficulty settings were its final death knell.

Children won the battle. Rob Pardo was DECADES ahead with his Diablo trading design.

We will just have to wait another decade before eyes will open up again...

[bbr]

I prefer my leveling system:

1. start a level 1
2. levels come fairly quickly (so it feels rewarding)
3. When you reach max level, you can opt to try an epic quest (that is very challenging) and tuned so that people can fail.
4. If you succeed in your attempt, you get a choice of 1 of a number of special skills, spells, bonuses, and perks. You also get reset to level 1 and lose all your gear.
5. If you fail, you get reset to level 1 and lose all your gear.

1-4 are reasonable, and already implemented in a variety of games (dragon tavern?),. however, point 5 is just unrealistic.

Also,. 1-4 would not fit into a game like diablo, where gear is pretty much the whole game / progression for your character once you reach max level.