Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[dcc626]

[QUOTE=TheRogue;42335465]nerfs and buffs to a set we dont see til 7.2 [/QUOT

nighthold is out in 7.1 - lilely in january.

[TheRogue]

7.1 is the inbetween patch. Karazhan and Trial of Valor. Nighthold is after.

[Won7on]

Couple of questions:

1) What do y'all do when True Bearing reduces AR down so much that it comes up 40-45 seconds before Curse? Holding it for 40 seconds feels shitty, but popping it early doesn't seem to do much (and makes Curse feel really week after). I've tried popping it early hoping for another full reset in 45 seconds, but this is very difficult without something like Buried Treasure + Broadsides + True Bearing.

2) Also, has there been any work done to see what the best RtB logic is for openers? Seems like "always reroll until 2" wouldn't apply there because, for example, Broadsides is garbage during Curse, while True Bearing has a much higher value, etc.

3) SimC showed Haste as my top stat, but stacking Haste (to 7230 at the moment) has led me to a situation where I find it pretty much impossible to NOT energy cap during AR. This gets even worse with Hero/Lust or Buried Treasure. That's without Alacrity, even. Feels like the theory might get overwritten by practical limitations in cases like these, and another stat may be better than Haste.

[Deleted]

TFW your initial MfD gives you 1 buff and your entire dread blades duration of solely RTB gives you 1 buff. Goodbye deeps

[Deefame]

TFW your initial MfD gives you 1 buff and your entire dread blades duration of solely RTB gives you 1 buff. Goodbye deeps

You reroll RTB with COTB?

[shaunika123]

Couple of questions:

1) What do y'all do when True Bearing reduces AR down so much that it comes up 40-45 seconds before Curse? Holding it for 40 seconds feels shitty, but popping it early doesn't seem to do much (and makes Curse feel really week after). I've tried popping it early hoping for another full reset in 45 seconds, but this is very difficult without something like Buried Treasure + Broadsides + True Bearing.

2) Also, has there been any work done to see what the best RtB logic is for openers? Seems like "always reroll until 2" wouldn't apply there because, for example, Broadsides is garbage during Curse, while True Bearing has a much higher value, etc.

3) SimC showed Haste as my top stat, but stacking Haste (to 7230 at the moment) has led me to a situation where I find it pretty much impossible to NOT energy cap during AR. This gets even worse with Hero/Lust or Buried Treasure. That's without Alacrity, even. Feels like the theory might get overwritten by practical limitations in cases like these, and another stat may be better than Haste.

1. it's generally better to just use everything on CD, only hold on to AR if you wouldnt be able to use it another time
2. yes buried and BS are garbage during full CDs, just try to get one of the other 4 or 2+ in your opener and reroll after CotDB expires
3. sim yourself again i guarantee you haste wont be your best stat, it's only your best stat till you get like 10-15% of it, even then versa is better, just stack versa and try to get haste/crit more or less equal

[Todesbote]

You reroll RTB with COTB?

Why wouldn't he? MfD -> Rtb -> AR & CotDB -> SS -> Rtb or RT if already 2 buffs -> SS -> repeat

That's what I'm doing. Is that wrong?

[Deleted]

Why wouldn't he? MfD -> Rtb -> AR & CotDB -> SS -> Rtb or RT if already 2 buffs -> SS -> repeat

That's what I'm doing. Is that wrong?

Kind of.
Use Ambush -> Ghostly > SS > PS = 6 CP -> rtb

if good buffs u can get a full cp RT from Mfd, then pop cds and enjoy.
If not you can instantly reroll with your mfd with 6 CP and not just 5 from your opener.

Just answering that question but I actually started this reply because I have a question myself.

Hey everybody,

since our Bis Trinket is Chaos Talisman which drops from the last Boss in Violet Hold. I bet some of you can clarify things.

The following question crossed my mind after obtaining it.

How do I use cooldowns with that trinket ?
I won't even bother mentioning Heroic.

But let's assume we are doing Mythic+ bosses. I don't have any Beta experience but I imagine Bossfights are about 1 to ~ 3 mins ?

So the idea is to let the trinket stack. On the other hand Alacrity will stack really, really slow.

Are Alacrity Stacks superior to the Chaos Talisman stacks ?
Even though Agi > Haste of course, without enough Haste we pretty much find ourselves on the very bottom of Damagemeters, because we have more than 26% downtime and I literally have windows of 2 seconds where i can't do anything. No Pistol Shot proc, bad buffs.


Or do we just go Ham with Cd's as usual, build stacks and hope that we can get another rotation of cooldowns ?

I also do not mention how to use CD's in Raids because it is obvious that we pop CD's asap or where we need them.


Simulationcraft can obviously tell me the best stats, gear etc. but not the playstyle. Or does it have a function where I can see the rotation which was used ?
I remember something like that when I simmed a lot, back in WoD. Or did I use warcraftlogs to compare rotations from the best rogues ?
I can't really remember. Thanks for any replies and clarification!

[pwf]

So the idea is to let the trinket stack. On the other hand Alacrity will stack really, really slow.

Are Alacrity Stacks superior to the Chaos Talisman stacks ?
Even though Agi > Haste of course, without enough Haste we pretty much find ourselves on the very bottom of Damagemeters, because we have more than 26% downtime and I literally have windows of 2 seconds where i can't do anything. No Pistol Shot proc, bad buffs.


Or do we just go Ham with Cd's as usual, build stacks and hope that we can get another rotation of cooldowns ?

I also do not mention how to use CD's in Raids because it is obvious that we pop CD's asap or where we need them.


Simulationcraft can obviously tell me the best stats, gear etc. but not the playstyle. Or does it have a function where I can see the rotation which was used ?
I remember something like that when I simmed a lot, back in WoD. Or did I use warcraftlogs to compare rotations from the best rogues ?
I can't really remember. Thanks for any replies and clarification!

I changed my simc script to wait for 20 stacks of chaotic energy and it was ~3k dps loss.

[Deleted]

I changed my simc script to wait for 20 stacks of chaotic energy and it was ~3k dps loss.

so that is actually possible.
Ill have a look myself, thanks !

[Lustrick]

Why wouldn't he? MfD -> Rtb -> AR & CotDB -> SS -> Rtb or RT if already 2 buffs -> SS -> repeat

That's what I'm doing. Is that wrong?

Using AR & CotDB to reroll is a bad idea. You should obtain 2 favorable buffs before popping your cds for maxing out your RT output.

[Roiids]

Using AR & CotDB to reroll is a bad idea. You should obtain 2 favorable buffs before popping your cds for maxing out your RT output.

In a perfect world you would... but doesn't work like that.

[Deleted]

Now this is nowhere enough testing to be accurate, but I did some tests for fun and these are the results I came to.

http : // imgur . com/a/2sozH

Ghostly Strike - 201.5k DPS
Swordmaster - 232.8k DPS
Quick Draw - 220.5k DPS
7 minutes on the training dummy.

I must either be really bad playing with Ghost Strike or have had extremly unlucky rolls, because it can't be 20k dps lower than the other talents.

[Deleted]

Now this is nowhere enough testing to be accurate, but I did some tests for fun and these are the results I came to.

http : // imgur . com/a/2sozH

Ghostly Strike - 201.5k DPS
Swordmaster - 232.8k DPS
Quick Draw - 220.5k DPS
7 minutes on the training dummy.

I must either be really bad playing with Ghost Strike or have had extremly unlucky rolls, because it can't be 20k dps lower than the other talents.

What was your Ghostly Strike uptime?

Also the rolls definitely affected it a lot, 1 7min test of each will have different rolls.

[Deleted]

What was your Ghostly Strike uptime?

Also the rolls definitely affected it a lot, 1 7min test of each will have different rolls.

Uptime was something like 96%, did another test and managed 207.0k DPS, I feel that when I roll shit and have to reroll a lot of times that the other 2 talents help with that, it can be incredibly slow with Ghostly.

Also, if I run Deeper Stratagem and have 5CP with Broadside buff, should I Saber Slash and "waste" one CP or use Run Through on 5?

[Sephiroso]

Uptime was something like 96%, did another test and managed 207.0k DPS, I feel that when I roll shit and have to reroll a lot of times that the other 2 talents help with that, it can be incredibly slow with Ghostly.

Also, if I run Deeper Stratagem and have 5CP with Broadside buff, should I Saber Slash and "waste" one CP or use Run Through on 5?

If you have 5cp and broadsides and use SS, you're not just wasting "1cp", you're wasting a potential 3 cp. So you definitely would not use SS at 5cp w/ broadsides, even without broadsides, i still wouldn't use SS at 5cp personally.

[Tyrarolls]

you always finish with 5cp+ to avoid wasting (potential) cp's. no matter what

[Xanatu]

Now this is nowhere enough testing to be accurate, but I did some tests for fun and these are the results I came to.

http : // imgur . com/a/2sozH

Ghostly Strike - 201.5k DPS
Swordmaster - 232.8k DPS
Quick Draw - 220.5k DPS
7 minutes on the training dummy.

I must either be really bad playing with Ghost Strike or have had extremly unlucky rolls, because it can't be 20k dps lower than the other talents.

Here's a set of every mythic dungeon boss with one rogue running GS and one not. Same skill level, my gear is a bit better but not substantially. GS wins by a mile. Look how much the average hit goes up by. This'll skew towards GS because of burst phase but still. It's substantial.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...9L2Frg#boss=-2

[Deleted]

Here's a set of every mythic dungeon boss with one rogue running GS and one not. Same skill level, my gear is a bit better but not substantially. GS wins by a mile. Look how much the average hit goes up by. This'll skew towards GS because of burst phase but still. It's substantial.

Thanks for the logs, my haste is quite shit so I guess that's why it feels extra clunky right now. Anyways I'll have to try GS out in some Mythics.

[Roiids]

Thanks for the logs, my haste is quite shit so I guess that's why it feels extra clunky right now. Anyways I'll have to try GS out in some Mythics.

In the case of target switching for mechanics and adds like you should though... Ghostly will fall behind.