The F-35 Guides Missiles Without Firing a Shot

[Ulmita]

The US has the ability to jam VHF and UHF radars. The latest AGM-88 has GPS and millimeter wave terminal guidance as well as passive radar guidance.

How do they jam radars in enemy territory? Also, the radar installations are well protected from such attacks by multiple layers of a/a

[Kellhound]

That money was borrowed from the FUCKING CHINESE for weapons designed to defend against the Chinese. Any reasonable mind would realize this is total BS. If the Chinese wanted attack the United States they would call in their IOU's

China only owns a small percentage of US Public debt.

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The Russians already have this tech, as do you. This is just it being added to the F-35, there's noting innovative about it.




I am, the fact our politicians are using our taxes to keep your defence contractors employed at the same time our contractors are begging India to buy the naval variant of the Typhoon is borderline treasonous.




IIRC you bought them off McDonnell Douglas who bought a license to produce them, and improved them too

Even the best Harriers are only better than no fixed wing aircraft....

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I believe (although I might be wrong) that we sold a lot of our Harriers to the US for spares when they were retired from service.

Yes we did.

[Pann]

Funny thing, the F-117 could only carry 2 weapons (it only had 2 hardpoints).

Brilliant! So $200million buys you an aircraft that is as capable as one from 30 years ago.

[Kellhound]

How do they jam radars in enemy territory? Also, the radar installations are well protected from such attacks by multiple layers of a/a

Same way you jam anything, with a jammer....

I forget, Russian SAM operators are smart, and US SEAD operator are stupid......

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Brilliant! So $200million buys you an aircraft that is as capable as one from 30 years ago.

~$90 million fly away cost actually, and it is faster, longer ranged, has FAR better avionics, more advanced RCS reduction, self defense capability, and the ability to function as a bomb truck in a low threat environment.

[Ulmita]

Once again, Ulmi's answer to everything is NUKES!!!! I am so glad the world's leaders are not that stupid.

Its not my answer, its any nuclear power answer. You need to be completely retarded to send your airforce against invading carrier groups.
And you are stupid, not the world leaders. Putin had said he was ready to use nukes to defend crimea and he also lowered recently the threshold of using nukes.

You are in your own imaginary world imagining shit as always. USA "stronk", rest of the world poop.

I am asking you this very simple question: If you ever tried to invade Russia, (because such war is only possible by you trying to bully them) would they be wrong on if they sunk your carrier groups with nukes YES OR NO?

[Independent voter]

Its not my answer, its any nuclear power answer. You need to be completely retarded to send your airforce against invading carrier groups.
And you are stupid, not the world leaders. Putin had said he was ready to use nukes to defend crimea and he also lowered recently the threshold of using nukes.

You are in your own imaginary world imagining shit as always. USA "stronk", rest of the world poop.

I am asking you this very simple question: If you ever tried to invade Russia, (because such war is only possible by you trying to bully them) would they be wrong on if they sunk your carrier groups with nukes YES OR NO?

No one will use nukes in the next war, just like no one used nerve gas in the second.

[Ulmita]

Same way you jam anything, with a jammer....

I forget, Russian SAM operators are smart, and US SEAD operator are stupid......

Good luck trying to jam a thing that transmits in 100's of kw or even over 1mw of power. come and tell me how well it went

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No one will use nukes in the next war, just like no one used nerve gas in the second.

If everyone was certain as you mr Hubcap there would be a USA -Russia war already, but guess what. It is the nuclear deterrence (aka getting nuked in response) that kept peace lasting so long and certainly not yours or kells wishful thinking.

[Pann]

~$90 million fly away cost actually, and it is faster, longer ranged, has FAR better avionics, more advanced RCS reduction, self defense capability, and the ability to function as a bomb truck in a low threat environment.

Latest estimates put the cost at $148 million for the F35A, $351million for the B and $337million for the C. If the estimated total cost of $400billion is correct this would put the average price of each aircraft ordered at over $162million.

[Tierbook]

I wonder if going the other way with stealth would work, rather than making your radar cross section smaller why not make it larger? I mean the intention is to make it impossible to find you when they know your there that should work right? So long as they can't lock onto you the results the same.

[Gaaz]

The US has the ability to jam VHF and UHF radars. The latest AGM-88 has GPS and millimeter wave terminal guidance as well as passive radar guidance.

That is the trick is it? Sure, AGM-88 has millimeter wavelength sensors. The problem is that it does nothing vs VHF radar, as it operates not in millimeter or centimeter diapason, and not even in decimeter diapason. VHF means meters. You literally need meters long antennae to match radar's VHF frequency to jam or accurately target it. We are literally talking about several hundred to thousands times defferent wavelengths than AGM-88 is able to detect due to physical limitations of the antennae that can be installed in it.
And I am also very interested in knowing how to actually jam a VHF radar using anything but another VHF radar in close quarters. Even better if you can do it to HF, as lower diapason of SKY installations partially goes even to decameter frequencies.
To make it clearer, imagine a fishing net. That would be your VHF radar. Using a portable jammer that can be installed on a plane is similar to trying to rip the fishing net by pouring water from a bucket. It won't work.
PS: And how about quantum radars? Lockheed Martin, the same company that dumps these F-35 on the market also works on new generation of quantum scattering radars, that are not affected by any even theoretically known stealth technology. Same line of research is done by russians and chinese. The latter even made a press statement that the first quantum radar was tested in August 2016. Do not get me wrong, but if F-35 is supposed to serve until 2050s, and we already have prototype radars that are completely oblivious of any stealth tech, would it not be better to slow down and see what this is all about, before spending 1.5 trillion dollars worldwide (that is the most recent figure for F-35 global program) on a plane that can become obsolete in a couple of years, along with any other stealth aircraft. I mean they ARE inferior in flight characteristics to all russian, european and chinese 4th generation planes. And without stealth advantage (however hypothetical that may be), thay are just half the performance at ten times the price.

[Kellhound]

Its not my answer, its any nuclear power answer. You need to be completely retarded to send your airforce against invading carrier groups.
And you are stupid, not the world leaders. Putin had said he was ready to use nukes to defend crimea and he also lowered recently the threshold of using nukes.

You are in your own imaginary world imagining shit as always. USA "stronk", rest of the world poop.

I am asking you this very simple question: If you ever tried to invade Russia, (because such war is only possible by you trying to bully them) would they be wrong on if they sunk your carrier groups with nukes YES OR NO?

Use them on us, we use them on you. It becomes a tit for tat that ends the world. So yes, it is wrong to use nuclear weapons short of the immanent end of the state.

But it is funny to see you admit that Russia cannot handle a carrier without using nukes.

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Good luck trying to jam a thing that transmits in 100's of kw or even over 1mw of power. come and tell me how well it went

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If everyone was certain as you mr Hubcap there would be a USA -Russia war already, but guess what. It is the nuclear deterrence (aka getting nuked in response) that kept peace lasting so long and certainly not yours or kells wishful thinking.

Again, it isn't a matter of overcoming the power of the transmitted signal, but one of overcoming the reflected signal. We are not talking about comm jamming.

There is no war because neither side has anything to gain that warrants the cost of war, and I am not talking nuclear war.

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Latest estimates put the cost at $148 million for the F35A, $351million for the B and $337million for the C. If the estimated total cost of $400billion is correct this would put the average price of each aircraft ordered at over $162million.

That is the cost per plane including R&D, not the fly away cost.

[Reeve]

I am asking you this very simple question: If you ever tried to invade Russia, (because such war is only possible by you trying to bully them) would they be wrong on if they sunk your carrier groups with nukes YES OR NO?

Why in your world is the US invading Russia? It's far more likely that we'd be using these jets to defend other countries from Russia, in which case carrier groups aren't really required. And if Russia starts throwing nukes around, they won't be happy with the response they get.

[Kellhound]

That is the trick is it? Sure, AGM-88 has millimeter wavelength sensors. The problem is that it does nothing vs VHF radar, as it operates not in millimeter or centimeter diapason, and not even in decimeter diapason. VHF means meters. You literally need meters long antennae to match radar's VHF frequency to jam or accurately target it. We are literally talking about several hundred to thousands times defferent wavelengths than AGM-88 is able to detect due to physical limitations of the antennae that can be installed in it.
And I am also very interested in knowing how to actually jam a VHF radar using anything but another VHF radar in close quarters. Even better if you can do it to HF, as lower diapason of SKY installations partially goes even to decameter frequencies.
To make it clearer, imagine a fishing net. That would be your VHF radar. Using a portable jammer that can be installed on a plane is similar to trying to rip the fishing net by pouring water from a bucket. It won't work.
PS: And how about quantum radars? Lockheed Martin, the same company that dumps these F-35 on the market also works on new generation of quantum scattering radars, that are not affected by any even theoretically known stealth technology. Same line of research is done by russians and chinese. The latter even made a press statement that the first quantum radar was tested in August 2016. Do not get me wrong, but if F-35 is supposed to serve until 2050s, and we already have prototype radars that are completely oblivious of any stealth tech, would it not be better to slow down and see what this is all about, before spending 1.5 trillion dollars worldwide (that is the most recent figure for F-35 global program) on a plane that can become obsolete in a couple of years, along with any other stealth aircraft. I mean they ARE inferior in flight characteristics to all russian, european and chinese 4th generation planes. And without stealth advantage (however hypothetical that may be), thay are just half the performance at ten times the price.

The millimeter wave terminal guidance is ACTIVE, not passive.

VHF radars have been around for a long time, and the US has been conducting EW against them for a long time.

As for why they are worth having, even Russia cannot upgrade all there systems in short order, and the number of single digit SA- systems still in use is quite high around the world. And aircraft are still equipped with X band radars.

[caervek]

I forget, Russian SAM operators are smart, and US SEAD operator are stupid......

Sorry couldn't resist



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Latest estimates put the cost at $148 million for the F35A, $351million for the B and $337million for the C. If the estimated total cost of $400billion is correct this would put the average price of each aircraft ordered at over $162million.

I at least hope the kickbacks our politicians got for wasting our taxes on that turkey were decent >.>

[Independent voter]

Sorry couldn't resist



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I at least hope the kickbacks our politicians got for wasting our taxes on that turkey were decent >.>

What's the context?

[Spectral]

That money was borrowed from the FUCKING CHINESE for weapons designed to defend against the Chinese. Any reasonable mind would realize this is total BS. If the Chinese wanted attack the United States they would call in their IOU's

China only owns a small percentage of US Public debt.

There's also the small matter of that not being how debt works.

The "China owns the USA" meme is really fucking stupid even by the standards really fucking stupid ideas.

[Reeve]

What's the context?

I'm curious too. That looks like it's maybe the cockpit hatch of an F-117?

[Kellhound]

Sorry couldn't resist



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I at least hope the kickbacks our politicians got for wasting our taxes on that turkey were decent >.>

Multiple wars, one F-117 lost.

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I'm curious too. That looks like it's maybe the cockpit hatch of an F-117?

Its the F-117 Serbia shot down.

[Ulmita]

Why in your world is the US invading Russia? It's far more likely that we'd be using these jets to defend other countries from Russia, in which case carrier groups aren't really required. And if Russia starts throwing nukes around, they won't be happy with the response they get.

The argument with Kellhound was this: If, for any reason that we can or cant think, USA sent its carrier groups to strike Russia in a full - out war scenario,
if Russia should use the easy and fast way of getting rid them. We all know that they only have that solution on a such a scenario, but according to kell they should just send in massive amounts of conventional assets.

I say that in such scenario (aka defending) they have every right to use w/e they see fit to deal securely and decisively with the danger as would America do if for some reason several carrier groups appeared outside your shores with hostile intentions.

[Reeve]

Its the F-117 Serbia shot down.

Yeah I looked it up. Interestingly, the man who fired the missile and the pilot have met up in years since and struck up a sort of friendship. Which... I'm not sure I'd want to make friends with someone who quite literally tried to kill me once, and nearly succeeded.