1. #10141
    Quote Originally Posted by Vestig3 View Post
    You know that atm there is only a hand full pro flyers keeping this thread alive while its very simple flying comes in 7.2 either play and feel bad or quit and play something else because keep throwing salt at each other in this thread is gonna help jackshit to change that.
    The same things were said in the other WoD thread when WoD wasn't even out 1 month. Legion has not even hit the 30 day mark yet. In fact the usual suspects that are posting now were missing when the no flying forever bomb was dropped and Blizzard did a back flip to reverse that decisions.

    The biggest irony is anti flyers were pushing that Tera and FF did not have flying in that WoD flying thread...fast forward to the current era...and both games have flying mounts now. Oops?

    This is why others in the MMO industry are capitalizing on Blizzard's massive miscalculation. Lets assume that flying is just a "flight simulator"...if that is the case and you can add it to the game for a small cost of development why not do it? If it prolongs and adds longevity and replay value to a MMO why not do it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ible View Post
    Never forget? Reminded every day! And man what good it feels to soar around Draenor. I still do every day, I actually play the game in it's entirety if I can and why would i be at broken isles anyway for other than wq's.

    Maybe that's what/why and all. Getting flying back after having been without is, well.... WoW, WOW game is fun again. Something that otherwise didn't last more than a few days thanks to the continent and it's getting around mechanics which utterly stink worst temporary solution imaginable.

    hmm how do i leave HOV with my warr, not tried yet

    probably better than running through highmountains and get dazed by bears and cats while heading for stormheim. this one guy even suggested that it's best that i stop and kill the trash instead of continuing my route to something that I WANT TO brim my skills on. only solution is pulling 15 trash mobs or trying to solo a hard world boss, it's all gone well up until now. no challenges. the only challenge is enduring the terrain. people don't understand what type of players have the highest endurance. certainly not the one preferring to use a taxi service. would ogout of boredom before the flight was over... they don't. understand. they don't. want to.
    I stopped playing WoW all together, because seeing the difference between a world with flying and making the zones as one continuous zone and ground and pound making zone seem disconnected is a night and day difference.

    I don't see the value of playing WoW at all even if flight is available in older zones. This is why the argument to gate off flying till the expansion is almost over with that many anti flyers were pushing in the WoD flying thread shows how cumbersome that argument is. It means players like me would not even play the game if that is the end goal, so making players make that choice seems like a form of collective punishments because they don't conform to Blizzard's rate maze corporate formula.

    At the same time, I save money, because I am not going to be led by the nose because Blizzard can't decide what do with flying despite insisting that they have a plan.

  2. #10142
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bingbongbrothers View Post
    For those people who dont like the game without flying I present you the next WoW-Killer.

    Plane Simulator 2016
    I love borderline stupid stuff like that. Yes because people that like flight in the game don't like all the other stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bingbongbrothers View Post
    You don't have that anoying "Combat" feature that you do not like
    You can collect different planes!!
    You can fly all around over the world with a gorgous view.
    PvPers are just on ground exoloding themselves so you're save.
    It's not even Challenging ( I look at you Rebecca who does only content if you're overgeared like you said. Pls just quit this game because you think everyone enjoys playing easy mode and for relaxing and blizzard should cater to you)

    Get it now guys I'm having so much fun flying around!
    People wanting flight still have to do and like the ground combat.
    People wanting flight don't want planes they want dragons and griffons and wyvern.
    People wanting flight love the view from above at WoW-centric worlds.
    People wanting flight and like PvP know how to combine both and fleeing enemies don't bother them. Real PvPer know when they have won a battle.
    Some people wanting flight like challenges, but those Speed bumps in the world are hardly any challenge. But real players know where they can find a challenge (flight has nothing to do with it.
    Last part, what moron did tell you the world would be "hard" without flight? It doesn't so flight doesn't even give you an easy mode. The world without flight is almost as hard as tying your shoes.... or do you consider tying your shoes as being hard? Then i would understand why you make those funny statements.

    But if you can suggest to me a flight simulator in the actual World of Warcraft, with fighting NPCs and players alike, with artifact weapons, crafting, instanced dungeons and raids that i can play with my friends (all that WoW has been for 8 years straight and should be now).... please tell me, i want to play. What you suggesting isn't fitting my needs.

  3. #10143
    Quote Originally Posted by ible View Post
    WOD practically killed itself by waiting as long as it did, and then setting up high requirements for all the people that had been offline for the entirety of a no flying garrison expansion, just really giving them another in the gut.
    As someone who quit within the first month of WoD, I have to agree with this. I never had a problem with the exploration or loremaster achievements for flying, I normally do both while leveling anyway, but when I returned I noticed the rep grind. I felt like with the introduction of Legion the Tanaan Diplomat portion of Draenor Pathfinder should've been removed or at the very least modified to not be time gated.

    I fail to see what rep has to do with flying anyway. Once you've seen everything (exploration), done everything (loremaster), and collected everything (treasures), there's no reason to continue withholding it.
    "We must now recognize that the greatest threat of freedom for us all is if we go back to eating ourselves out from within." - John Anderson

  4. #10144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    I fail to see what rep has to do with flying anyway. Once you've seen everything (exploration), done everything (loremaster), and collected everything (treasures), there's no reason to continue withholding it.
    It's another way to delay flight, and to ensure that players do plenty of the world content before they are allowed to fly.

    Blizzard simply doesn't want to allow players to use flight in current content.

  5. #10145
    Quote Originally Posted by Jewsco View Post
    You don't think the no flying played a part in WoD being bad?
    WoD had a ton of flaws regardless of flight. I would say even as flight was added in WoD, it did not make it any less bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
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  6. #10146
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    They probably keep it ground so people can see the beautiful graphics they made up close.

    BUT I'd enjoy some places a lot more if I could fly to see the panoramic view and such.

    I hate that you walk through a mob that dazes and dismount you, and you have to kill it or walk til aggro is off (no more phantasm for priests, no no)

    (Just let me fly, pleaaaseee)

  7. #10147
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    WoD had a ton of flaws regardless of flight. I would say even as flight was added in WoD, it did not make it any less bad.

    True but that was the icing on the cake. And the lack of flying was suppose to cover up for the lack of content or for the fact what content we got wasn't finished. They kept saying until they said no flying that all it was going to take to add it was a flip of the switch to turn it on. After they were forced to change thier stance and add flying they then said they needed time to make the zones flight ready. I thought it was a "flip" of a switch? Flying just proved how bad WoD truely was and how little effort they put into it. And no matter what anyone says it can't be a shocking that the worst expansion just happened to come out when they released hearthstone, heroes of the storm and overwatch. No none of that took away from WoD nope none of it.

  8. #10148
    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    It would "break" Suramar because they want you to waste as much time on trash mobs as possible and avoiding guards and blah blah "immersion immersion immersion" (while ignoring the immersion-breaking "Wtf why can't my dragon fly anymore" thing, of course).

    Of course they could easily have just made that a no fly zone with some explanation like "energy shield you have to eventually weaken after finishing everything here blah blah blah."

    Also, literally the only thing the stupid whistle helps with is moving on to the next world quest if it's in a different area. It saves you the time going back to the flightmaster and that's it. It doesn't help with getting there in the first place. It doesn't help with gathering. It doesn't help with archeology. It doesn't help with time wasted due to fighting the scaled up mobs with their lv 110 aggro range that are totally unrelated to the quest and drop nothing of value. It's about as useful as the Dalaran HS would be if they gave that a 5 min CD instead.

    Have you gone to Suramar yet? If you don't like no flight you really aren't going to enjoy that zone. Two of my friends who still play have been complaining about that zone and I didn't even think they cared about flying. Apparently they do now that they feel required to do quests in a zone which annoys them personally.
    I've done some Suramar stuff, and mostly I give it the same treatment as the rest of the open world. I tend to glide in from highmountain rather than slog through terrain. And if that's too much of a pain, I just find the nearest high-area and glide+winds. It's basically accomplishing a lot of the same things that flight would, and I'm skipping past almost all of the annoying crap to go straight to my objective.....exactly like I would with flying.

    Which is why I don't believe that removing flight actually accomplished anything. Or at least doesn't accomplish the things that anti-flight people claim it does. It certainly hasn't "controlled the way players approach the content" as Blizzard claims, because I'm still doing the same thing I would with flight: Flying in, landing, doing the objective, flying/teleporting out.

    This is where the trolls leap in to try and point out that if I can do that without flight, why do I need flying!? TROLOLOLOL!!!!! Because it's more enjoyable and it's the gameplay I grew accustomed to over the past 8 years. Because it was the tool I had for nearly 8 years. Because it was completely unnecessary to blanket remove flight instead of using no-flying in carefully executed areas to enhance specific encounters. Because every reason to remove flight has been refuted time and again.

    But ultimately? It's because removing flight didn't make the game BETTER. It just made it slightly more annoying to navigate, and put it on cooldown.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2016-09-15 at 07:12 PM.

  9. #10149
    Quote Originally Posted by Bingbongbrothers View Post
    For those people who dont like the game without flying I present you the next WoW-Killer.

    Plane Simulator 2016

    You don't have that anoying "Combat" feature that you do not like
    You can collect different planes!!
    You can fly all around over the world with a gorgous view.
    PvPers are just on ground exoloding themselves so you're save.
    It's not even Challenging ( I look at you Rebecca who does only content if you're overgeared like you said. Pls just quit this game because you think everyone enjoys playing easy mode and for relaxing and blizzard should cater to you)

    Get it now guys I'm having so much fun flying around!
    I want to overgear Suramar because I hate the zone and want to get through it as quickly as possible. That doesn't mean I want to overgear everything. But if I particularly hate something, yes I am going to wait until I can get through it quicker. I literally hate the entire design of the zone and I am going to spend as little time there as possible when I buy Legion later on. If it weren't required for the flying achirvement and if the rep vendor didn't have pets and toys, I would skip the zone entirely instead because I hate it that much.
    Last edited by rebecca191; 2016-09-15 at 07:13 PM.

  10. #10150
    Quote Originally Posted by Jewsco View Post
    True but that was the icing on the cake. And the lack of flying was suppose to cover up for the lack of content or for the fact what content we got wasn't finished. They kept saying until they said no flying that all it was going to take to add it was a flip of the switch to turn it on. After they were forced to change thier stance and add flying they then said they needed time to make the zones flight ready. I thought it was a "flip" of a switch? Flying just proved how bad WoD truely was and how little effort they put into it. And no matter what anyone says it can't be a shocking that the worst expansion just happened to come out when they released hearthstone, heroes of the storm and overwatch. No none of that took away from WoD nope none of it.
    You make some very interesting points, but I don't think many of them are relevant to flying and its impact to WoD. Again, many of WoD's issues, apparant or not, had nothing to do with the lack of flying. The introduction of flying at any earlier point wouldn't have saved it from being a train wreck. Flying wouldn't have kept players in the game despite their other game releases either. We've established here that WoD failed on many fronts, but again none of these actually have anything directly to do with flying.

    That being said, I'm not dismissing players who want flying. There is simply a difference from players who prefer flying (or any specific feature) who stopped playing and flying being the catalyst that crippled WoD. There isn't a clear correlation other than vocalization on the forums, and truth be told it is irrelevant. Consider that there's a huge vocal front for Vanilla servers too, so saying WoD failed because it isn't Vanilla enough would be quite a stretch. WoD was bad and flying is one of the contributing factors - nothing more needs to be said about that and nothing done with flying would have changed anything. It would be just as meaningless if we pointed everything wrong about WoD down to Garrisons. We all know that WoD's failures are on a much grander scope than just one of its aspects.

    As for Blizzard saying it's a flip of a switch, I take it as over-analyzing Blizzardspeak. I don't think it's a legitimate complaint specifically for flying since they've promised THOUSANDS of features that have never ended up in the game. It's Blizzard talk, we all know better.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2016-09-15 at 08:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  11. #10151
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    You make some very interesting points, but I don't think many of them are relevant to flying and its impact to WoD. Again, many of WoD's issues, apparant or not, had nothing to do with the lack of flying. The introduction of flying at any earlier point wouldn't have saved it from being a train wreck. Flying wouldn't have kept players in the game despite their other game releases either. We've established here that WoD failed on many fronts, but again none of these actually have anything directly to do with flying.

    That being said, I'm not dismissing players who want flying. There is simply a difference from players who prefer flying (or any specific feature) who stopped playing and flying being the catalyst that crippled WoD. There isn't a clear correlation other than vocalization on the forums, and truth be told it is irrelevant. Consider that there's a huge vocal front for Vanilla servers too, so saying WoD failed because it isn't Vanilla enough would be quite a stretch. WoD was bad and flying is one of the contributing factors - nothing more needs to be said about that and nothing done with flying would have changed anything. It would be just as meaningless if we pointed everything wrong about WoD down to Garrisons. We all know that WoD's failures are on a much grander scope than just one of its aspects.

    As for Blizzard saying it's a flip of a switch, I take it as over-analyzing Blizzardspeak. I don't think it's a legitimate complaint specifically for flying since they've promised THOUSANDS of features that have never ended up in the game. It's Blizzard talk, we all know better.
    Flying would have mitigated a LOT of the issues with WoD, had it been released earlier. I would have shortened the lifespan of WoD, no doubt, but that should have happened earlier anyway, potentially giving Blizzard the kick in the ass to raise their game earlier than they did. Note that I said MITIGATE, not solve. As long as there's going to be very little to do in WoD, there could have at least been less annoyance involved with doing it.

    As for flying being a flip of a switch, I don't believe that's true. Even in Legion I've encountered several areas where gliding just shuts off for no reason. Usually when gliding out of Dalaran, or across large bodies of water to reach the more remote islands, like the Warden area, or that spot up NE of Stormheim. Holes in the world, or zone transition, or something.

  12. #10152
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Which is why I don't believe that removing flight actually accomplished anything. Or at least doesn't accomplish the things that anti-flight people claim it does. It certainly hasn't "controlled the way players approach the content" as Blizzard claims, because I'm still doing the same thing I would with flight: Flying in, landing, doing the objective, flying/teleporting out.
    That's an anecdote though.

    I see lots of BG's where people end up fighting rather than doing objectives. Is this legitimate claim to remove objectives from BG's?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  13. #10153
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    That's an anecdote though.

    I see lots of BG's where people end up fighting rather than doing objectives. Is this legitimate claim to remove objectives from BG's?
    That is a good idea for a bg, a battle royale, ffa team vs team battleground. No objectives, just most kills wins.


    Also had a chuckle at the people saying 'don't like no flying? don't play it' while arguing against 'don't like flying? don't use it'.
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

  14. #10154
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    Also had a chuckle at the people saying 'don't like no flying? don't play it' while arguing against 'don't like flying? don't use it'.
    Two different things though. 'Don't like flying, don't use it' is choice to handicap yourself, given that flying is an option available to you. 'Don't like no flying, don't play' is acting on the most effective way to deal with Blizzard - cancelling a subscription and giving them direct reason for it.

    It might sound the same to you but if you understand the implications of both meanings, they're two completely separate issues. One is not an answer to the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  15. #10155
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    Two different things though. 'Don't like flying, don't use it' is choice to handicap yourself, given that flying is an option available to you. 'Don't like no flying, don't play' is acting on the most effective way to deal with Blizzard - cancelling a subscription and giving them direct reason for it.

    It might sound the same to you but if you understand the implications of both meanings, they're two completely separate issues. One is not an answer to the other.
    One asks the player to abandon personal enjoyment and something they love, be quiet and go away, the other asks the player to embrace the way they claim they like to play, stick to what they personally enjoy and abandon keeping up with the Jones's/ fear of missing out attitude of those that so vehemently proclaim the evils of flight, while not being strong willed enough to follow through with their convictions without pointing to other players and crying 'advantage'.
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

  16. #10156
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    One asks the player to abandon personal enjoyment and something they love, be quiet and go away, the other asks the player to embrace the way they claim they like to play, stick to what they personally enjoy and abandon keeping up with the Jones's/ fear of missing out attitude of those that so vehemently proclaim the evils of flight, while not being strong willed enough to follow through with their convictions without pointing to other players and crying 'advantage'.
    Nailed.

    It.

    Congratulations sir.

    Have an internet. On me.

  17. #10157
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    That's an anecdote though.

    I see lots of BG's where people end up fighting rather than doing objectives. Is this legitimate claim to remove objectives from BG's?
    According to anti-flight logic it is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    One asks the player to abandon personal enjoyment and something they love, be quiet and go away, the other asks the player to embrace the way they claim they like to play, stick to what they personally enjoy and abandon keeping up with the Jones's/ fear of missing out attitude of those that so vehemently proclaim the evils of flight, while not being strong willed enough to follow through with their convictions without pointing to other players and crying 'advantage'.
    Glad someone actually understands the difference here.

  18. #10158
    Deleted
    Do the pathfinder guise. /thread

  19. #10159
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    One asks the player to abandon personal enjoyment and something they love, be quiet and go away, the other asks the player to embrace the way they claim they like to play, stick to what they personally enjoy and abandon keeping up with the Jones's/ fear of missing out attitude of those that so vehemently proclaim the evils of flight, while not being strong willed enough to follow through with their convictions without pointing to other players and crying 'advantage'.
    There isn't anyone here who is proactive in wanting ground travel being optional the same way someone would wants flight to be optional. It's not a clash of wills. This is literally a fallacious argument with a fictional subset of players.

    These are only examples of fictional scenarios that befit your perspective. Do you truly believe it is only the a 'pro-ground travel' crowd who think flight doesn't need to be in the game? Really? The fact that you see this so black and white makes it difficult to take you seriously.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    According to anti-flight logic it is.
    'Anti flight' is a convenient strawman to wave away any criticisms on having flight return ASAP.

    I'm pro flight. I'm not even playing Legion right now, and waiting on far more content (including but not exclusive to flight). I find it laughable to see the opinions here having to be skewed so far to justify wanting something in the game. It should be much simpler than this and not result in 'X crowd' being unable to understand the plight of no flying.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2016-09-15 at 11:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  20. #10160
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    There isn't anyone here who is proactive in wanting ground travel being optional the same way someone would wants flight to be optional. It's not a clash of wills. This is literally a fallacious argument with a fictional subset of players.

    These are only examples of fictional scenarios that befit your perspective. Do you truly believe it is only the a 'pro-ground travel' crowd who think flight doesn't need to be in the game? Really? The fact that you see this so black and white makes it difficult to take you seriously.
    Have you read this thread, at all? There have been a myriad of discussions and topics and sub topics and sub discussions and ideas and brain storms and arguments and discussions. In no way was that 1 post all encapsulating of this entire argument.

    All I did was notice the amusement I got from people, in this thread, that proclaim their enjoyment and 'immersion' is increased while on the ground, how they like the game better like that, how this is the way they like to play, but will burn all that in an instant to fly, just cuz 'players choose the path of least resistance'. So what? Are you a robot? Just cuz 'players choose...', does that mean you have to choose the same? Why not play the way you like?

    In contrast, those against flying tell people who love the game with flying at max level, who just want to enjoy it as they have done for the majority of its life, to shut up, quit, 'you're playing the game wrong', to go away and not fight for the way they like to play.

    Fine, you don't 'get' why other people like flying. I don't get why people pour hours into arena or raids. I don't fucking criticise those people and belittle their time in game just cuz I don't understand it.

    You would have to be some type of obnoxious jerk to do that.
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

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