Ignore pain needs a SERIOUS nerf.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Warriors have the worst self-healing compared to every other tank class. This is what mitigates the concept of having a high shield for Ignore Pain. While they may be easier to heal, they rely on the healer more than any other class.

[zurm]

Good warrior tanks - To guildies: Lol this IP is hilarious and OP, hey holy pally see who wins on ST damage on this boss.

If you are competing against your DPS on a single target boss, they are either doing something very wrong, or you have the worlds greatest RNG. That, or they are a warlock. AoE on the other hand is a different story.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

As someone mentioned, I imagine Ignore Pain will be valued much more in higher content. I mean maybe it could get a slight nerf but...


Blizzard doesn't always do *SLIGHT NERFS* They tend to be pretty polarized.

[Shinjikage]

If you are competing against your DPS on a single target boss, they are either doing something very wrong, or you have the worlds greatest RNG. That, or they are a warlock. AoE on the other hand is a different story.

I think you missed the part where it says hey holy pally. Unless you've seen my videos on Beta where I holy pally dpsed, but that's another topic.

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Warriors have the worst self-healing compared to every other tank class. This is what mitigates the concept of having a high shield for Ignore Pain. While they may be easier to heal, they rely on the healer more than any other class.

This is like saying disc priests have the worst healing of every healer in HFC, they have to rely on throughput healers to actually do stuff. And then you check the logs and your meters and you boot a healer since you have a disc.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Yup as others have pointed out, since they have no real self heal, this has to double as both. It needs to be that strong otherwise the are shit again like they were in wod. I certainly wouldn't say they are easier to heal than any other tanks though. That's a statement made from inexperience. Blood Dks can literally heal themselves more than the healer can. Paladins have a heal that does more the lower your health is. Two examples of why knowing when to heal and when to DPS instead is important as a healer.

[Shinjikage]

Yup as others have pointed out, since they have no real self heal, this has to double as both. It needs to be that strong otherwise the are shit again like they were in wod. I certainly wouldn't say they are easier to heal than any other tanks though. That's a statement made from inexperience. Blood Dks can literally heal themselves more than the healer can. Paladins have a heal that does more the lower your health is. Two examples of why knowing when to heal and when to DPS instead is important as a healer.

As someone who tanks on multiple toons at 110, I can easily say that prot warriors are easier to heal based on my dtps, hp bar, absorb shield, and the feedback from my healers. To say that healers making the statement out of inexperience is a very broad statement that in a way kind of insults the healers who have posted in this thread and made comments based on their anecdotal experiences.

On that note, a quote from my holy pally last night about healing my prot warrior.
"Should've saved the damage meter at the end of the run, pretty sure you outhealed me dungeon-wide by the end... most of my healing on you was Bestow Faith here and there" You heal so I'm sure you know what bestow faith is.

My shaman healer on my warriors first set of mythics,
"lol that's op where is the damage, you take less damage then our prot pally tank 35 ilvls higher then you"

I suppose I'll just stream my clear of mythics tonight on my warrior.

[Valkaneer]

Good Non warrior tanks - W/E, my guild doesn't care what I play as long as I'm the one playing the toon

Not as good non warrior tanks - Why is everyone talking about ignore pain, what is it, I want it.

Healers - Why is this warrior out healing me and taking no damage

Good warrior tanks - To guildies: Lol this IP is hilarious and OP, hey holy pally see who wins on ST damage on this boss.

Good warrior tanks to the public: Silence is Golden

Not as good warrior tanks: IP is fine we don't have healing, it's an absorb. ... Somewhere in a corner a disc priest is crying because they've been replaced by a prot warrior.

Legit answer: Based on what kind of player you are this varies. It's really easy to tell from this thread that most people aren't grasping the big picture of balance. It's like people are magically forgetting that your rage gen increases when you take bigger hits which will allow for more IP casts. Also if you are taking a melee swing to the face of 1.6-2million to one shot your bubble, I'd have to say you are probably /sitting or not wearing your armor or forgetting that shield block is a thing.

I have tanked quite a few world quest bosses, and some are very deadly, like the Sea king giant on the Isle of the watcher. Watched a Druid tank that guy no problem while everyone else got killed. I have yet to see a warrior do something a Druid, DK, DH, or Pali couldn't tank. Like I said I have yet to see a single BrM monk yet. So I can't speak for them, But I have seen Druids, DK, Pali etc tanking just as many things as I can and their not dying.

Bosses hit like wet noodles right now and the only possible way a Warrior can sustain himself would be due to the Boss not eating through his shield and being able to use Impending Victory. Since a warrior can only absorb 90% his life will always whittle down. Soon as the bosses start to hit for a million per swing we will hear a different toon being sung.

[Deleted]

u clearly dont know what ur talking about if u think its ridiculously op. Specially when there are no hard content available atm. Saying something is op because in easy mode it seems so doesnt mean it really is when raids open. So u cant even say yet is it good or not.

[Shinjikage]

I hear you Val,

In terms of world quests it's a race of who can kill who first. If your damage is low then you wont be able to kill the kill the WQ boss, before he finishes you off, while another tank can heal through it. A huge difference exists between WQ bosses, and raid/M+ scenarios, balancing doesn't really factor into WQ solo bosses that are meant to be done by a group. WQ are trivial content, that do not impact progression unless you want to make the case that you had to find someone to heal or dps with you to kill it for AP.

On the matter of bosses hitting harder, you have to factor in you will be able to get in more IPs due to having more rage. I'm also conveniently ignoring the fact that you will be able to get 1.5 million absorbs on you (which is a good thing for you), but that's because I'm only addressing the frequency in high damage taken scenarios. On a sidenote, I should probably mention I don't care if it gets nerfed or doesn't get nerfed. While it may seem I'm anti prot warrior, I'm really not- I love my prot warrior bretheren, what I don't like is people downplaying the power and potential of a great skill and making really weird excuses to say it's not good. I mean if I hear one more term about prot warriors not having any self healing, and people discounting this fat absorb on them, I might just actually do some real work.

[Ripitgood]

It certainly needs to be nerfed, and will certainly be nerfed eventually. Prot warriors stand out far too much. Just when you though Blizzard had learned their lesson with disc priests..

All classes are balanced for Mythic Content. IP will be substantially less "OP" when it comes to Mythic + / Mythic Raiding.

Blizzard literally just posted this morning or last night they won't be making a balance pass on any class till after the first week for Raiding/Mythic + to see the FULL SPECTRUM of a class and were it stands in the content it was balanced around. Sheesh.

[Awsyme]

Warriors have the worst self-healing compared to every other tank class. This is what mitigates the concept of having a high shield for Ignore Pain. While they may be easier to heal, they rely on the healer more than any other class.

They really don't.

I run dps and healing meters. Warrior tanks are effectively running an old disc priest build while tanking - with a strong self healing strike that restores a good chunk every 30 seconds. It's not rare to see them matching a healer for 3/4 of the raid.

Druids and Monks are low healing tanks. Warriors are barrier tanks with a good heal.

[Flaks]

They really don't.

I run dps and healing meters. Warrior tanks are effectively running an old disc priest build while tanking - with a strong self healing strike that restores a good chunk every 30 seconds. It's not rare to see them matching a healer for 3/4 of the raid.

Druids and Monks are low healing tanks. Warriors are barrier tanks with a good heal.

Yes sir that inspiring presence sure is relevant healing...

[Shinjikage]

Yes sir that inspiring presence sure is relevant healing...

A strike every 30 seconds that heals for a chunk... It's called impending victory, which is on the same row as inspiring presence. Please at least get the basics down before you make comments that are now only funny because you got an ability wrong. I also had to edit this in case someone wanted to make an lol it's called victory rush comment. That's 20 seconds.

[Arker42]

The relative amount of "Healing Done" on a parse is totally irrelevant when comparing Tank/Healer effectiveness. Obviously if you mitigated 60% of all incoming damage instead of healing 60%, your appearance on the healing parse would look much different. More relevant metrics to consider are external healing required, smoothness of damage taken, and whether you have tools to handle big damage spikes.

Wagging dicks over "Who Tops Who" on the healing parse is a waste of time and irrelevant to any meaningful tanking discussion.

[Deleted]

A strike every 30 seconds that heals for a chunk... It's called impending victory, which is on the same row as inspiring presence. Please at least get the basics down before you make comments that are now only funny because you got an ability wrong. I also had to edit this in case someone wanted to make an lol it's called victory rush comment. That's 20 seconds.

15% every 30 seconds? Wow what an insane heal, not like druids heal for many times that every 15.

[Deleted]

As someone who tanks on multiple toons at 110, I can easily say that prot warriors are easier to heal based on my dtps, hp bar, absorb shield, and the feedback from my healers. To say that healers making the statement out of inexperience is a very broad statement that in a way kind of insults the healers who have posted in this thread and made comments based on their anecdotal experiences.

On that note, a quote from my holy pally last night about healing my prot warrior.
"Should've saved the damage meter at the end of the run, pretty sure you outhealed me dungeon-wide by the end... most of my healing on you was Bestow Faith here and there" You heal so I'm sure you know what bestow faith is.

My shaman healer on my warriors first set of mythics,
"lol that's op where is the damage, you take less damage then our prot pally tank 35 ilvls higher then you"

I suppose I'll just stream my clear of mythics tonight on my warrior.

Of course shield absorb is going to "outheal" healers when damage is going to be absorbed before heals are needed, but this game is not supposed to be balanced around mythic0 which is basically new heroic mode. Here is video of prot pala soloing mythic boss less than week after release https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwyCddHT8kc . Sure healers can keep prot pala 100% all the time and "win on healing meters" but that's just way to waste mana.

It really seem like lot of players are getting false impression from current mythic dungeons as if these were some sort of challenging content that matter.

[Shinjikage]

Hi Lei,

No where in my statements do I say balancing or numbers should be based around Mythic 0 levels. What I am saying is with current values and the frequency rate due to rage gain in high damage scenarios, IP is going to be very strong and literally that's all I'm saying. I 100% agree with you that absorbs are very strong on weak damage. I will take it one step further and say absorbs are also just as strong in hard hitting content, at which point you have to analyze how often you can use the ability. Guard was limited by cd which could be greatly reduced (but not at the same rate as IP), PWS was limited by weakened soul, and COW you could just spam all day, which is probably the closest thing we have to IP.

Also, if we link videos. Here's a video of me soloing the last boss of mythic maw the day after legion launch. I'm not going to foolishly talk about stuff and say my view point is only of +0. Beta testing, playing multiple tank toons, and healing as well give me a decent grasp on where the classes are, and where they are heading before balancing is done by Blizzard. I'm not a know it all, but I do have a decent amount of Exp.

https://www.twitch.tv/shinjitank/v/86980233

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15% every 30 seconds? Wow what an insane heal, not like druids heal for many times that every 15.

15% heal on a 30 second cd, is actually really nice when you factor in this big absorb shield on you. The abilities are used in conjunction with one another, and compliment one another. Would you like it to be a 15% heal on a 15 second cd, with an absorb shield limited by rage gain/spent? I think eve you can see how insanely OP that would be.

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@Arker
Actually it does matter when we want to analyze and compare things in a discussion.
Healing damage is a lot like eating a whole pie, we have two contenders, the prot warrior, and the healer. The prot warrior based on his effectiveness is able to eat 0-9 slices out of 10 of the pie. The prot warrior gets to the pie before the healer so the healer is only left with leftovers. If the warrior is really good and eats 9 slices, the healer only gets one, if he’s utterly bad and doesn’t hit IP the healer gets all 10 slices! How did I come upon this pie? From looking at the meters and breaking down damage in the same way you did at the end of your post , it’s folly to assume that just because we post healing done, that we aren’t analyzing every aspect of it under a microscope. Really I just wanted to talk about pie though.

[Valkaneer]

I hear you Val,

In terms of world quests it's a race of who can kill who first. If your damage is low then you wont be able to kill the kill the WQ boss, before he finishes you off, while another tank can heal through it. A huge difference exists between WQ bosses, and raid/M+ scenarios, balancing doesn't really factor into WQ solo bosses that are meant to be done by a group. WQ are trivial content, that do not impact progression unless you want to make the case that you had to find someone to heal or dps with you to kill it for AP.

On the matter of bosses hitting harder, you have to factor in you will be able to get in more IPs due to having more rage. I'm also conveniently ignoring the fact that you will be able to get 1.5 million absorbs on you (which is a good thing for you), but that's because I'm only addressing the frequency in high damage taken scenarios. On a sidenote, I should probably mention I don't care if it gets nerfed or doesn't get nerfed. While it may seem I'm anti prot warrior, I'm really not- I love my prot warrior bretheren, what I don't like is people downplaying the power and potential of a great skill and making really weird excuses to say it's not good. I mean if I hear one more term about prot warriors not having any self healing, and people discounting this fat absorb on them, I might just actually do some real work.

How are we getting more rage? 2% of Hp =1 rage, the higher my gear the higher my stamina means I will have to take more damage to get the same amount of rage, Also Armor and other forms of mitigation also reduce the rage I gain. dps and master are my only real rage gains.

[Shinjikage]

DH and warriors function in the same way that their resource generation is increased based on damage taken, the higher the hit the more rage you get. The damage jumps decently from say heroic/mythic 0 to mythic +7-15 and raids. Also I think you are looking at the old formula which used max hp, not expected HP values.

[Deleted]

No where in my statements do I say balancing or numbers should be based around Mythic 0 levels. What I am saying is with current values and the frequency rate due to rage gain in high damage scenarios, IP is going to be very strong and literally that's all I'm saying. I 100% agree with you that absorbs are very strong on weak damage. I will take it one step further and say absorbs are also just as strong in hard hitting content, at which point you have to analyze how often you can use the ability. Guard was limited by cd which could be greatly reduced (but not at the same rate as IP), PWS was limited by weakened soul, and COW you could just spam all day, which is probably the closest thing we have to IP.

Then why are you talking about mythic 0 dungeons and quoting someone from these runs and using that in your argument?