[7.0] Legion Discipline Priest Guide and Discussion

[Deleted]

Yes, haste is the highest priority in our stats. The reason being that, not only does it increase hps through spellcasts like every other healer, it also increases our efficiency by allowing us to cast more spells within the window that we have atonements out on the raid before having to re-apply atonements.

Thank you Izzirez. I got another little & maybe stupid question.

I got some 825 Pants, with decent bonus to Haste & Crit.

I also got some 840 Pants, from where i will lose 500-600 haste in exchange for Crit \ Mastery & 150-200 intellect

Is better to keep the 825 at this point or Intellect increase wins?

Thank you

[Ctz]

Actual stat weight for disc seems to be:
Intellect [9.04] > Haste [7.54] > Crit [6.04] > Mastery [4.54] > Versatility [3.04]

Do the maths with the stats of your two pants, and you'll know which is the real uprade.

[Disciplined]

Actual stat weight for disc seems to be:
Intellect [9.04] > Haste [7.54] > Crit [6.04] > Mastery [4.54] > Versatility [3.04]

Do the maths with the stats of your two pants, and you'll know which is the real uprade.

Those weights are incredibly far off. Weights also depend heavily on your stats. All our stats interact in a multiplicative way with each other and adding a point in a stat increases the weights of every other stat, while not effecting the weight for that stat itself.

It's pretty much impossible for crit to be twice as good as versatility. 1% versatility does pretty much the same as 1% crit which requires 400 and 350 rating respectively, the gap is not that big. And the gap only becomes smaller the more crit you have.

Here is a very basic calculator for weights where you can input your stats, although it isn't a proper sim and doesn't consider a lot of factors (especially with haste) it should give you a rough idea. https://jsfiddle.net/qu3Lv6o1/

[Supliftz]

....again, I never claimed to hit 5 people with Sanctify. The numbers I listed are for 1 target. Sanctify heals 203k + 81k Echo of Light on each target.

lol why even try to make an argument about light's wrath vs sanctify if you aren't using a 5 target sanctify vs light's wrath? The origin of this argument was about group healing potential with light's wrath. If you're not using a 5 target sanctify, what's the point of arguing then? sanctify has to hit ~4 people (using your numbers) for it to do more total hps than a light's wrath would.

Hitting 4-5 people isn't all that consistent, especially considering it's low range. I mean we've acknowledged in a previous thread that barrier is bad because you can't consistently hit people with, so sanctify should follow a similar logic.

Because I'm not looking at "other CDs", I'm looking at Light's Wrath.

Which is a stupid thing to look at. If I was to look at flash heal vs shadow mend on 1 target, I could come to the conclusion that holy priests are god awful single target healers, and disc priests are gods.

Healing spells don't exist in vacuum's, which is why only looking at 1 spell vs another is stupid.

The only secondary stat that directly affects Light's Wrath healing amount is Mastery, and I said "48% atonement".

I guess if we want to ignore crit/vers for your example. I know you didn't look at crit/vers for sanctify, but that's also really dumb.

Anyway, comparing Light's Wrath, a spell that's healing does not scale off haste for a haste stacking class, vs Sanctify which scales off mastery, something directly scales off the 1 secondary stat you're using, and drawing a conclusion off that is pointless. Not only are you just willfully ignoring the reality of the game for both classes, but you're also ignoring what both classes actually do.

This would be like comparing renewing mist to rejuv, and saying "wow I can't believe resto druids which is a hot based healer has a hot that's significantly weaker than a class which is not heavily about hots".

You can reply to my arguments without filling your post with insults.

You'll have to forgive me, I have very little patience for people doomsaying about a class for multiple threads when the class is extremely powerful atm. I had to put up for years of people being retarded about mistweaver monk when the class was in a competitive state for most of it's time.

It's annoying to me when I see the same posts about disc priest as I did with mistweaver, when I know for a fact it's not a shit spot, and people have no idea how to play.

[Ctz]

Those weights are incredibly far off. Weights also depend heavily on your stats. All our stats interact in a multiplicative way with each other and adding a point in a stat increases the weights of every other stat, while not effecting the weight for that stat itself.

It's pretty much impossible for crit to be twice as good as versatility. 1% versatility does pretty much the same as 1% crit which requires 400 and 350 rating respectively, the gap is not that big. And the gap only becomes smaller the more crit you have.

Here is a very basic calculator for weights where you can input your stats, although it isn't a proper sim and doesn't consider a lot of factors (especially with haste) it should give you a rough idea. https://jsfiddle.net/qu3Lv6o1/

Your calculator tells me Haste Crit and Vers are almost equal for me, making things even more complicated . Simcraft scalings seems broken, don't know why but it doesn't calculate my mastery :s

[Arazen]

You'll have to forgive me, I have very little patience for people doomsaying about a class for multiple threads when the class is extremely powerful atm. I had to put up for years of people being retarded about mistweaver monk when the class was in a competitive state for most of it's time.

It's annoying to me when I see the same posts about disc priest as I did with mistweaver, when I know for a fact it's not a shit spot, and people have no idea how to play.

^this


Discs are not different from other healers. Especially the whole "they heal through damage, so their heals suck" argument is bogus. If a Disc Priest spends 2 GCDs, she tends to heal and damage at the same time. Other healing specs simply alternate healing and dps. The end result is the same. If you want maximum throughput, you don't deal damage as Disc (because you're spamming Shadow Mend), just like every other healer.

Disc is fun and one of the stronger healers for 5-man content. I'd even argue they are the best healer in the game if you know what you are doing, because you can single-handedly carry unwinnable fights with proper cooldown usage. I've healed through 2 back-to-back Ragnaroks in HoV, because the guy who took the shield had no idea what he was doing.

A lot of damage can be avoided if you just dps down an add really fast and Disc can do that from range very easily with their great burst. Holy Paladins, MW and Druids have to go melee to deal their max damage, disc can stay at range. You can fill every single global as Disc with damage and healing, no need for gap closers or wasted time moving to a mob to get ready to DPS.

Oh, and if people stand in shit and take high continuous damage, Shadow Mend is the best heal in the game. Disc's spot healing is absolutely insane and since tanks don't take damage, that's all you really need.

Did I mention how fun the artifact proc heal is? Heal all 5 members to full for zero mana with a single cast. It's rare, but when it procs (and it does so in mythic dungeons!) it's just insanely stupidly strong.

Disc will always beat the noob RNG spec that is Holy, at least I hope it stays that way. Discs are good healers and they are NOT a hybrid.

[Noradin]

Except that the ability is not shit. Does it top off the group instantly? No. But it does do a large amount of healing, more than a Holy Word: Sanctity. Yes, the cooldown is long but disc provides lots of efficient healing. If you need burst, you are usually relegated to using Shadow Mend.

But to make use of it you have to stop using Wrath of Light as soon as you get the buff until such a time that you want to make use of said buff.

- - - Updated - - -

....again, I never claimed to hit 5 people with Sanctify. The numbers I listed are for 1 target. Sanctify heals 203k + 81k Echo of Light on each target.

If you hit less then you have to adjust your "per person" numbers to make up for the difference.

[Deleted]

I read Total saying that the trinket Promises has been buffed.
I don't find this information in the hotfixes.
Can you help me?

Thank you,
Proog

[anon5123]

Which is a stupid thing to look at. If I was to look at flash heal vs shadow mend on 1 target, I could come to the conclusion that holy priests are god awful single target healers, and disc priests are gods.

And again you're putting words in my mouth.

I'm not saying Disc is bad, I'm saying Light's Wrath is bad. For a 90s CD. For something that is supposed to be our big special artifact ability, it doesn't heal very much at all. (in 5mans)

Even comparing it to Disc's other big ST spell, Penance, it's pretty weak. Penance hits for ~285k, and Light's Wrath hits for ~375k with 5 Atonements. Light's Wrath doesn't heal that much more than Penance, despite having 1000% longer cooldown.

It's balanced around raid situations of having 10+ Atonements out. Just like Divine Hymn and Tranq.....yet, for some reason, those two got "+100% healing when not in a raid" and Light's Wrath didn't.

You'll have to forgive me, I have very little patience for people doomsaying about a class.

...Where exactly am I "doomsaying" ?

Where am I saying "Disc is shit and useless because Light's Wrath is bad" ?

I never said that. In fact, if you actually saw any of my posts around here, you'd see me claiming that Disc is fine and viable.

Saying 1 ability is not as strong as it should be =/= saying the entire class is bad.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

[Totaltotemic]

I read Total saying that the trinket Promises has been buffed.
I don't find this information in the hotfixes.
Can you help me?

Thank you,
Proog

They have been changing items up and down and fixing bugs for weeks now without listing them in the hotfix notes. On any given day, at least 2-3x as many things are changed as what is listed. So far the major changes since about the last week of beta for trinkets have been:

Bottled Hurricane on-use healing increased by 100%
Darkmoon Deck: Promises mana reduction increased by 100%
Concave Reflecting Lens proc healing decreased by 30%
Devilsaur Shock-Baton damage decreased by 66% for Disc (to put it in line with every other trinket that got disc-nerfed)

And the only way to tell these things even happened was to look at the in-game tooltip one day, and then look at it again for the same item level another day and notice that it is different. Thankfully in spreadsheets the numbers are saved forever, so it's pretty easy to compare and see the exact increase or decrease. I do wish they would actually tell us about these things though.

[Deleted]

They have been changing items up and down and fixing bugs for weeks now without listing them in the hotfix notes. On any given day, at least 2-3x as many things are changed as what is listed. So far the major changes since about the last week of beta for trinkets have been:

Bottled Hurricane on-use healing increased by 100%
Darkmoon Deck: Promises mana reduction increased by 100%
Concave Reflecting Lens proc healing decreased by 30%

And the only way to tell these things even happened was to look at the in-game tooltip one day, and then look at it again for the same item level another day and notice that it is different. Thankfully in spreadsheets the numbers are saved forever, so it's pretty easy to compare and see the exact increase or decrease. I do wish they would actually tell us about these things though.

Thanks for the answer.
I don't really know if i'm going to buy those cards...

[Awsumpossum]

I'm still looking for information on which neck enchant to use, I think my question was buried in the bickering. Thanks.

[Izzirez]

I'm still looking for information on which neck enchant to use, I think my question was buried in the bickering. Thanks.

Mark of the Claw is the enchant you will want for disc.

[Awsumpossum]

Mark of the Claw is the enchant you will want for disc.

Is this still accurate, wasn't sure whether something like Satyr or Priestess would be superior.

[Izzirez]

Is this still accurate, wasn't sure whether something like Satyr or Priestess would be superior.

It is, the damage from Satyr is very small and you will get more out of the stats granted from Claw. Priestess is nearly useless and heals for very little.

[Rife]

Just because haste doesn't effect light's wrath healing, doesn't mean it does not benefit disc hps at all within a burst window. Not only are you casting more total spells within a burst window, but your shadow word pain and mindbender do far more healing.

In a 15 second window you're casting 1 extra spell by stacking haste. That 1 extra spell is Smite unless you're sitting at over 12k haste and can then manage to cast 1 extra PWR and "far" more healing from MB and SWP is 1 extra tick and some fraction of a partial tick in that 15 second window.

If this example of healing during a burst window is the most important role Discs have in a raid then the best setup is to stack mastery, take PI, get 18 atonements out without the need to stack haste and heal the bajesus out of everyone with 60%+ atonement conversion.

I see everyone in this thread say haste is the best stat and I don't know why.

[davesignal]

Haste increases Dark Side procs, reduces PW:S cooldown, increases SW:P/Purge efficiency, increases Mindbender damage and mana return.. I mean, I'm not convinced that haste is the be-all end-all stat-- mostly because it also ramps up your mana consumption, faster than it ramps up the Mindbender mana return-- but for pure throughput it's easily the best.

I really wish it reduced the CD of Penance, though.

[Totaltotemic]

In a 15 second window you're casting 1 extra spell by stacking haste. That 1 extra spell is Smite unless you're sitting at over 12k haste and can then manage to cast 1 extra PWR and "far" more healing from MB and SWP is 1 extra tick and some fraction of a partial tick in that 15 second window.

If this example of healing during a burst window is the most important role Discs have in a raid then the best setup is to stack mastery, take PI, get 18 atonements out without the need to stack haste and heal the bajesus out of everyone with 60%+ atonement conversion.

I see everyone in this thread say haste is the best stat and I don't know why.

Once again we have a post of someone using numbers that are pulled out of thin air in an attempt to appear correct, despite all of the evidence being entirely made up.

What is your difference between "stacking" and "not stacking" haste that somehow only results in one extra spell being cast across 15 seconds? This must only be 10% haste and cannot possibly be any more. You also say this is "1 extra tick" from SWP, which also means only 10% haste.

So on the one hand you are comparing 10% haste to:

stack mastery, take PI, get 18 atonements out without the need to stack haste and heal the bajesus out of everyone with 60%+ atonement conversion.

Now, tell us how you manage to turn 10% haste into 50% mastery. You've set up a false equivalency here because if someone says that your second method is not more healing, you will then tackle them with the long form math showing that 10% haste is, in fact, less healing than 50% mastery. This is disingenuous because the comparison is totally invalid to begin with because you can only get 12.9% mastery out of the same stats as 10% haste. You do not approach a "60%+ atonement conversion" rate unless you are sacrificing 29.6% Haste, not 10% haste.

Complain all you want about how I dastardly "managed to convince" everyone that haste is good, but you're not even putting up anything resembling a coherent analysis of stats, only repeated non-sequiturs that are essentially the same as saying that 2 + 2 = 5.

[PeopleReady]

Once again we have a post of someone using numbers that are pulled out of thin air in an attempt to appear correct, despite all of the evidence being entirely made up.

What is your difference between "stacking" and "not stacking" haste that somehow only results in one extra spell being cast across 15 seconds? This must only be 10% haste and cannot possibly be any more. You also say this is "1 extra tick" from SWP, which also means only 10% haste.

So on the one hand you are comparing 10% haste to:



Now, tell us how you manage to turn 10% haste into 50% mastery. You've set up a false equivalency here because if someone says that your second method is not more healing, you will then tackle them with the long form math showing that 10% haste is, in fact, less healing than 50% mastery. This is disingenuous because the comparison is totally invalid to begin with because you can only get 12.9% mastery out of the same stats as 10% haste. You do not approach a "60%+ atonement conversion" rate unless you are sacrificing 29.6% Haste, not 10% haste.

Complain all you want about how I dastardly "managed to convince" everyone that haste is good, but you're not even putting up anything resembling a coherent analysis of stats, only repeated non-sequiturs that are essentially the same as saying that 2 + 2 = 5.

Shiiiiieeeeeeeeeeet. Ice cold.

[Rife]

Once again we have a post of someone using numbers that are pulled out of thin air in an attempt to appear correct, despite all of the evidence being entirely made up.

I'm calculating based on 845 ilvl, 30k sp and 18k total secondary stats.

What is your difference between "stacking" and "not stacking" haste that somehow only results in one extra spell being cast across 15 seconds? This must only be 10% haste and cannot possibly be any more. You also say this is "1 extra tick" from SWP, which also means only 10% haste.

"Stacking" means 10k in that stat and 4k each in the other 2. Such a distribution is close to ideal at 845 and would mean both rings and trinkets would be predominantly haste weighted, haste enchants and haste gems.

The difference between stacking haste and not stacking haste in that example is 6k haste. 6k haste is 18.46% which means 1 extra tick and 1 partial tick which is exactly what I said. SW:P and PtW are 18 and 20 second durations respectively so the gain from haste over a 15 second window is slightly less than what the dot gains over it's full duration.

So on the one hand you are comparing 10% haste to:

"stack mastery, take PI, get 18 atonements out without the need to stack haste and heal the bajesus out of everyone with 60%+ atonement conversion."

Now, tell us how you manage to turn 10% haste into 50% mastery. You've set up a false equivalency here because if someone says that your second method is not more healing, you will then tackle them with the long form math showing that 10% haste is, in fact, less healing than 50% mastery. This is disingenuous because the comparison is totally invalid to begin with because you can only get 12.9% mastery out of the same stats as 10% haste. You do not approach a "60%+ atonement conversion" rate unless you are sacrificing 29.6% Haste, not 10% haste.

It's not 10% haste. I was comparing 12k haste to 12k mastery but I wasn't clear about it for that example.

Stacking to 12k haste would be 2 extra ticks and a partial 3rd more than sitting at 4k haste. Stacking 12k mastery would be 26.5% more atonement healing. For arguments sake lets say that SWP ticks for 100 damage. Stacking haste in this example would make SWP deal ~1270 damage and 656 atonement healing at 4k mastery over 18 seconds. Stacking mastery would make SWP deal ~1020 damage and 666 atonement over 18 seconds.

Considering that both haste stacking builds and haste avoidance builds are going to be pressing penance every 9 seconds and using LW every 1.5 minutes I don't see why everyone is so convinced that haste is the best when haste builds are going to be spending more mana to do basically the same atonement healing.

Everyone keeps pointing out that the benefit to stacking haste is being able to squeeze in more casts into an atonement window and I'm pointing out that you can do that with 2 different talents without stacking haste. If hitting 18 atonements for LW/MB is the main reason people advocate haste then it's disingenuous to imply that it's possible only by stacking haste.