What are your thoughts on Soul Barrier?

[ro9ue]

Or they're doing dungeons more efficiently than you.

How so ?

[Jazzhands]

How so ?

I basically explain it in my other response to you. Currently in base level mythics you don't need the mitigation from soul barrier, and can go full DPS mode with a decent healer, and use Last Resort as a second meta for more DPS. Later it might change, but the higher up the content the more useless Soul barrier becomes because it gets eaten so quickly.

[ro9ue]

I basically explain it in my other response to you. Currently in base level mythics you don't need the mitigation from soul barrier, and can go full DPS mode with a decent healer, and use Last Resort as a second meta for more DPS. Later it might change, but the higher up the content the more useless Soul barrier becomes because it gets eaten so quickly.

I'm only speaking in terms of base mythics right now because we don't have access to anything higher. When we get access to raids/mythic+, I can see Last Resorts value. Right now with Soul Barrier I'm invincible.

When death becomes more inevitable, Last Resort becomes more valuable an we can discuss it then.

[Lolsteak]

Soul Barrier is far better for normal Mythic dungeons especially with many people being 845+ already, If your healer is even half competent you're not going to die so reducing the incoming damage even further helps.

Last Resort could come in really handy in Mythic+ though.

[Jazzhands]

I'm only speaking in terms of base mythics right now because we don't have access to anything higher. When we get access to raids/mythic+, I can see Last Resorts value. Right now with Soul Barrier I'm invincible.

When death becomes more inevitable, Last Resort becomes more valuable an we can discuss it then.

You're missing the point entirely. You don't need to be invincible, because your healer can handle it, and let you do more damage. Using Soul barrier, you use up pain that could be used for damage, and are giving up a talent that can be used for damage, in exchange for a shield that is not needed unless your healer sucks, and in that case Last Resort is probably better anyways. The damage intake in base level mythics is laughable, and you're better off playing DPS mode to make things go faster.

- - - Updated - - -

Soul Barrier is far better for normal Mythic dungeons especially with many people being 845+ already, If your healer is even half competent you're not going to die so reducing the incoming damage even further helps.

Last Resort could come in really handy in Mythic+ though.

Base level mythic damage is laughable, Soul barrier is purely a defensive CD thats not needed with a decent healer, Last Resort gives tons of flexibility and is useable for more DPS and therefore a faster run. Unless your healer is having issues, Soul barrier is useless, and if your healer is having issues, you probably want Last Resort because it's a better survivability talent.

[ro9ue]

You're missing the point entirely. You don't need to be invincible, because your healer can handle it, and let you do more damage. Using Soul barrier, you use up pain that could be used for damage, and are giving up a talent that can be used for damage, in exchange for a shield that is not needed unless your healer sucks, and in that case Last Resort is probably better anyways. The damage intake in base level mythics is laughable, and you're better off playing DPS mode to make things go faster.

Why, it's not timed? I'd rather just be invincible... pull multiple packs at once as well and let my DPS go to town with AOE.

[Hawthorne Wipes]

The way I see it.
Soul Barrier is a nice addition to our set, and including an absorbtion shield always do good. But right now, with a good gear in Mythic duns, that shield is not [B]needed[B]
On the other hand, if you have a face a shitty situation where someone's fucked with the stunts or interrupts, or find some abilities on CD.. and you're getting a shit ton of damage, Last Resort will save you, while Soul Barrier would be usless.

[vulena]

Why do you think Blood DKs take purg on anything besides 5 mans? Because cheat is more valuable. Sure they don't exactly have the choice between Last Resort and Soul Barrier, but cheat is a cheat that allows you to push more dps.

No, it isn't, unless it's ACTUALLY USED.

Otherwise, it's literally useless. Because it's not used. If it procs, totally. Otherwise, the healer was fine without it. You know how I know this? BECAUSE IT WASN'T USED.

Cheats are only cheats when you actually cheat something, yo. This isn't even theorycraft, just actually the meanings of words.

[Melsiren]

There is no real reason to ever use Soul Barrier.


If you want to look more into it I suggest you check out the old VDH discussion where we go into pretty extensive detail why it's outclassed by Last Resort.

I'd rather just be invincible... pull multiple packs at once as well and let my DPS go to town with AOE.

You can get the same results with a heavy Mastery/crit build and talenting into Burning Alive and Flame crash. With 70%+ DR on DS you're borderline invincible, and the talent choice lets you do monster damage on AOE.

[Jellospally]

No, it isn't, unless it's ACTUALLY USED.

Otherwise, it's literally useless. Because it's not used. If it procs, totally. Otherwise, the healer was fine without it. You know how I know this? BECAUSE IT WASN'T USED.

Cheats are only cheats when you actually cheat something, yo. This isn't even theorycraft, just actually the meanings of words.

Guess you've never done things where shit can go wrong and you having a cheat can be the difference of a wipe because someone else already used your Bres and now you are dead. Shit can happen and cheats are for that. Having something that doesn't proc is better than a spell that is unneeded to live and makes you lose dps.

[Jazzhands]

Why, it's not timed? I'd rather just be invincible... pull multiple packs at once as well and let my DPS go to town with AOE.

It's timed in mythic+, might as well get into good habits now. But even for base level mythics, people like to run them as quickly as possible. When you know just how much damage you can take, including DPS ignoring mechanics to deal more damage with a good healer, runs can go much much faster. Soul Barrier isn't needed to pull multiple packs either, as it's mitigation is laughable.

Also, things can go wrong sometimes, even with solid groups. People mess up, and Last Resort can save a wipe and save time.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it isn't, unless it's ACTUALLY USED.

Otherwise, it's literally useless. Because it's not used. If it procs, totally. Otherwise, the healer was fine without it. You know how I know this? BECAUSE IT WASN'T USED.

Cheats are only cheats when you actually cheat something, yo. This isn't even theorycraft, just actually the meanings of words.

You can force Last Resort to proc for more DPS in content where damage isn't an issue, like base level Mythics. What good is Soul barrier in content where damage isn't an issue?

[ro9ue]

It's timed in mythic+, might as well get into good habits now. But even for base level mythics, people like to run them as quickly as possible. When you know just how much damage you can take, including DPS ignoring mechanics to deal more damage with a good healer, runs can go much much faster. Soul Barrier isn't needed to pull multiple packs either, as it's mitigation is laughable.

You can force Last Resort to proc for more DPS in content where damage isn't an issue, like base level Mythics. What good is Soul barrier in content where damage isn't an issue?

Allowing yourself to die for a slight personal DPS gain doesn't out weigh being able to pull more at once and let your dps do more overall group damage.

On Mythic+ scenarios where there's more in play and death might happen naturally - I definitely see myself taking Last Resort. I just don't die now. Even if my whole group does, I can finish any boss encounter.

[Munkky]

Allowing yourself to die for a slight personal DPS gain doesn't out weigh being able to pull more at once and let your dps do more overall group damage.

On Mythic+ scenarios where there's more in play and death might happen naturally - I definitely see myself taking Last Resort. I just don't die now. Even if my whole group does, I can finish any boss encounter.

You can pull more with Last Resort than Soul Barrier. Soul Barrier will just get eaten alive. Last Resort gives you another chance to be completely self sustainable for 15 seconds.

[ro9ue]

You can pull more with Last Resort than Soul Barrier. Soul Barrier will just get eaten alive. Last Resort gives you another chance to be completely self sustainable for 15 seconds.

So what you're suggesting is you can pull more by dying to Last Resort once every 3min vs a 1m absorb shield every 20 seconds, and by the way never be near dying?

[Munkky]

So what you're suggesting is you can pull more by dying to Last Resort once every 3min vs a 1m absorb shield every 20 seconds, and by the way never be near dying?

You aren't "dying" if you have Last Resort. You don't actually die with it. You drop then come back up. That is not the same as actually dying and getting a brez.

[Jazzhands]

Allowing yourself to die for a slight personal DPS gain doesn't out weigh being able to pull more at once and let your dps do more overall group damage.
On Mythic+ scenarios where there's more in play and death might happen naturally - I definitely see myself taking Last Resort. I just don't die now. Even if my whole group does, I can finish any boss encounter.

This is all true without Soul barrier, so why even take it? And Last Resort is more than a slight personal DPS gain, its a gain for the whole group. Your healer can heal you less and your group more, your group can ignore more mechanics and do more DPS. On top of that, Soul Barrier uses Pain and GCDs that can be used to generate or spend pain, for mitigation that you don't need.

- - - Updated - - -

So what you're suggesting is you can pull more by dying to Last Resort once every 3min vs a 1m absorb shield every 20 seconds, and by the way never be near dying?

Yes, because I can pull the same amount without Soul barrier that you could with it, it makes that little difference. But with Last Resort, I can pull more, and be invincible long enough to cleave everything down.

[ro9ue]

This is all true without Soul barrier, so why even take it? And Last Resort is more than a slight personal DPS gain, its a gain for the whole group. Your healer can heal you less and your group more, your group can ignore more mechanics and do more DPS. On top of that, Soul Barrier uses Pain and GCDs that can be used to generate or spend pain, for mitigation that you don't need.

- - - Updated - - -


Yes, because I can pull the same amount without Soul barrier that you could with it, it makes that little difference. But with Last Resort, I can pull more, and be invincible long enough to cleave everything down.

So this discussion has come down to "I can pull more than you". Lol. I dunno I guess I'm done here.

[Melsiren]

So this discussion has come down to "I can pull more than you". Lol. I dunno I guess I'm done here.

This discussion was about our thoughts on Soul Barrier, and our thoughts on it are simple.

It's out classed by Last Resort.



Now that means you can use Soul Barrier all you want, just know it's sub par.

[Jazzhands]

So this discussion has come down to "I can pull more than you". Lol. I dunno I guess I'm done here.

You're the one who first mentioned being able to pull tons of trash as a benefit of Soul Barrier, i'm simply saying Last Resort allows more.

Soul Barrier is defensive only, and in any situation where damage intake is an issue, Last Resort is better. Last Resort is also usable for more DPS all around.

Why would you ever use Soul barrier?

[ro9ue]

This discussion was about our thoughts on Soul Barrier, and our thoughts on it are simple.

It's out classed by Last Resort.



Now that means you can use Soul Barrier all you want, just know it's sub par.

You're the one who first mentioned being able to pull tons of trash as a benefit of Soul Barrier, i'm simply saying Last Resort allows more.

Soul Barrier is defensive only, and in any situation where damage intake is an issue, Last Resort is better. Last Resort is also usable for more DPS all around.

Why would you ever use Soul barrier?

These are just subjective opinions.