1. #1

    Brewmaster. How to get a good start at pull?

    It just simply won't do to just read icy veins on this toon. I feel I do it wrong. Talent suggestion on IcyVeins is not in sync with what people on forums are reporting to be good in dungeons (gift of mist and High Tolerance).

    How do you guys pull and approach a pack of mobs and wreck it while the healers HoT on you is enough? How do you pull, and start owning?

    PS: I already tanked HoV hc with 804 ilvl with like 9 traits, but my healer was 830+ (friend of mine, resto shaman even).

  2. #2
    Pull with Keg Smash. That should be more than enough. Follow up with Breath of Fire and then Rushing Jade Wind if you have it talented. If you have special Delivery instead, makes sure you pop a couple of brews right when the mob reaches you. Honestly, Brewmaster should have zero issues with aggro.

    If for some reason, you still cannot hold aggro, make sure you run with the statute and then taunt it, to grab AoE aggro.

  3. #3
    Run over to boss/big trash, pop Ironskin Brew on the way, use Keg Smash, Breath of Fire, Exploding Keg -> after debuff runs out, use Leg Sweep.
    Use all your brew charges on Ironskin Brew, pop Black Ox Brew, pop another Ironskin Brew and use the remaining stacks for purifying.

    You get like 30 seconds of ironskin brew so you won't have to worry for abit if you have trouble on trash. Black Ox Brew also benefits from abilities that reduce the CD of brews, so you can basically use it on almost all pulls.
    There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want

  4. #4
    "How do you guys pull and approach a pack of mobs and wreck it while the healers HoT on you is enough?"

    This is what I am in dire need of to know. I want to feel like an OP tank, which I heard BrM is, if played correctly.

    But using ISB like 4 times in a row over a span of 24ish seconds, won't I reach high stagger immidiatly? I'll try it out ofcourse. So say I pull 2 packs, and do your approach, will I have enough brew charges for the next pull?

  5. #5
    Remember that Keg Smash isn't a melee range ability. It is 15 yards, 25 with the artifact trait. Use it while approaching mobs, don't run all the way to them then use it. Other than that, rushing jade wind is your go-to dungeon talent, and you should pre-cast it while you're moving to a new pack of mobs. That should handle all your pulling threat issues.

    As for your comment about hitting high stagger quickly. It's perfectly ok to hit high stagger, don't view it as something you're doing wrong. If you are using high tolerance/fortifying brew/ironskin or all three, you'll be staggering almost all of your physical damage, and your stagger will be filling up quickly. Just be ready to purify it. The only mistake you could make in this scenario is just spamming away ironskin and not leaving any charges to purify.

  6. #6
    Personally I use ironskin brew on the way, blackout strike into keg smash, tiger palm as a filler (though RJW would be better if you specced it), blackout strike and breath of fire. During this I never have a moment without ISB, I got the extra brew reduction from blackout combo on the keg smash and then the cd reduction of breath of fire again with the next combo.

  7. #7
    High Overlord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    172
    There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in this thread between a few different users on how to "feel like a good tank".

    3 Talent rows really matter for tanking and the playstyle you would like to take.
    • First of all, the tier 45 talent row offers you your tanking mitigation style. You can opt into Light Brewing for a moderately good amount of Brew Generation for minimal effort, go with Black Ox Brew for the MOST brews per minute and pretty much permanently have 1minute of ISB uptime once you get haste, or you can go with Gift of the Mists for reduced Brew generation but heavily increased self-healing, especially in clutch situations.

      This is largely a personal choice, with BoB being the go-to for most people in challenging content, and Gift of the Mists for content you overgear. This is because having 75-80% stagger is not nearly as necessary if youre never getting high stagger values anyways, and the selfhealing means youre largely self-reliant. In Heroics and Mythics, I usually prefer Gift of the Mists and tell the healer to not worry too much about me unless i pull multiple packs or its a tankheavy boss. When my guild starts raiding next week I will be swapping over to BoB because the healers can keep me up, and I can focus solely on mitigation that BoB provides with all the Brew Charges.
    • Second, is your lvl 90 row. This tier offers you a choice between random aoe, slightly increased single target from a pet, or ondemand aoe that you can keep up permanently. Rushing Jade Wind is by far the easiest option for clearing dungeons with minimal effort but lags behind in DPS to Special Delivery. Special Delivery also synergizes extremely well with BoB because you can spend more brew charges and therefore get more chances to proc it. Once again, personal choice but I love RJW for dungeons and will be taking Special Delivery for most raid encounters unless I'm on add duty. I will rarely consider Invoke Niuzao worth it.
    • Third is your final tier. This one changes your playstyle drastically. Elusive Dance is excellent for passive mitigation and damage, and will be a lot of peoples go-to for progression content due to this and the more powerful purifys. Blackout Combo is great for flexbility, dynamic playstyle and has tons of potential but lags behind the others unless played perfectly. In addition, it also has the potential for the highest DPS. High Tolerance is the go-to for BrM who don't yet have their haste to a reasonable amount because of the 5-10-15% haste buff you get for your stagger amount. The increased stagger is also nifty. I like High Tolerance for random dungeons personally, but will probably swap to BoC/ED once I finally get my haste to 33%.


    In addition to all of this, you should NEVER purify stagger unless its red, and even then, I prefer to wait until its pretty high up in red, like 75% plus. ISB will make you a smooth tank to heal, but purify is where all your "mitigation" lies since ISB doesnt actually reduce any damage you take. If you purify yellow or green stagger you're getting very minimal mitigation out of it since it only purifies 50% of your current stagger. All-in-All good use of rolls, Transcendence, Leg Sweep or statue, and brews are the signs of a good Brewmaster, and Gift of the Ox orb gaming can make you nigh-unkillable even without using the cheesy stand in a corner mechanic some BrM love to tout as the only way to play.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    1,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Veladril View Post
    There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in this thread between a few different users on how to "feel like a good tank".

    3 Talent rows really matter for tanking and the playstyle you would like to take.
    • First of all, the tier 45 talent row offers you your tanking mitigation style. You can opt into Light Brewing for a moderately good amount of Brew Generation for minimal effort, go with Black Ox Brew for the MOST brews per minute and pretty much permanently have 1minute of ISB uptime once you get haste, or you can go with Gift of the Mists for reduced Brew generation but heavily increased self-healing, especially in clutch situations.

      This is largely a personal choice, with BoB being the go-to for most people in challenging content, and Gift of the Mists for content you overgear. This is because having 75-80% stagger is not nearly as necessary if youre never getting high stagger values anyways, and the selfhealing means youre largely self-reliant. In Heroics and Mythics, I usually prefer Gift of the Mists and tell the healer to not worry too much about me unless i pull multiple packs or its a tankheavy boss. When my guild starts raiding next week I will be swapping over to BoB because the healers can keep me up, and I can focus solely on mitigation that BoB provides with all the Brew Charges.
    • Second, is your lvl 90 row. This tier offers you a choice between random aoe, slightly increased single target from a pet, or ondemand aoe that you can keep up permanently. Rushing Jade Wind is by far the easiest option for clearing dungeons with minimal effort but lags behind in DPS to Special Delivery. Special Delivery also synergizes extremely well with BoB because you can spend more brew charges and therefore get more chances to proc it. Once again, personal choice but I love RJW for dungeons and will be taking Special Delivery for most raid encounters unless I'm on add duty. I will rarely consider Invoke Niuzao worth it.
    • Third is your final tier. This one changes your playstyle drastically. Elusive Dance is excellent for passive mitigation and damage, and will be a lot of peoples go-to for progression content due to this and the more powerful purifys. Blackout Combo is great for flexbility, dynamic playstyle and has tons of potential but lags behind the others unless played perfectly. In addition, it also has the potential for the highest DPS. High Tolerance is the go-to for BrM who don't yet have their haste to a reasonable amount because of the 5-10-15% haste buff you get for your stagger amount. The increased stagger is also nifty. I like High Tolerance for random dungeons personally, but will probably swap to BoC/ED once I finally get my haste to 33%.


    In addition to all of this, you should NEVER purify stagger unless its red, and even then, I prefer to wait until its pretty high up in red, like 75% plus. ISB will make you a smooth tank to heal, but purify is where all your "mitigation" lies since ISB doesnt actually reduce any damage you take. If you purify yellow or green stagger you're getting very minimal mitigation out of it since it only purifies 50% of your current stagger. All-in-All good use of rolls, Transcendence, Leg Sweep or statue, and brews are the signs of a good Brewmaster, and Gift of the Ox orb gaming can make you nigh-unkillable even without using the cheesy stand in a corner mechanic some BrM love to tout as the only way to play.


    This is a realy good answear and to be honest I've only tanked on Vengeance DH and Blood DK, now I'm pumped to test Brewmaster thanks to this reply :3

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Veladril View Post
    you should NEVER purify stagger unless its red
    What utterly terrible advice. Where the hell did you think this up? Purifying yellow or even green stagger is perfectly fine if the situation demands up. Plenty of content won't even push you into red stagger at all.

  10. #10
    High Overlord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Xahz View Post
    What utterly terrible advice. Where the hell did you think this up? Purifying yellow or even green stagger is perfectly fine if the situation demands up. Plenty of content won't even push you into red stagger at all.
    In content that doesn't push you into red stagger at all then sure you can purify yellow or even green stagger values, but in that content, unless you're solo its almost a non-issue because it makes almost no difference to your healer. The reason i said this was because unless you get the legendary belt, are under the effects of Fortifying Brew, or take Elusive Dance, your stagger is 75% (or less) of damage taken, and purify is 50% of that. Which translates to about a 6% damage mitigation on green, and maybe 15% on yellow. It's just not super worth the brew charges from a min-max perspective. If you're having no troubles using Brews while purifying stagger that low then more power to you, but I sure can't without having to sacrifice ISB uptime on a big hit somewhere.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Veladril View Post
    In content that doesn't push you into red stagger at all then sure you can purify yellow or even green stagger values, but in that content, unless you're solo its almost a non-issue because it makes almost no difference to your healer. The reason i said this was because unless you get the legendary belt, are under the effects of Fortifying Brew, or take Elusive Dance, your stagger is 75% (or less) of damage taken, and purify is 50% of that. Which translates to about a 6% damage mitigation on green, and maybe 15% on yellow. It's just not super worth the brew charges from a min-max perspective. If you're having no troubles using Brews while purifying stagger that low then more power to you, but I sure can't without having to sacrifice ISB uptime on a big hit somewhere.
    That's odd, I thought you said you should NEVER purify stagger unless it's red? Might as well just edit your post if you're going to backpedal in such a ridiculous manner - or delete your post since you apparently think that 59% stagger "makes no difference to your healer", and that difficult content that won't spike your stagger meter doesn't exist (hint: magic damage).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Xahz View Post
    That's odd, I thought you said you should NEVER purify stagger unless it's red? Might as well just edit your post if you're going to backpedal in such a ridiculous manner - or delete your post since you apparently think that 59% stagger "makes no difference to your healer", and that difficult content that won't spike your stagger meter doesn't exist (hint: magic damage).
    i think it's fair to assume that their oversimplification of purify is to help new players who may purify too soon (a very, very common mistake) or never use purify at all (also a common mistake) by giving them a bite sized answer. obviously 'never' is not the right word for that scenario, but yikes. what an overreaction to semantics.

  13. #13
    High Overlord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by Xahz View Post
    *snip*
    You're right Xahz, I shouldn't have said it quite that way, it was a little too much of an oversimplification. I'm going to leave my post as it is and they can read the following replies to get the full context.

    That being said, purifying at low stagger can be an incredibly inefficient use of brews. The rule I personally like to follow is to avoid purifying until I hit red stagger, I also tend to overuse ISB and underutilize PB. Generally speaking healers will not have a hard time healing through stagger amounts below 50-60%, and if they do, your pulls are probably too big or you're not utilizing all the tools in your kit. Even at ilvl 845 I regularly use Paralyze on trash pulls just to make life easier for everyone involved. Your results/decisions may vary, thats just how I play.

  14. #14
    You pull with keg smash->RJW(if you has it)->Breath of fire, keg smash usually is enough for aggro tho, if not then tab-hit mobs. Tho I only have that problem when I have 2-3 DPS's in dungeon who have 40+ higher ilvl than me or a fire mage does RoP/Comb combo on a damn mob whos not near me. Also, dont worry too much about having to use cooldown's, Only CD you have to really think before you use is Forty brew, others are 1min or less so just use em. Flaming keg is OP on huge trash pulls, Dont tho, overlap them with Breath of Fire/ISB unless you have long ISB on you. Just a waste but use your head, sometimes its good to use Flaming keg and ISB together to give yourself time to purify and so on. Also, dont be afraid to use Healing elixirs if you talented them. They have 2 charges so try to keep 1 for emergency and 1 rolling. Practise makes perfect so enjoy playing brewmaster

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangxi View Post
    Personally I use ironskin brew on the way, blackout strike into keg smash, tiger palm as a filler (though RJW would be better if you specced it), blackout strike and breath of fire. During this I never have a moment without ISB, I got the extra brew reduction from blackout combo on the keg smash and then the cd reduction of breath of fire again with the next combo.


    This, with BoC you want to not waste the first keg smash as that cd reduction on IsB is great. I literally use rushing jade wind after ISB and roll into combat unless there is some real specific reason to do something else it really is that simple. There is a lot of information out there about BOC over HT or ED and it really comes down to preference. I run with my guild so I just change when needed.

  16. #16
    Thought I'd give a feedback how it went. So I now did 5 mythics today, and it went pretty damn smooth. I use High Tolerance cause I only have like 21% haste now, and use ISB right before pull and keg smash pull, then spam ISB, and use Black Ox Brew, and another ISB, and save a few for purifies if needed. Goes well with special delivery. Rarely I hit red stagger (835ilvl now).
    I also use Fortifying brew when I feel its a big enough pull, cause the CD isn't really that high since its a brew.

    Since I use Special Delivery and Leg sweep, I sometimes have trouble pulling incoming adds that joins us midfight if my keg smash or breath of fire is on CD. I'm really loving the mobility, I feel it's there. And lots of interupts with paralyse, spear and aoe stun. Leg Sweep is too good to give up for the ox, it's one of the best oh shit buttons I have.

    Brewmaster is king is my judgement, and I'm happy it's so fun and engaging.

  17. #17
    High Overlord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    172
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    And lots of interupts with paralyse, spear and aoe stun. Leg Sweep is too good to give up for the ox, it's one of the best oh shit buttons I have.
    Leg Sweep is basically another tanking CD. BrM is the most unconventional tank when it comes to CDs with Exploding Keg, Leg Sweep/Statue, and roll-kiting. If you think of those things as Damage Reduction CDs then BrM becomes much much stronger.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •