[7.2] Legion Shadow Priest Guide and Discussion

[Relapses]

This argument doesn't work in Legion.

They sold Legion by saying "Mythic + dungeon as an alternative way of progress". They can't then say "oh but it's okay if you are shit in CM shadowpriests, you're good in raids if you have a good connection !"

I don't buy that Mythic+ was ever intended to be a full alternative to raiding. But even if we were to assume that's its intention, it begs the question: Why on God's green earth would you choose to main a Shadow Priest if your intention was to do 5-man content? Our lackluster performance in dungeons was in no way shape or form a huge secret on the Beta.

But more importantly, suppose Blizzard were to buff our burst AE potential to be on par with other classes.

Suddenly Shadow has an overloaded kit which can do everything. We have amazing ST, amazing multi-dot and amazing AE burst. There's now no reason for any other ranged DPS caster to exist. (Cue the: "But Mages already do this," which is an entirely separate argument against class homogenization.) These are concerns which the developers need to weigh properly before arbitrarily "fixing" the issues we have. For example, if they were to shave off some of the ST potency in our kit to offset the addition of burst AE, we then lose our niche in raids. The same problem we have now still exists, but it's flipped on its head: Shadow is now more viable for Mythic+ and less so in raids.

Hence why I said earlier that I feel like the most likely course of action is no change at all. Time will tell.

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Also, would totally love to see weaknesses being created for some specs like fire mage for example, because for some specs there are only strengths existing.

Fire is strong, no doubt. But it isn't particularly great at target swapping or dealing with multiple targets spread out. That's where multi-dot classes, especially Shadow, shine.

[Ilir]

Why on earth did I chosse a spec that I enjoy the most, I wonder...

And no, no one is asking for shadow to deal comparable amount of aoe damage as DH or WW. But more damage than Holy or tanks. Is that too much to ask ?

yeah we are good ST and in multidot it shouldn't mean we are useless at aoe.

Not to mention we will get nerfed again and over again because of StM which will make us even more miserable in outside of raid content.

The solution is so simple : limit the interaction of Mass Hysteria with StM. Buff/rework the level 100 talents urgently, rework some of our talents.

We have literally no choice in our talents.

ToF, Mindbender (or shadowcrash but I feel that's such a useless trade of), AS if no belt, SI if belt. STM.

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Also why can't Call to the Void's tentacles cast mindsear if we trigger them via mindsear ? At least it will be something...

[Annesh]

But more importantly, suppose Blizzard were to buff our burst AE potential to be on par with other classes.

Suddenly Shadow has ... decent ST, strong multi-dot and still subpar but at least not abysmal AE burst..

FTFY

And you and other people arguing from your perspective STILL fail to understand the concept of encounter type frequency. If I'm "above average" at A, really strong at B, and awful at C, that seems fair, right? Except between B and C, C happens all the time, while B is relatively rare. Well that just means I'm going to feel awful way more often than I'll feel awesome.

Unless the encounter design team REALLY commits to putting multiple stationary, un-clumpable monsters all over the place in dungeons and raids, bosses and trash both, then the fact that monsters move and can be gathered up on the tank will always work against us. And I just don't see that happening. The only other solution is to bring us up from "awful" to "subpar but not dumpster tier" on the thing we're supposed to be bad at.

[Deleted]

Simcraft just get updated:

LotV: 222k -> 248k
StM: 271k -> 292k

[Dawnrage]

So I just hopped on the PTR, and SW: D only has one charge now.

Hoping this is a bug...

[Djriff]

Simcraft just get updated:

LotV: 222k -> 248k
StM: 271k -> 292k

Please don't post random DPS numbers that have no meaning or background to them.
If you want to post simulation results that's fine, just give it some more context.

So I just hopped on the PTR, and SW: D only has one charge now.

Hoping this is a bug...

Probably a bug, happened on beta a couple times.

[Deleted]

Are the proc rates of trinkets correct in simcraft btw? Cause it seems to overrate the Spiked Tongue trinket a lot, and underrate the Dinosaur trinket. From my own experience (I know anecdotal) they both do around the same overall damage, but in sims the spiked tongue does 3x as much as the dinotrinket.

Also does anyone know the best neck enchant? Hidden satyr or Mark of the claw?

[Djriff]

Are the proc rates of trinkets correct in simcraft btw? Cause it seems to overrate the Spiked Tongue trinket a lot, and underrate the Dinosaur trinket. From my own experience (I know anecdotal) they both do around the same overall damage, but in sims the spiked tongue does 3x as much as the dinotrinket.

Also does anyone know the best neck enchant? Hidden satyr or Mark of the claw?

That sounds buggy to me if you're seeing different consistent results in game vs sims. Have you tried comparing using amr? Would be interesting to see those results.

As for the neck hidden satyr provides more potential.

[l33t]

Fire is strong, no doubt. But it isn't particularly great at target swapping or dealing with multiple targets spread out. That's where multi-dot classes, especially Shadow, shine.

I know about spread targets. I was talking about situations that actually exist in current content, you know.

[Dontrike]

Anyone else been having a bug where as soon as you use Void Explosion you will go into voidform and immediately leave it? Usually this leaves me with just one stack, and while it is great with the legendary shoulders to immediately be able to go back into voidform with 8 stacks I find it terribly annoying to find out I'm not in voidform.

Oh and congrats to those who got 2 legendaries, it was a bug. They fixed it, now those of you (like me) who didn't get one... well enjoy being behind everyone with 2 legendaries ^_^

I wouldn't worry about that too much, there is still almost a month until people can even start to use two legendaries. Having two now just allows you to have something else for a different situation, unless people were unlucky enough to get two of their worst ones.

[Kilee25]

Re trinkets: you generally want to cross-check them in game. Sometimes there are hotfixes sometimes simcraft might be using some beta values, etc

I pack rat trinkets, almost never throwing any out until the next expac.

Usually I would do all of the below:

1 simcraft
2 target dummy
3 addon that tracks proc rates and uptime
4 world of logs for uptime, average damage if it's a damage style trinket, etc...

Basically you try to cross check it with multiple sources, and don't trust just one. Always get a second opinion, unless it a stat stick.

In general, if in doubt go to the source (i.e. The actual game.)

[Ilir]

I wouldn't worry about that too much, there is still almost a month until people can even start to use two legendaries. Having two now just allows you to have something else for a different situation, unless people were unlucky enough to get two of their worst ones.

Yeah you need to worry because : now that is fixed you need to get your first one and before getting the 2nd one .... you will wait a LONG time.

SO in a month, you'll automatically be behind anyone with 2 legendaries due to a bug. Even if you get 2 of the worst ones... they have such a high ilvl (which they will be able to upgrade further in 7.1).

[darkxiao]

So I just read the patch notes for the 7.1 PTR. We now have Shadowform again! It increases our Shadow damage dealt by 10% and reduces physical damage by 10%. It has all the limitations as before such as not being able to cast Holy spells and it looks like the shadowy visual is now tied to Shadowform.

"Voidform now acts to intensify Shadowform. It automatically triggers Shadowform if not already active, and you gain the effects of both. When voidform ends, you return to shadowform."

And yes, Arcane Torrent now does generate 15 insanity.

Thoughts? Seems like that will help our damage a little bit outside of voidform. It's a step in the right direction at least

EDIT: When I logged into Battle.net this morning through the launcher and decided to update my PTR, there was a link to the patch notes through the launcher. It is no longer there. Maybe blizzard messed up? Either way I imagine they will release it soon. That's where I found that information from.

[Yvaelle]

So I just read the patch notes for the 7.1 PTR. We now have Shadowform again! It increases our Shadow damage dealt by 10% and reduces physical damage by 10%. It has all the limitations as before such as not being able to cast Holy spells and it looks like the shadowy visual is now tied to Shadowform.

"Voidform now acts to intensify Shadowform. It automatically triggers Shadowform if not already active, and you gain the effects of both. When voidform ends, you return to shadowform."

And yes, Arcane Torrent now does generate 15 insanity.

Thoughts? Seems like that will help our damage a little bit outside of voidform. It's a step in the right direction at least

I can't seem to find the notes to verify, but that would be a great improvement

Regarding Shadowform as a button, I don't think it's at all necessary.

Instead, I think they should just create a Glyph that removes Shadowform visual out of combat, and the people who want to see their xmog can use that - simplifies that for everyone - rather than everyone needing an assortment of macros to swap forms efficiently.

[Kaesebrezen]

I can't seem to find the notes to verify, but that would be a great improvement

Select Ptr on Launcher - Click Options - Click Patchnotes.

Same spell as previously pretty much. 10% Shadowdamage, and Physical Dmg reduction, and auto-toggle when you enter Voidform.

[darkxiao]

I can't seem to find the notes to verify, but that would be a great improvement

Regarding Shadowform as a button, I don't think it's at all necessary.

Instead, I think they should just create a Glyph that removes Shadowform visual out of combat, and the people who want to see their xmog can use that - simplifies that for everyone - rather than everyone needing an assortment of macros to swap forms efficiently.

Yea I randomly found the patch notes on the Blizzard launcher when I decided to update my PTR. I made the post literally 5 minutes after reading them but it looks like they took it down. I'm sure we will see a post about it soon!

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Select Ptr on Launcher - Click Options - Click Patchnotes.

Same spell as previously pretty much. 10% Shadowdamage, and Physical Dmg reduction, and auto-toggle when you enter Voidform.

Thanks you!

[Yvaelle]

Select Ptr on Launcher - Click Options - Click Patchnotes.

Same spell as previously pretty much. 10% Shadowdamage, and Physical Dmg reduction, and auto-toggle when you enter Voidform.

Yea I randomly found the patch notes on the Blizzard launcher when I decided to update my PTR. I made the post literally 5 minutes after reading them but it looks like they took it down. I'm sure we will see a post about it soon!

Ya I'm at work so can't check through the browser right now, but if they were through the launcher that sounds legit enough to me (albeit if they took it down, it's probably just an idea they are toying with, but still!)

[darkxiao]

Ya I'm at work so can't check through the browser right now, but if they were through the launcher that sounds legit enough to me (albeit if they took it down, it's probably just an idea they are toying with, but still!)

Here's a gyazo if that'll work :P
https://gyazo.com/032d16f5988db5309543a3a1575523ee

[Ilir]

Oh. That's actually quite good.

So if I understand correctly : we have 10% more dps and take 10% less damage while in SF and when we trigger VF, do we gain on top of that the VF damage boost but I think it would be overkill.

I guess it works like that : when we go into VF, the damage boost goes from 10% to 15%.

anyway, that's a pretty good change.

[Theed]

10% physical damage reduction has returned. <3