Pruning, remember when this game was so popular because it required skills.

[Crruor]

This is not true at all. Vanish + Prep allowed quick swaps or peels for teammates. Dismantle was a powerful tool as well as shiv to peel for teammates or set up kills.

Just stop you are exposing yourself by not understanding.

Nope, you didnt swap with vanish as you needed ramp up time with poisons or envenom didnt do damage (and you didnt have step so you had to waddle all the way and it was super predictable), and yes you could peel with vanish but that was basicely once every 2 minutes. It was extremely braindead. And no you didnt use shiv or dismantle on far away targets, simply because you had no step (so also no step kick etc). Sure you used dismantle and blind and you shived your main target (or a close by offtarget) and gouge and so on - but that really wasnt all that skillfull. 99% of the game you pressed mut-envenom-mut-envenom-mut-envenom over and over again till something died.

[Mafic]

Nope, you didnt swap with vanish as you needed ramp up time with poisons or envenom didnt do damage (and you didnt have step so you had to waddle all the way and it was super predictable), and yes you could peel with vanish but that was basicely once every 2 minutes. It was extremely braindead. And no you didnt use shiv or dismantle on far away targets, simply because you had no step (so also no step kick etc). Sure you used dismantle and blind and you shived your main target (or a close by offtarget) and gouge and so on - but that really wasnt all that skillfull. 99% of the game you pressed mut-envenom-mut-envenom-mut-envenom over and over again till something died.

You didn't need to use step for dismantle or shiv, so yes even Mut/Prep used those when healers were being trained. Most players that played Sub saved step for kick or kidneys or eating traps for teammates. Prep also allowed for two Sprints which makes Mut/Prep way more mobile along with two vanishes. Legion Assassination has only one sprint, one vanish and one shadow step.

Are you trolling?

Because being able to blind, shiv, dismantle, gouge as Mut/prep is all more skillful than Legion Assasination which does not have blind, shiv, gouge, or dismantle.

[Crruor]

More buttons doesnt mean more skill. It was essentially a 2 button spec for most of the time. Look, its not that current assa rogue is that hard to play, but its not THE spec to play at the moment. But in woltk mut was THE spec to play so it is only fair to compare it to sub or outlaw both of which require much more skill then mut rogue back then. Being a rogue in woltk was when the class (well, the best spec for most of the expansion) was at its easiest.

You didnt swap, you didnt maintain buffs, you didnt do fancy cc, you just pressed 1 and 2 till the target died, using your blind, disarm on CD and gouging whenever. Woltk sub rogue was incredebly skillfull but almost no one played it and it only was good for parts of season 8, the rest of the time it was shit. So people played a spec even more braindead then current rogues (dont get me wrong, current rogues are a op piece of shit that had all the fun of the class removed, they are basicely) teleporting super op warriors right now but they are still harder to play then mut was in woltk).


If you dont believe me go on the AT realm and play some mut rogue, then go on the legion beta and play some sub or outlaw rogue, youll see what i mean.

[Mafic]

More buttons doesnt mean more skill. .

Assassination has little/no utility in Legion. Thanks for confirming to me you are just trolling at this point.

Legion Outlaw/Legion Sub takes less skills to play than WotLK Mu/Prep, WotLK Sub and WotLK Combat

[Crruor]

Assassination has little/no utility in Legion. Thanks for confirming to me you are just trolling at this point.

Legion Outlaw/Legion Sub takes less skills to play than WotLK Mu/Prep, WotLK Sub and WotLK Combat

No, no and no. Stop spouting BS, woltk rogue was a joke bar sub which no one played bar a super tiny portion of players for a super tiny amount of time. Stop baiting/trolling!

[Sliske]

The most mechanically complex specs were a mix of mop and cata, i don't think any consistently good player argues against that.

yeah, there were some joke easy classes in both of those, but thats in all expansions.

for both pve and pvp btw.

expansion launch seasons don't count theres always some bullshit macro for a bullshit spec to go ham on those seasons and faceroll

[nodq]

Yeah not everyone did for sure. But from the pov of a pvper which I should have clarified, there was a whole lot more to do. Mages for example could utilize all 3 spell schools making them infinitely more interesting and dynamic (imo) destro lock which I played, had multiple spell schools, dots, nukes, procs, soul burned abilities, each pet had more utility and abilities, survivabilty cool downs, etc etc.

Are you kidding me? wotlk had a bad gameplay compared to TBC, you could use 1 macro for all spells with DK, Hunter etc. as a Shadow I casted 2 dots on someone when my sham did BL and silenced them and they died in 5 seconds because of stupid Haste numbers. It was more like who presses the faster in the first 3 GCDs.

TBC had the best pvp gameplay by far, there you had lot of stuff to do. and fights didn't last just 10 seconds.

[Segus1992]

Me neither.

I decided it was time to deliver the truth about this game to all the god damn WoD and MoP babies already.




Look at this Graph carefully first. As you can see WOW was at its most popular during Wrath of the lich king. Now lets see about that huge amount of skills that brought all those nerds to the yards.

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=105151

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=121407

So yeah, go pruning go.

It's funny how it's never the actually intelligent people that claim to know why WoW is in a decline.

"In a game that's lasted for over 10 years with over a HUNDRED MILLION total players and countless changes over the years, I know the ONE REASON the game is dropping subscribers!"

What the fuck? Are you fuckers for real?

EDIT: And oh yeah, the game never required skills. Stop the nostalgia /Vanilla player.

[minteK917]

It's funny how it's never the actually intelligent people that claim to know why WoW is in a decline.

"In a game that's lasted for over 10 years with over a HUNDRED MILLION total players and countless changes over the years, I know the ONE REASON the game is dropping subscribers!"

What the fuck? Are you fuckers for real?

EDIT: And oh yeah, the game never required skills. Stop the nostalgia /Vanilla player.

So either you cant read or agree with me.

[pinkz]

i remember in WOTLK .....mage/priests ruling 2's.....there was so much QQ on it, especially on how OP the Fmage was. i remember flagging 5 threads on WOW forums. as i went to them over the days, 3 were locked and removed, 1 was locked and referred to the another, and that one was closed/locked and deemed as unproductive even though players cited solid information, good data, good examples, and classes ruling 2600+ in 2's. more threads opened, and blizz repeated their censorship. CATA rolled and blizz wiped van-wow thru WOTLK forums.

blizzard wouldn't nerf a mage, so what they did, announced that they no longer balance 2's. also 2's ratings would no longer count towards gear purchases, 2's rating would still count towards achieves.

blizzard claimed they only balanced around 3's +, problem is what is OP in 1 vs 1, 1 vs 2, carries into 3's, 5's, and RBGs

ironiclly mages complained about in WOTLK:
- prot warriors intervene (charge that removed rooting/snare) it was nerfed.
- feral druids removing rooting/snare by shifting, feral druids were nerfed to no longer remove roots. reverted in next expac

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

If you dont want pruning, you want every class to have everything so there would be no point in having different classes. Many fail to realize this.

[Thelxi]

I'm all for the prune. The more the better. There is little skill involved in having high amounts of buttons to push, it is mostly memory on a learning curve. Skill comes from making decisions, which has little to do with the number of skills on your bars. Many of the people that are upset with the pruning would still suck even if they were given 3 buttons to push. Many of the people that are for the pruning would perform just as good with 3 skills as they would with 35. For some it's simply a matter of quality of life.

[Segus1992]

So either you cant read or agree with me.

If you want someone to read into your sarcasm, either make it obvious or don't prove your point with links to videos. People are bound to respond to your title as that'll always be the TL;DR.

Secondly, let's not pretend like any substantial amount of subscribers come from PvPers. So even your sarcastic point is silly.

[minteK917]

If you want someone to read into your sarcasm, either make it obvious or don't prove your point with links to videos. People are bound to respond to your title as that'll always be the TL;DR.

Secondly, let's not pretend like any substantial amount of subscribers come from PvPers. So even your sarcastic point is silly.

Im simply pointing out hardcore massive skills lost killing the game was never true. Its an illusion of something that was never in the game. Wow was a success based on how easy it was. Those videos are wotlk parody of people making macros with their abilties in cast random macro. Something blizzard actually nerfed. So if anything the harder the game got the less popular with it got ( doesent mean its linked, simply that the truth is literally opposite of some people narrative.)

[Segus1992]

Im simply pointing out hardcore massive skills lost killing the game was never true. Its an illusion of something that was never in the game. Wow was a success based on how easy it was. Those videos are wotlk parody of people making macros with their abilties in cast random macro. Something blizzard actually nerfed. So if anything the harder the game got the less popular with it got ( doesent mean its linked, simply that the truth is literally opposite of some people narrative.)

Okay so my original point still stands. You're just like the people who say it lost subs because it got easier. The literal only difference is that you claim it got harder.

There's literally no difference in stupidity, though. Read my original post again, just exclude the last sentence, as that was just a tidbit.

[minteK917]

Okay so my original point still stands. You're just like the people who say it lost subs because it got easier. The literal only difference is that you claim it got harder.

There's literally no difference in stupidity, though. Read my original post again, just exclude the last sentence, as that was just a tidbit.

I said it doesent mean its linked. Theres a huge difference actually. Claiming something that was never the strength of this game killing it (even if it is easily disproven). Its not the same as claiming, that i can show you that strength never existed in the first place, look elsewhere. I never made a claim of why the game lost sub, only a claim that it did not lose subs because of losing a factor of skills, something that was never this game forte even at its most popular.

[Palaplu]

I don't like what they did to prot and ret paladins (taking moves away and such) and I miss hit, expertise and reforging. Defense cap was maybe a little useless.

[HumbleDuck]

Nostalgia goggles, such nostalgia goggles.

Yea was gonna say the same thing. That vanilla PvP balance though.

[Krusza]

Me neither.

I decided it was time to deliver the truth about this game to all the god damn WoD and MoP babies already.




Look at this Graph carefully first. As you can see WOW was at its most popular during Wrath of the lich king. Now lets see about that huge amount of skills that brought all those nerds to the yards.

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=105151

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=121407

So yeah, go pruning go.

Why are you complaining? Maybe in 5 years time if trends continue, you'll get glad.

Be excited! Oh wait, this isn't the issue.

Seriously though, the game requires the same amount of skill it always has done.

The issue is that things haven't changed enough.

Something like saccing a poly used to a god-tier play back in the early days of arena. What happened? Eventually everyone learned how to do it. A few years ago, people at 1500 didn't fakecast. They do now. The things that used to be considered "plays" are just something that everyone now does. Not because they're easier, but because nothing's changed and eventually everyone learns how to do it. Things like fakecasting and saccing CC, leaping traps, etc. became basic PvP because they'd been done for years. Back when people started learning all the things you could do in the game, they were considered plays. Step kick was a play at some point, and how many rogues did that eventually? Pretty much all of them, because it'd been done for years.

The issue isn't pruning, it's the fact there's no changes happening. There's no new stuff to find out anymore. Everything's already been found out, plays become normal baseline gameplay. There's nothing new to come up with.

[Osmeric]

The notion that the game was popular because it required skills is silly, if by skills one means anything the forum blowhards would think was at all non-trivial.