Warlock PvP Survivability

[Ciani]

I'm really hoping I'm missing something, but it seems thatas much as they say we are "tanky", there's absolutely no games so far where I can 1v1 any melee yet (someone of equal skill, I mean). Yes, I can absorb a lot of damage, but my shields get depleted under 5 seconds by all melee. Monks being the fastest to deplete my shields. I get demolished by outlaw rogues and feral druids through unending resolve.

Boomkins are basically melee. Their burst is insane. They can kill me through shields and unending resolve.

Affliction buys me some time, but by the time my damage ramps up, I'm almost dead and without cooldowns.

Demonology, I really kind of baffled on how I'm supposed to reliably keep up shards to summon my minions. Like I gave up on this spec for PvP after 10 or so battlegrounds/skirmishes

Destruction, I rely on unending resolve to burst someone down. It's not bad, just requires some good interrupt juking. Same issue as demo however, by the time I have some chaos bolts lined up, I'm almost dead

I don't mean this as a QQ post, I'm looking to get some tips as how other are doing compared to me. If it means anything, before WOD (didn't play much in WOD) I'm usually a 2000-2200 arena player.

I'm struggling to perform as good as other casters. Boomkins and mages have getaways for days and more damage than me. Yes they are not tanky as me, but their damage is upfront for the most part and can reset fights and burst again like nothing.

I have to sit there and take damage in order for my ramp up time to take toll. By that time, I'm almost dead.

I'm not saying I don't kill people. I just have to work so much harder and be so careful about my positioning that any mistake in cool down management, positioning, or spell choice means I'm dead. There's no forgiveness for warlocks. Gateway is on a 1 minute cooldown that if I have a melee that sticks on me, I won't last another minute.

Sorry if this seemed like a rant, but I'm really looking to see if I'm just being retarded or am I not alone

[patrins]

What exactly is your healer doing during this? Are we talking about 1v1 duels? Lets not do that. Sounds entirely pointless.

[Ciani]

What exactly is your healer doing during this? Are we talking about 1v1 duels? Lets not do that. Sounds entirely pointless.

Yes, sorry. I should have mentioned this. In arena I feel more of a support damage while my outlaw rogue DPS partner just pretty much solos everything. it feels like Im just there to DOT and fear. I don't feel like im doing meaningful damage. My healer struggles to keep me alive after cool downs as I can no longer port since taking pact is almost mandatory at the moment.

[Deleted]

Warlocks are utter trash after unjustified nerfs during the pre-patch.

That and the talents are a bad joke, oh and then there's of course the Affliction arifact which literally cannot work in Arenas.

[Breaque]

Artifact power level and honor level, plays a huge part in both defense and offence for most classes. guess your opponents worked harder in the grind game.
But still , the game is no where balanced yet, both in pvp and pve.

[Deleted]

Artifact power level and honor level, plays a huge part in both defense and offence for most classes. guess your opponents worked harder in the grind game.
But still , the game is no where balanced yet, both in pvp and pve.

"Artifact power level and honor level, plays a huge part in both defense and offence for most classes. guess your opponents worked harder in the grind game." - What on earth do you base this on?

[Breaque]

"Artifact power level and honor level, plays a huge part in both defense and offence for most classes. guess your opponents worked harder in the grind game." - What on earth do you base this on?

Really..... do i have to literally explain it to you ?.
Ok then, artifact power requires a lot of Grinding in order to unlocks certain traits that greatly increase your damage out put and decrease your damage taken.

It increase your Total Health!, defensive skills [Sweet Souls,Drained to Husk,Shadow's of the Flesh, Harvester of Souls, Long Dark Night of the Soul] and relics that require Grinding . combine all that "Based on" , and you have much greater damage and defence.

So , player A Grinded AP to rank 20, and player B only has Artifact rank 5. Player A obliterates Player B, even though they are at the same skill level.

Now , how on earth you didn't catch that ? hope i made it clear for you.

[Jingoism]

It has little to do with AP grinding or some extra artifact points, warlocks are just in a poor place atm. Typically the first season of any xpac is very much dominated by melee cleaves and melee in general as a rule, so it's not terribly shocking to me personally. I think we'll end up scaling decently with ilvl as time goes on, but for now we're not looking amazing.

[Deleted]

lol come on , you have all bit . this is the biggest troll thread i have ever seen.

dark pact, unending resolve, every pet has an ability, Fear, portals.

Survivability for locks is so easy, borderline OP survivability.

[Deleted]

I'm really hoping I'm missing something, but it seems thatas much as they say we are "tanky", there's absolutely no games so far where I can 1v1 any melee yet (someone of equal skill, I mean). Yes, I can absorb a lot of damage, but my shields get depleted under 5 seconds by all melee. Monks being the fastest to deplete my shields. I get demolished by outlaw rogues and feral druids through unending resolve.

with pvp talents, u can 1v1 most classes except rogs, rets, warriors, monks. others r easy frag. boomkins canbe hard but not impossible. tanky? 2v1 ur dead in 10 sec. because we have no mobility, have no reall cc-s and when u get silenced u silenced, because our all spell is based on shadow.

[Deleted]

Really..... do i have to literally explain it to you ?.
Ok then, artifact power requires a lot of Grinding in order to unlocks certain traits that greatly increase your damage out put and decrease your damage taken.

It increase your Total Health!, defensive skills [Sweet Souls,Drained to Husk,Shadow's of the Flesh, Harvester of Souls, Long Dark Night of the Soul] and relics that require Grinding . combine all that "Based on" , and you have much greater damage and defence.

So , player A Grinded AP to rank 20, and player B only has Artifact rank 5. Player A obliterates Player B, even though they are at the same skill level.

Now , how on earth you didn't catch that ? hope i made it clear for you.

Jesus, knock down the condescending tone will ya? You specifically said that OP didn't have as much AP as those he fought, but there is absolutely nothing in his post that allows you to know that. So, why on earth would you assume that he is behind on AP? You could at least start by asking if he has a high artifact + honor level, instead of just saying "Well, your issues must be because other people grinded more honor and AP than you did".

Hope I made it clear for you.

[Deleted]

It has little to do with AP grinding or some extra artifact points, warlocks are just in a poor place atm. Typically the first season of any xpac is very much dominated by melee cleaves and melee in general as a rule, so it's not terribly shocking to me personally. I think we'll end up scaling decently with ilvl as time goes on, but for now we're not looking amazing.

Uuuhhh ...

[Jingoism]

Uuuhhh ...

Hey breh, some classes scale better than others later into expansions. I dunno how it'll all work out with the templates, but that's how it has worked in the past.

[Deleted]

Really..... do i have to literally explain it to you ?.
Ok then, artifact power requires a lot of Grinding in order to unlocks certain traits that greatly increase your damage out put and decrease your damage taken.

It increase your Total Health!, defensive skills [Sweet Souls,Drained to Husk,Shadow's of the Flesh, Harvester of Souls, Long Dark Night of the Soul] and relics that require Grinding . combine all that "Based on" , and you have much greater damage and defence.

So , player A Grinded AP to rank 20, and player B only has Artifact rank 5. Player A obliterates Player B, even though they are at the same skill level.

Now , how on earth you didn't catch that ? hope i made it clear for you.

20 seems like a reasonable number for most people to be, though I imagine many of the players who pvp aren't farming mythic dungeons - so 20 is probably generous right now.

My affliction artifact is currently 16, since I've got all 3 to 16 before investing further in destro. Let's say I have 4 more points left to spend - I could potentially get Sweet Souls, which would crank HS usage up a bit. I'm not sure what the exact numbers work out as, but considering Health Potions are already ahead, the gains won't be as large as the tooltip makes it sound. After that there's 6% drain life damage and 3% soul leech to be getting - I doubt that's going to make any notable difference to survivability.

That still won't help against the amount of damage and control a melee can put out right now.

Hey breh, some classes scale better than others later into expansions. I dunno how it'll all work out with the templates, but that's how it has worked in the past.

Affliction doesn't look like it's going to be scaling as well as usual from what I've heard, though I'm no mathmagician myself.

[Jingoism]

Affliction doesn't look like it's going to be scaling as well as usual from what I've heard, though I'm no mathmagician myself.

I know. I'm regretting putting so much AP into my artifact right now but I plan to ride it out and see if blizzard throws in some nice changes for us.

[Breaque]

Jesus, knock down the condescending tone will ya?

You made it look that way.

You specifically said that OP didn't have as much AP as those he fought, but there is absolutely nothing in his post that allows you to know that. So, why on earth would you assume that he is behind on AP?

If you had a moment to logically think about it. would someone play with 3 artifacts have that much AP to compete against 1 fully invested artifact ? OP clearly stated that he only played 10 or so games as demo. is that good artifact rank sample in your book ?

You could at least start by asking if he has a high artifact + honor level, instead of just saying "Well, your issues must be because other people grinded more honor and AP than you did".

Hope I made it clear for you.

I said it without any truculent intentions.

And i see it would be best to ignore you in order to avoid any unnecessary argument.

- - - Updated - - -

20 seems like a reasonable number for most people to be, though I imagine many of the players who pvp aren't farming mythic dungeons - so 20 is probably generous right now.

My affliction artifact is currently 16, since I've got all 3 to 16 before investing further in destro. Let's say I have 4 more points left to spend - I could potentially get Sweet Souls, which would crank HS usage up a bit. I'm not sure what the exact numbers work out as, but considering Health Potions are already ahead, the gains won't be as large as the tooltip makes it sound. After that there's 6% drain life damage and 3% soul leech to be getting - I doubt that's going to make any notable difference to survivability.

That still won't help against the amount of damage and control a melee can put out right now.



Affliction doesn't look like it's going to be scaling as well as usual from what I've heard, though I'm no mathmagician myself.

I'm playing destro atm. and rank 20 with my Artifact , the trait Demonic Durability made a great deal difference for me. pretty much up every 52 sec , 40% reduction and immune to silence. and you gotta have the burst from Conflagration Chaos and Lord of Flames. and could only achieved that by 121k AP. same amount you spent on 3 artifacts.

But i agree that melee is in a nuisance state atm , and the expansion is still in it's early stages. we would have to wait for the tuning to hit and then judge on surviveability , since all classes will need to unlock all artifact trait , so it would give a good tuning sample both in pvp and pve.

[Cempa]

lol come on , you have all bit . this is the biggest troll thread i have ever seen.

dark pact, unending resolve, every pet has an ability, Fear, portals.

Survivability for locks is so easy, borderline OP survivability.

I tested this many times:

Feral opens .. If I trinket the 4sec opener stun a 5sec stun incoming .. If I don't trinket he has full stacks on me with artifact bleed by which time my health is racing to 50%.. I tried several times to stack all DR's and still died WITH MY DR's (with in 10sec -15sec of opener) ..

You may argue Feral damage (rake+moonfire) is OP .. you may even try to brush this away by saying 'well all leather damage is OP right now' and give me a kind of 'resilence will fix it' answer but we both know that won't fly ..

You go up against a random lock who may have maxed out Artifact Power and unlocked all PvP talents and you are still a young padawan and ASSUME the build is OP ..