Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[Deleted]

what how?!

I simmed mine and using prep is a 6k dps increase over demon blades, I'm 40% crit, 5% haste and 18% mastery and 9% vers unbuffed

Here you have my simulations:
Prepared: askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/4c515cf2afbe462fb71db23914811e1b
DB: askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/e2cfb5e2c910424b99a10f9010a4106e

8k dps increase with DB???

[Deleted]

Here you have my simulations:
Prepared: askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/4c515cf2afbe462fb71db23914811e1b
DB: askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/e2cfb5e2c910424b99a10f9010a4106e

8k dps increase with DB???

no its an 8k dps over DB when I take prep

and the reason your getting that is because your using AMR, the rotation is wrong use SimC

[Deleted]

no its an 8k dps over DB when I take prep

and the reason your getting that is because your using AMR, the rotation is wrong use SimC

Ok thanks for your input!
Hope that AMR will adjust the rotation to be right too...i like AMR way more then SimC^^

[Zoopercat]

@collata The AMR rotation isn't wrong. You a'ready used the 'no movement' rotation, which is what people prefer, so you're all set.

And if you want a different rotation, you can edit one, ask someone to share one, or use Zarania's who's been making his own as well. It requires a more complicated in-game rotation, but squeezes out about 1% more dps: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory...8e881cf49b0d9b

Click that link, and if you are logged in, you can add it to your rotation list and use that.
@Nurhlag If you have improvements to point out, I'm all ears.

[ryan11d7]

So I am just curious how you guys are handling bloodlet and the double charge of throw glaive. What is the proper way to use it, do you use both charges to "stack" more bloodlet damage, or is the extra charge used as a cushion to always keep it up and make life easier. Are we taking it for the extra damage or just quality of life.

Also does our stat weight listed here hold true now? Crit>Vers=>Haste>Mastery depending upon talents.

Are you guys finding Fel Bar or Chaos Blade to be better? I know alot of it is based upon the type of fight but, overall what do you find stronger/more fluid.

Thanks

[Unraveller]

The numbers I'm seeing on my own sims indicate a very small difference.

At ilvl 846, with demon blades, I get the following numbers:
5 targets = 766,724k
1 target = 229,385k

With prepared, I get:
5 targets = 767,337k
1 target = 233,634k

That is a 1.8% difference on single target, and 0.01% difference on 5 targets.
And here's why I care about this: I find demon blades to be a HUGE quality of life improvement.
I know, I know. It's the "passive" talent. It's for noobs, etc, etc.

I ran prepared all through the prepatch period and while leveling up to 110. Then I switched to demon blades as an experiment, and I found one thing about it that I absolutely love.
You're aware that, in the course fel-rushing and vengeful-retreating about, we frequently take ourselves out of melee range on smaller targets (like most dungeon mobs/bosses). Typically I TG while returning to melee range, but it is an absolute drag to FR/VR...run back to melee range...and then have to spam demon's bite because you don't have enough fury to do anything else. I hate that. And the problem is that pooling fury before FR/VR isn't great either because you'll inevitably lose momentum uptime if you do so.
HOWEVER, when specced into demon blades, I FR/VR out of range, TG as I'm closing back in.....and the MOMENT I arrive back in melee range, I get a huge delivery of fury as my swing timer effectively reset itself while I was out of range. It is fantastic and it allows me to press meaningful buttons as soon as I get back in range. I can basically follow every FR/VR with Chaos Strikes without ever having to "waste" momentum uptime mashing a builder.

"But you're doing less damage......?"
Yes, a tiny bit. I can't dispute that. But every global with a missed demon's bite would reduce the small advantage that prepared holds over demon blades. I'm becoming of the opinion that prepared is a LOT of extra work for a tiny payoff in output.

For what it's worth, I completely agree. I honestly can't believe people don't see the utility and efficiency improvements of Chaos Blades vs. Prepared. I'd argue that it's better in Dummy-training even, let alone actual bosses where you are moving around, and can't always sit in melee range to spam GCD.

I enjoyed the analytic approach that WOW community started moving towards took during WOTLK, but now it feels like the players would rather win a Simcraft than clear a boss or even win the recount. It's a lot like the sports revolution, there's a lot of use to the analytics, but people take it way too far.

Once we have raid parses to go through, you're going to see the Demon Hunter community take a BIG 180 and move away from Prepared, I guarantee.

[bryntjl]

Something I would like to get a solid answer on, what happened to potion of the old war? Right now deadly grace is doing twice its damage. Is it intentional or a bug? I just cant see them intending the potion of the old war being worse for melee, that makes no sense what so ever.

[Adoxe]

Something I would like to get a solid answer on, what happened to potion of the old war? Right now deadly grace is doing twice its damage. Is it intentional or a bug? I just cant see them intending the potion of the old war being worse for melee, that makes no sense what so ever.

AFAIK the dmg from Old War doesn't get fully registered by DPS meters, even though it does about the same dps as deadly grace.

- - - Updated - - -

The numbers I'm seeing on my own sims indicate a very small difference.

At ilvl 846, with demon blades, I get the following numbers:
5 targets = 766,724k
1 target = 229,385k

With prepared, I get:
5 targets = 767,337k
1 target = 233,634k

That is a 1.8% difference on single target, and 0.01% difference on 5 targets.
And here's why I care about this: I find demon blades to be a HUGE quality of life improvement.
I know, I know. It's the "passive" talent. It's for noobs, etc, etc.

I ran prepared all through the prepatch period and while leveling up to 110. Then I switched to demon blades as an experiment, and I found one thing about it that I absolutely love.
You're aware that, in the course fel-rushing and vengeful-retreating about, we frequently take ourselves out of melee range on smaller targets (like most dungeon mobs/bosses). Typically I TG while returning to melee range, but it is an absolute drag to FR/VR...run back to melee range...and then have to spam demon's bite because you don't have enough fury to do anything else. I hate that. And the problem is that pooling fury before FR/VR isn't great either because you'll inevitably lose momentum uptime if you do so.
HOWEVER, when specced into demon blades, I FR/VR out of range, TG as I'm closing back in.....and the MOMENT I arrive back in melee range, I get a huge delivery of fury as my swing timer effectively reset itself while I was out of range. It is fantastic and it allows me to press meaningful buttons as soon as I get back in range. I can basically follow every FR/VR with Chaos Strikes without ever having to "waste" momentum uptime mashing a builder.

"But you're doing less damage......?"
Yes, a tiny bit. I can't dispute that. But every global with a missed demon's bite would reduce the small advantage that prepared holds over demon blades. I'm becoming of the opinion that prepared is a LOT of extra work for a tiny payoff in output.

What extra work lol? Time your shit better, you won't have downtime. Even a small difference like that isn't enough to suddenly make everyone change to Demon Blades. The only reason anyone should ever go to that talent is if it proves to be better, which right now it is not and it needs to stay that way - passive talents like that are absolutely boring and dumb.

[Icecreamcake]

Is there a set opener in paper anywhere? I for the life of me cannot figure out the proper single target opener. This is assuming there is no adds involved what so ever.

Here is what I'm currently doing:

Fel Rush
FoTI
2xGT
Demons Bite to 50-80 Fury
Metamorphosis
Fel Rush
2x Chaos Strike/Annihilation
Demons Bite to 50-80 Fury
Vengeful Retreat
Chaos Strike/Annihilation
Glave Throw
Chaos Strike/Annihilation
Demons Bite to 50-80 Fury
Fel Rush
2x Chaos Strike/Annihilation

And I can't seem to do over 300k on a single target fight, but I've seen other Havocs do well over 300k

Still looking for a response to this

I'm 849 with 870 weapons, pulling about 270k-280k on single target fights (no adds involved, minimal movement)

Are there any guides or examples out there with a good showcase of excellent single target rotation?

[Pigglix]

My opening usually goes:
Fel Rush
Throw Glaive x2
FoTI
Build Fury to 70-80
VR
Fel barrage
Pop Meta
1 Annihilation
Fel Rush
single target rotation starts.

[mitre27]

After siming your character, where do you see stat weights?

[Deix-EU]

Still looking for a response to this

I'm 849 with 870 weapons, pulling about 270k-280k on single target fights (no adds involved, minimal movement)

Are there any guides or examples out there with a good showcase of excellent single target rotation?

You are wasting a VR CD by doing double FR instead of FR / VR at the begining which delay the whole thing. VR before meta, no fel rush until your momentum is 0.5 sec. and you're good to go, also GT before Anni unless you're full of fury. Time VR / FR to do it just before momentum expires each time and look at Throw glaive carefully, Bloodlet will be your first source of DPS if played well.

[Dangg]

What extra work lol? Time your shit better, you won't have downtime.

I highly doubt anyone is able to have usuage of prepared like assumed by the simulatin.

[Deix-EU]

I highly doubt anyone is able to have usuage of prepared like assumed by the simulatin.

It's not a matter of doing like the sim, it's a matter of doing more, simply more. Cause doing like the sim with Demon Blades is the same. Impossible to compete a computer. Simply play what you are better at. I'm better at Prepared momentum DPS. I tried a bit Demon Blades, I feel like lot of "wait fury" time. At least with prepared "those" moments are filled with either prepared OR Demon's bite.

[Coalbane]

I want to be sure my understanding of the APL inside and outside of Meta is crystal clear, particularly where TG ranks to prevent sitting on charges when you do have fury and could be doing something else, so I hope you won't mind if I seek some clarification while I'm sitting at work with nothing better to do.

Priority List, Single Target

Annihilation
Eye Beam (ST: with Anguish only)
Throw Glaive (@ empty fury only)
Fury of the Illidari (@ empty fury only)
Chaos Strike

Priority List, Single Target

Outside of Metamorphosis

1. Throw Glaive (capped charges) - Prevent sitting on charges?
2. Eye Beam (only with Anguish)
3. Throw Glaive (low fury)
4. Fury of the Illidari (low Fury)
5. Chaos Strike
6. Generate Fury

Inside of Metamorphosis

1. Throw Glaive (capped charges) - Prevent sitting on charges?
2. Annihilation
3. Eye Beam (only with Anguish) - Never used it competes with Annihilation for fury?
4. Throw Glaive (low fury)
5. Fury of the Illidari (low Fury)
6. Generate Fury

Priority List, Multi-Target (2-3 Targets)

Fel Barrage (@ 4-5 stacks)
Eye Beam
Annihilation
Throw Glaive
Fury of the Illidari
Chaos Strike
Death Sweep
Blade Dance

Priority List, Multi-Target (2-3 Targets)

Outside of Metamorphosis

1. Fel Barrage (@ 4-5 stacks)
2. Throw Glaive (capped charges) - Prevent sitting on charges?
3. Eye Beam
4. Throw Glaive
5. Fury of the Illidari
6. Chaos Strike
7. Blade Dance - Never used because it competes with Chaos Strike for fury?
8. Generate Fury

Inside of Metamorphosis

1. Fel Barrage (@ 4-5 stacks)
2. Throw Glaive (capped charges) - Prevent sitting on charges?
3. Eye Beam
4. Annihilation
5. Throw Glaive (low fury)
6. Fury of the Illidari (low fury)
7. Death Sweep - Never used because it competes with Annihilation for fury?
8. Generate Fury

Priority List, Multi-Target (4+ Targets)

Fel Barrage (@4-5 stacks)
Eye Beam
Death Sweep
Blade Dance
Throw Glaive
Fury of the Illidari
Annihilation
Chaos Strike

Priority List, Multi-Target (4+ Targets)

Outside of Metamorphosis

1. Fel Barrage (@4-5 stacks)
2. Throw Glaive (capped charges) - Prevent sitting on charges?
3. Eye Beam
4. Blade Dance
5. Throw Glaive
6. Fury of the Illidari
7. Annihilation
8. Generate Fury

Inside of Metamorphosis

1. Fel Barrage (@4-5 stacks)
2. Throw Glaive (capped charges) - Prevent sitting on charges?
3. Eye Beam
4. Death Sweep
5. Throw Glaive
6. Fury of the Illidari
7. Chaos Strike
8. Generate Fury

[Shirofune]

I would put FotI higher in the ST rotation, because if you're using it when you've no fury, is usually at the end of the Momo window.

FotI damage is affected through all of its duration by the Momo buff, so it should be used near the beggining of it.

[Coalbane]

I would put FotI higher in the ST rotation, because if you're using it when you've no fury, is usually at the end of the Momo window.

FotI damage is affected through all of its duration by the Momo buff, so it should be used near the beggining of it.

I get what you're saying, but for the purposes of ranking abilities against each other, I think we assume Momo is up for all of them. Also, even if you drop FotI at the end of a Momo window, you are probably going to follow that up with a Fel Rush or VR to refresh Momo anyway.

[kliffharry]

I get what you're saying, but for the purposes of ranking abilities against each other, I think we assume Momo is up for all of them. Also, even if you drop FotI at the end of a Momo window, you are probably going to follow that up with a Fel Rush or VR to refresh Momo anyway.

You wont refresh Momo if you're out of fury so FotI is always best used as the first ability in a Momo window

[Vanyali]

@Coalbane


That's more or less correct. There are weird exceptions (sometimes for 3 targets you might hit BD because they *all* need to die fast, and it's that much extra damage squeezed in for example), or EB not used ST for 30s because at 33s adds are coming and it's a higher gain to wait. The reason why it seems EB is never cast during a meta is because, frankly, there's no reason to - use it just before you pop into meta and it won't come up until after if it's a pure ST fight. On AoE it does outdo Annihilation.

The TG portion is very very very important to never be sitting on 2 charges; you'll always want it at 1 or 0, never 2. Every second it's on 2 is a pretty decent chunk of damage swirling away.


As for FoTI, I might need to tweak that just slightly given that we went RoTI first, and RoTI does something I wasn't sure whether or not it does - it double dips momo. Having momo up for the duration is good, having it up for the explosion is good, but having it up for both means that both the initial damage *and* the explosion seem to be hit with the modifier, increasing the damage by quite a bit for being in that window. Which means it just needs two positions on there to reflect with and without the trait, really.

[mitre27]

Nobody can tell me where on the sims it tells you stat weights?