Japan has a worrying number of virgins, government finds

[Leyre]

For a small fee I would be happy to help some of the females become non-virgins.

If all the japs wimynz were like Anri Okita i'll do it for free

[Osmeric]

Except there is no single nation in the history of the world that has ever ceased to exist from low birthrates.

I've heard nothing ever happens for the first time.

[Maconi]

Never heard of Eugenics, I see. Those who have kids the old-fashioned way will be decriminated against when that happens. I say that knowing we are within 15 years of reaching that point. It's a door that should never be opened.

Those who are for it can't begin to imagine the long-term consequences of artificial population control. Science Fiction, for the most part just scratches the surface of the dangers or artificially controlling the human population to that extent. Pregnancy eventually becoming outlawed to maximize productivity aside, there's also the people born in labs who will know they exist only for a predetermined purpose. Pregnancy won't be outlawed at first but after a while people will say "Why should a woman risk miscarriage, dying during pregnancy or bying in childbirth when you can just grow a baby in an artificial womb?". Employers will get on board and cut back on Maternity Leave to pressure women into going to a lab if they want a baby.

It's sounding like the plot of the movie Man of Steel but it's the logical outcome when you turn to artificial population control. We're talking education centers being built to train whole generations of people born from artificial wombs so the general population isn't burdened with raising them. This generation of people will have grown up knowing they were "created", not born into the world. This won't happen at first but eventually, it will.

When you automate every aspect of life, you no longer "live". You just exist. When you just "exist", you're no longer "alive".




Eh...Japan and many other Asian Countries don't view things that way. They're just...stubborn. LOL.

That last bit is straight up science fiction lol. Sure, if artificial wombs were invented then natural childbirth would be viewed as archaic (similar to choosing a midwife over a hospital now), and maybe eventually there would be social pressures to use them, but that's where it ends. You'd still have to raise your own child after the incubation period was over (their "birth day"). It would be a ridiculous burden on the government to raise hordes of children in some kind of bizarre "education centers" as you said.

Japan's problems are two-fold.

#1 is that modern society just doesn't allow for proper child raising. There's too much pressure on the average person at work and most bring it home with them (either the stress or actual work they're forced to complete on their own time). That's ignoring all the modern social pressures outside of work. There's just no time/place for children and even if you could afford childcare in your steed then what's the point (someone else is raising your child at that point anyway)?

#2 is the modern male/female interaction. Men and women are still expected to treat relationships like they did half a century ago (at least during the courtship phase). Men are expected to be the givers and women the receivers (no innuendo intended). Men are supposed to plan and perform all these romantic acts while showering the woman in gifts, and the woman is supposed to just be this pretty thing hanging on his arm who might eventually reward him with sex if he really impresses her. It's completely 1-sided in a modern world where women are supposed to be equals (women end up enjoying all the benefits and hold all the power regarding sex). A lot of men are realizing that relationships are NOT worth it and instead choose to just enjoy their young life with women outside of relationships. That results in an extremely delayed marriage age and zero desire to rear/raise children.

That's all just IMO from what I've observed through the power of the internets. I'm luckily, happily married (although the wife and I both agree that children are out of the question due to #1) but I can only imagine how much worse dating is in the age of Tender and what not.

[Deleted]

What a bunch of hyperbole. You people are acting like Japan is down to 5 Men and fighting over the last Women. Populations grow and shrink. Japan is nowere near to your Doomsday calls.

[Sunseeker]

I've heard nothing ever happens for the first time.

Could something theoretically happen if certain presumed conditions are met within a given timeframe? Yes.

But that's a huge hypothetical and the comparison was that Japan would go the way Europe will go because that's what has happened to "nations" in history. Except those "nations" don't exist. The parable doesn't exist. You can't claim "This thing will happen because that's how it happened before." when the "before" has never been.

Anyone is more than welcome to say "I think" followed by their assertion.

[breadisfunny]

"Strong Independent Women" = Less woman willing to date, have children, deal with men in any way, also a natural turnoff for men.

no what turns me off is manipulative greedy women aka GOLDDIGGERS and liars.

[Sunseeker]

The "short" to "medium" term we are discussing here is 30 to 50 years. I don't think you grasp the scope and scale of human suffering this demographic collapse could lead to.

Lay off your pseudo Marxist high horse for a second and do a reality check.

No rational economist is going to give you an economic prediction for 30-50 years out. It doesn't exist. You can barely predict the market 10 years in the future and most economic predictions are 5 years or less. No model for what may happen in 30 years is going to be of any use without it relying on so many assumed variable staying a certain way that in 10 years the model would be useless. Even your own statements there talk about "service economy" and the current structure of economics. 50 years ago Japan wasn't even a service economy!

So I'll lay off my Marxist crap (which this had nothing to do with) just as soon as you actually understand predictive economic modeling.

[Deleted]

A lot of American nerds love Japanese women. Some enterprising entrepreneur could arrange some kind of themed travel package you'd think.

I like the japanese girls myself, have you seen how they look, jesus christ.

But these japanese people need to start reproducing, all the good nations natality is on the fall, in 100 years we will be in the mud shithole planet, comon. I want my grand kids and forward to see some good pusay, instead of being storied of how good girls used to look in the past.

[Kraenen]

What a bunch of hyperbole. You people are acting like Japan is down to 5 Men and fighting over the last Women. Populations grow and shrink. Japan is nowere near to your Doomsday calls.

It's probably overpopulated, if anything.

[Mistame]

no what turns me off is manipulative greedy women aka GOLDDIGGERS and liars.

I'm sure you've had extensive experience with them.

[AkundaMrdal]

Lot of weebos would be glad to help, but Japanese womens wouldn't touch us with a barge pole.

[Deleted]

I like the japanese girls myself, have you seen how they look, jesus christ.

Guy with yellow fever spotted.

[MegaVolti]

The easiest solution of course would be immigration, but that is not a palatable option to a wildly racist and xenophobic society like that of Japan.

Actually that's the worst and by far most shitty solution ever.

Highly educated immigrants that actually contribute to the country are very rare. There simply aren't enough of those to go around and every country wants them.

The shitty immigrants, uneducated people from shitty countries, will bring their shitty problems with them and they are also very likely to rely on benefits. So instead of them helping out your country the shrinking labour force now has to support the elderly and a giant amount of useless immigrants without education and no perspective at all in the job market (which is currently happening in Germany for example).

On top of it all if you take in enough immigrants to actually combat population decline it means that you will have replaced your whole population within 2-3 generations. This is bound to come with MASSIVE cultural problems, I'd bet that no society on this planet can survive this much cultural stress without a civil war.

No, immigration is not even remotely a solution to population decline. It's nice to get a few highly educated immigrants in (as many as possible - but there simply aren't that many to begin with), but you really have to get your own population to reproduce if you want to survive in the long run.

Or help out artificially, growing the population in tubes would work, too

No rational economist is going to give you an economic prediction for 30-50 years out.

That doesn't quite count. Yes, sure, nobody can make economic predictions about interest rate movements etc. for 30-50 years. Because these things change on a scale of a year and making predictions about something that changes every year for 30 years is hard.
But populations don't change every year. They change in generations. So when talking about populations, a prediction of 30-50 years is like making an economic prediction of 1-2 years only.
Not necessarily perfect but possible.

[Afrospinach]

It's probably overpopulated, if anything.

127million, double the pop of the UK and barely 50% more land mass.

[Osmeric]

Could something theoretically happen if certain presumed conditions are met within a given timeframe? Yes.

But that's a huge hypothetical and the comparison was that Japan would go the way Europe will go because that's what has happened to "nations" in history. Except those "nations" don't exist. The parable doesn't exist. You can't claim "This thing will happen because that's how it happened before." when the "before" has never been.

Anyone is more than welcome to say "I think" followed by their assertion.

In all fairness, the current situation of sustained low birth rates after the demographic transition has also never occurred before in history.

So by your argument, the current situation shouldn't even exist. Yet, it does, and pointing to an irrelevant past doesn't much illuminate where this will be going.

[wowaccounttom]

Once we invent artificial wombs we'll be fine

um...

oooohhhh.... you mean those that can actually have babies....

nm then.

[Kraenen]

No, immigration is not even remotely a solution to population decline. It's nice to get a few highly educated immigrants in (as many as possible - but there simply aren't that many to begin with), but you really have to get your own population to reproduce if you want to survive in the long run.

Or help out artificially, growing the population in tubes would work, too

But if Japan becomes dominated by immigrants from across the world, those people will be Japanese, right?

[Deleted]

But if Japan becomes dominated by immigrants from across the world, those people will be Japanese, right?

No, why would they be?

[Sanguinesun]

Unlike most in this thread, I've been here for close to 20 years. The primary issue with the negative birth rate is economic primarily and social secondary. Raising a child in Japan is extremely expensive. Kindergartens(hoikuen 0-5/6 and yochien 3-5/6 ) are primarily private or subsidized. 600-1000 US is not uncommon a cost for parents to pay per month to have a child in em. Most elementary schools are public but still have many costs associated with them that add up. Then comes middle and HS which are mostly like kinders, private. Then you have to factor the way the education system being heavily dependent on, yep, private supplemented learning after school (tutors, cram schools for examples and more). Its pretty insane and leads to all manner of other social issues too.

That alone is enough to deter people from having kids.

Then lets add to this that Japan has one of the lowest adoption placement rates in any developed country due to primarily social stigmas and legal quagmires.
Then add to this an increasingly stagnating economy where the average pay for workers really hasnt increased very much at all(even divided with the ever shrinking bonus options customary here) for 2-3 decades.

And I could go on with other social and economic morays here. Its completely a perfect storm for making the population not grow.

[Kraenen]

No, why would they be?

Idk, that's what people always say about immigrants to Europe or America. They consider people to be Japanese if they simply have it written on an ID card, basically.