7.1 spoilers "An Elven Problem"

[Syegfryed]

please, guys, no more neutral races, and principally, no more elves races, 2 is enough, stop talking about, what if kosak see this

[Beloren]

please, guys, no more neutral races, and principally, no more elves races, 2 is enough, stop talking about, what if kosak see this

lol.. maybe people will really like the elves after this, and the Elf hate might stop? it's nice having this instead of Orc orc orc, human human human, even if it's mostly night elves, it feels like all elves are involved, and it's nice.

I think people are less bashful when the elf stuff is more with an alliance based bracket, I haven't seen the usual elf hate that comes up from other horde players when blood elves are the focus.

It's also prob why nightborne will end up alliance if they become playable, because there is a lot of elf hate. but if they become playable on the alliance, I think you can kiss playable alliance high elves good bye, because nightborne will take there place and they'll have more dialog and cause to be engaged with night elven affairs, whereas high elves would continue to be swallowed up by human dominance.

[Raetary]

please, guys, no more neutral races, and principally, no more elves races, 2 is enough, stop talking about, what if kosak see this

how many is enough is up for blizzard to decide.

[Beloren]

@Mehrunes @ravenmoon .. when I see Nightborne, I see the Night Elves of the Ancient Kal'dorei empire returned all new and fancy lookin (kinda because it's not really improved it's a bit corrupted because of the nightwell). I don't see them as Kal'dorei, you never see Highborne or Nightborne refer to themselves as Kal'dorei, ever - it's like becoming Quel'dorei and now Shal'dorei is a status badge that is above just normal Kal'dorei. But more than that happened with the night elves of Suramar, it was more than just a status shift, because a racial transformation did happen. Try to look at it from the eyes of a nightborne. Your body has changed over time, but you don't feel or think of yourself any different, you are still the night elf you once were, in your customs, but the perpetual shroud of night as given your people to elevate themselves to a new level of Shal'dorei, no longer Kal'dorei or Quel'dorei, but Shal'dorei, a new race of the night elves. You are no longer a Night Elf, but a Nightborne Elf.

Now what RAvenmoon is doing, and I don't disagree with him, is he is stating that Nightborne Elf is still an elf of the night or in short, a night elf (rather than write elf of the night all the time or ancient Night elf, or nocturnal elf, you can shorten that to night elf beacause that is what the term also means. It isn't exclusive to the name of the group called the Night ELves, it's also just short for elf of the night also descriptive. This is what you've both beeen arguing over, and it makes little difference to anything except perhaps egos? They will always be Nightborne elves, not Night Elves, and continue to be elves of the night or night elves, and they willl continue to be the Ancient Night Elves in new form. So you've basically being arguing over a technicality... which is taking nerdism to a new level.

Isn't basically what you guys saying is nightborne is a night elf sub race, and the other guy saying it isn't. But who can define sub-race.. nightborne look pretty much like night elves - but obviously aren't: so they're not Night Elves, but night elven sub-race since they're very night elf-like and it's all night elf empire stuff, and devs say they are the ancient night elves from the Kal'dorei empire.

Simple.

- - - Updated - - -

how many is enough is up for blizzard to decide.

yes, look how many humans and orcs we have:

human: Human - stormwind, arathor, alterac, kul'tiras, gilneas, dalaran, Vrykul, Worgen, Forsaken, Kvaldir, Half elf, Half orc - ---- all of these are human related
Orcs: Durotans, Mag'har, Fel orcs, Iron Orcs , Frostwolf orcs, Blackrock orcs, Dragonmaw orcs, Hellfire Orcs, Half orc/dranei, Half-orc/human
Elves: [Night]: Night Elf, Nightborne Elf, Highborne Elf, Fal'dorei, [Thalassian] High Elf, Blood Elf, Darkfallen

even if you count Withered and Wretched, they're still behind. if you split them up into the Night group and the Thalassian group (for those who insist they are a different species) even worse.. so we could use more.

[Syegfryed]

lol.. maybe people will really like the elves after this, and the Elf hate might stop? it's nice having this instead of Orc orc orc, human human human, even if it's mostly night elves, it feels like all elves are involved, and it's nice.

you are implying the most playable race on wow, and most of the rpgs who exist, is a hated race? maybe they get hate, but like any other race...

also, whats the reason to make another elf playable, who It is almost equal to what we already have? its like having mag'har orcs playable...what a waste

if another elf become playable should be the naga

[Beloren]

you are implying the most playable race on wow, and most of the rpgs who exist, is a hated race? maybe they get hate, but like any other race...

also, whats the reason to make another elf playable, who It is almost equal to what we already have? its like having mag'har orcs playable...what a waste

if another elf become playable should be the naga

yeah, I know, which is why many are saying playable as a subrace if they do those. But if they don't remember we have 2 additionial human races playable as full races, Worgen and Forsaken.

What wow needs is sub-races. a full new race will just get added to the pile of forgotten as we go back to human/orcs... until blizzard expand their system to givesomlevel of focus on race n an expansion, exactly they did for classes in Legion, I'd say definitely sub-races, which would fit perfectly with new race-system

[KrazyK923]

I have to say, irrelevant of the Night/High/Blood Elf plots, I'm REALLY enjoying the Nightfallen storyline. Thalyssra coming across like the absolute bamf that I knew she was.

Even though I know we won't see them past Legion, I really would love to see a Nightborne faction with Thalyssra as the Grand Magistrix.

[Deleted]

Moderation actions are not open to discussion within a forum. Feel free to PM me or another moderator if you need any clarification on the rules or codes of conduct, or have any questions in this particular vein.

oh yes please, I got a Minor Spam or something because I uploaded a picture and now I feel so bad about it

[Deleted]

I'm growing sick of Belfs really quickly right now. They've been at the center and forefront for three expansions in a row now. It's enough. They had the most developement of any race in MoP, they were of high importance all throughout WoD despite the fact that they shouldn't have been and now they've returned to be all over the place and the most prominent Horde race once again.

How about we get some Goblins instead, maybe some Tauren, what about Trolls? Screw Belfs. They went from "Who?" to the center of the entire Horde story-

[Magnagarde]

I'm growing sick of Belfs really quickly right now. They've been at the center and forefront for three expansions in a row now. It's enough. They had the most developement of any race in MoP, they were of high importance all throughout WoD despite the fact that they shouldn't have been and now they've returned to be all over the place and the most prominent Horde race once again.

How about we get some Goblins instead, maybe some Tauren, what about Trolls? Screw Belfs. They went from "Who?" to the center of the entire Horde story-

Felves(fel elves, yes) are popular among Horde players.

Blizzard is simply cattering to the most popular Horde race.

[Mehrunes]

@Mehrunes @ravenmoon .. when I see Nightborne, I see the Night Elves of the Ancient Kal'dorei empire returned all new and fancy lookin (kinda because it's not really improved it's a bit corrupted because of the nightwell). I don't see them as Kal'dorei, you never see Highborne or Nightborne refer to themselves as Kal'dorei, ever - it's like becoming Quel'dorei and now Shal'dorei is a status badge that is above just normal Kal'dorei.

Yeah, no. You're going in circles and it seems the current turn is "conflating races with irrelevant nonsense" again. Highborne are a social class. Nightborne are specifically called a new race. Did Night Elves get a status badge from Elune when the Well of Eternity changed their race earlier? And becoming Quel'dorei is nothing alike with becoming a Shal'dorei (if one could even become Quel'dorei, don't remember details about social mobility during Azshara's reign).

But more than that happened with the night elves of Suramar, it was more than just a status shift, because a racial transformation did happen. Try to look at it from the eyes of a nightborne. Your body has changed over time, but you don't feel or think of yourself any different, you are still the night elf you once were, in your customs, but the perpetual shroud of night as given your people to elevate themselves to a new level of Shal'dorei, no longer Kal'dorei or Quel'dorei, but Shal'dorei, a new race of the night elves. You are no longer a Night Elf, but a Nightborne Elf.

Wait, so now it's different according to you too? Your argument has the consistence of a jelly. That you dropped a thermonuclear weapon on to watch it spread in all directions and see what sticks to walls. And even the parts that stick are still shaky as fuck and slowly dribble down and melt. And from the eyes of the Nightborne, the latest confirmation of the change is from Thalyssra's mouth. Speaking of which, she complained about lack of sun in the same sentence as about lack of moonlight (or starlight, don't remember). She's basically half-Blood Elf.

Now what RAvenmoon is doing, and I don't disagree with him, is he is stating that Nightborne Elf is still an elf of the night or in short, a night elf (rather than write elf of the night all the time or ancient Night elf, or nocturnal elf, you can shorten that to night elf beacause that is what the term also means. It isn't exclusive to the name of the group called the Night ELves, it's also just short for elf of the night also descriptive. This is what you've both beeen arguing over, and it makes little difference to anything except perhaps egos? They will always be Nightborne elves, not Night Elves, and continue to be elves of the night or night elves, and they willl continue to be the Ancient Night Elves in new form. So you've basically being arguing over a technicality... which is taking nerdism to a new level.

And magically enough, the only two mentions of "Elves of the night" on entire WoWPedia are edits made by ravenmoon. What's even more magical is that they are unsourced. One on Nightborne page in a section about "Nightborne's night elveness" and another on a page he made about "Kaldorei term" which repeats his straw-man about Highborne (so does Nighborne's discussion page). I know one needs supreme English proficiency to start seeing the "descriptive night elf" (supposedly, I have my doubts if that's what you need to see such things), but chances are ravenmoon isn't the only person in the world with such mastery of the language and there would be, you know, sources or at least mentions by other editors. Unless you two provide a source for your "elves of night", "descriptive Night Elves" and, in ravenmoon's case at least, for Cenarius being human or Dwarf, this will remain your headcanon and Night Elf means Kaldorei race like it always did.

[Zulkhan]

Kaldorei? You disgrace a glorious past, hiding in trees and cloaking yourselves in false piety. You have grown as savage as the trolls that skulk about your forests.
Quel'dorei? You are peasants playing at nobility, all too willing to mingle with lesser races that dilute your bloodline. You are unworthy of the name high elves.
Sin'dorei? Of all the elves, I thought you might understand the choice I made to save my people. Instead, you ally with misfits and monsters.
Each of you has debased your proud lineage. Each of you has forgotten the ancient power that is our birthright.
But Suramar remembers! We are the Nightborne, last of the true elves. The rest of you are hollow echoes of our greatness.

Coming from someone who turned her people into the demons' pets is deliciously rich.

OT: I really don't give a fuck about elven lore but I'm not bothered either. In fact, I hope Blizzard will do both an abudant and good work with it (in other words, not like they did with the orcs where "abudance" was all they got) to greatly satisfy everyone in this huge expansion and have them sidelined for the time being without bearing much of a guilty conscience about it. I mean, they even got a fucking exclusive class.

This sole expansion is more of a love letter to elves than any previous expansion ever was to orcs (in fact, more than love letters they got grenades constantly blewing up on their faces) so I think no one could complain if after this one elves are going to get the fuck out.

This said, one thing I enjoy is all the petty squabbling between the various elf groups. Uniting into some great elven empire? According to the Kirin Tor the bitterness elves share make the Horde/Alliance conflict look like a joke. They do freaking PRANKS to one another. Way to show elves for what they truly are.

Enjoyable stuff indeed. Well, except for Vereesa. She proves once again which kind of filthy abomination her character is. All gentle and diplomatic with the Horde player when she needs support to retrieve her sister (and her attempts to stressing how the mission "wasn't personal" were an insult to everyone's intelligence) only to suddenly be so fixated with vengeance again that you can't even trust her to hold a flank. Even better, she suddenly has problems in sharing space with Kaldorei even though she fought alongside them just fine in Theramore.

This is not a character, is a convulted mess. What she's supposed to be, believe and think for real is a mystery. She's just what the story demands her to be.

I have a graduation in archaeology and a master in ancient history. Not even once I ever learned or read that that species is the same thing as race. What's your education again?

That's all your fault for missing the tumblr upgrade to your master.

lol.. maybe people will really like the elves after this, and the Elf hate might stop?

Those who hate elves will only get plenty of confirmation bias from this patch, which means "no". Interesting stuff, mind you. But elves are still elves.

Unless you don't mean the Nightborne, whose rebels are quite a chill group and all, but is not like we knew a thing about them before Legion and no one hated something they didn't know existed.

And magically enough, the only two mentions of "Elves of the night" on entire WoWPedia are edits made by ravenmoon.

"Nightborne's night elvesness"

I simply love how the Blood Elf - Nightborne relation bit had no more than 6 lines where the Night Elf - Nightborne discuss 2 different topics taking alone 1/6 of the whole Nightborne article. Or how the statement saying that Nightborne are the "old Night Elves" apparently prove their "night elvessness" ("yo remove the speculation mark, we have PROOF now") somehow forgetting that Blood Elves, High Elves and even fucking Naga were once Night Elves as well.

[Aucald]

oh yes please, I got a Minor Spam or something because I uploaded a picture and now I feel so bad about it

That is something you would want to discuss with the moderator in question, but do so as a private message to them and not in the forum or thread in question. I don't know the specifics of the particular picture, but you also want to ensure pictures you post to a thread aren't over-sized or exceedingly large in terms of data (e.g. not a TIFF, BMP, or other potentially large data file).

[Gurluas]

Night elf is both the name of a race, Kaldorei (Who tbh, should be called Star elves, not Night elves)
But they're nocturnal and use night imagery, so the Nightborne are definitely elves of the night.

[Aeula]

Nightborne are different to night elves in the same way that Thalassian elves are.

The nightwell changed them in a similar but different way to how the sunwell changed the Thalassian elves. They're no longer the same race.

[Enthralled]

And magically enough, the only two mentions of "Elves of the night" on entire WoWPedia are edits made by ravenmoon. What's even more magical is that they are unsourced. One on Nightborne page in a section about "Nightborne's night elveness" and another on a page he made about "Kaldorei term" which repeats his straw-man about Highborne (so does Nighborne's discussion page). I know one needs supreme English proficiency to start seeing the "descriptive night elf" (supposedly, I have my doubts if that's what you need to see such things), but chances are ravenmoon isn't the only person in the world with such mastery of the language and there would be, you know, sources or at least mentions by other editors. Unless you two provide a source for your "elves of night", "descriptive Night Elves" and, in ravenmoon's case at least, for Cenarius being human or Dwarf, this will remain your headcanon and Night Elf means Kaldorei race like it always did.

I noticed the funkiness going on with Wowpedia and I, too, thought that the wording sounded like ravenmoon.

The only source given from Blizzard about this at all is from that Suramar zone preview where game designer Steve Burke is quoted as saying:

Here we have the Nightborne, which is a new group of characters, but really it’s an ancient group. These are the old night elves, and they were the rulers of the world at one point in time.

*
*https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/news/20266226

To be honest, this is really vague. He mentions nothing about their obvious mutations due to the Nightwell, and he could easily be talking about their cultural traditions.

IMO, the only old elves in Suramar who are undisputably still night elves on a physiological level are the ones in Moon Guard Stronghold. Those guys are completely untouched by Elisande's shenanigans.

I am half tempted to send a tweet to the lore or story guys at Blizzard asking them to settle this once and for all.

[Romanthony]

One thing i really hate though with this elf Tension in the patch is Vereesa, She is all like "i hate horde i want them dead i want revenge F the horde i hope they all die" yet she is in the hunter orderhall, and if your horde she is like "I know your horde but the legion is a great threat i will follow your commands Huntmaster you have my Silver Convernt at your command"

[Friendlyimmolation]

One thing i really hate though with this elf Tension in the patch is Vereesa, She is all like "i hate horde i want them dead i want revenge F the horde i hope they all die" yet she is in the hunter orderhall, and if your horde she is like "I know your horde but the legion is a great threat i will follow your commands Huntmaster you have my Silver Convernt at your command"

Which brings to question, how many silver Covenant are even left. Because the question "is vereesa sane" was already answered as a negative a long time ago.

[Zulkhan]

One thing i really hate though with this elf Tension in the patch is Vereesa, She is all like "i hate horde i want them dead i want revenge F the horde i hope they all die" yet she is in the hunter orderhall, and if your horde she is like "I know your horde but the legion is a great threat i will follow your commands Huntmaster you have my Silver Convernt at your command"

I mean, she even leaves to you the custody of her precious family jewel (Thas'dorah) until the Legion isn't defeated.

(is not clear though how she's supposed to strip said jewel out of my hands if, by any chance, I don't give a fuck about her tantrums and keep the bow because, I don't know, I like to run faster)

Further fun note: during the quest to search for Alleria, Vereesa keeps bitching about something she clearly doesn't want to be revealed or discovered by the Inquisitor piercing through her soul. When you kill the sucker she thanks us and talk like some sort of catastrophe was avoided. Can't say if it's meant to be a thread connecting to some other plot point we don't know yet or Vereesa just being bitchy because that's what apparently comes natural out of her.

I'm really (not really) afraid it could be the second, because I can't really think about anything relevant coming out of this or anything barely hinting any sort of "dark secret" held by Vereesa.

[Rhlor]

I really love thalyssra the dusk lily!! the elves must be united!!




- - - Updated - - -

I'm growing sick of Belfs really quickly right now. They've been at the center and forefront for three expansions in a row now. It's enough. They had the most developement of any race in MoP, they were of high importance all throughout WoD despite the fact that they shouldn't have been and now they've returned to be all over the place and the most prominent Horde race once again.

How about we get some Goblins instead, maybe some Tauren, what about Trolls? Screw Belfs. They went from "Who?" to the center of the entire Horde story-

in Wod blood elves have only one zone and shared with the draenei, the orcs were all over the place. in Legion only they appear in Suramar. tauren have high mountain and forsaken stormheim.