Brexit: Petition for second EU referendum rejected

[Mayhem]

He did reference it, you not understanding the reference is your problem, not his or mine.

No, there´s quite a difference between claiming benefits and sending money to families abroad and claiming benefits for family abroad.

It wasn't an issue then, nothing is infallible. It is pretty dubious to claim that the rules were not set up to assist parents of children in the UK, considering that most of our rules are set up to assist people in the UK and the Government has never really been all that keen on giving money to foreigners abroad.

It wasn´t an issue means it didn´t happen or no one cared?

You can, but the EU didn't at the time.

The EU didn´t at the time?

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Wow! I always knew it. Friend that new system is called Brexit, I always thought you were in the closet, GJ outing yourself as a fellow Brexiteer.

I´m still not a british citizen.

Welcome to the club of sensible people!

Good one.

[Kalis]

No, there´s quite a difference between claiming benefits and sending money to families abroad and claiming benefits for family abroad.

Again no. People reference Japanese manga cartoons on these threads all the time, I have no idea what they are on about as I don't watch that stuff, yet I still acknowledge they are referencing them and don't dispute they are references.

I knew what they were talking about, which would only be possible if it was a reference I got, which in turn is only possible if they used a reference.

It wasn´t an issue means it didn´t happen or no one cared?

It wasn't on a scale that it became under Polish people, because it was only applicable to EU citizens and there weren't that many in the UK who came from poorer EU nations that would bother to do it, if any.

The EU didn´t at the time?

No, we were obliged to pay under European law.

[Mayhem]

Again no. People reference Japanese manga cartoons on these threads all the time, I have no idea what they are on about as I don't watch that stuff, yet I still acknowledge they are referencing them and don't dispute they are references.

I knew what they were talking about, which would only be possible if it was a reference I got, which in turn is only possible if they used a reference.

You assumed, there was no reference about benefit claims for families living abroad. Your assumption might be correct.

It wasn't on a scale that it became under Polish people, because it was only applicable to EU citizens and there weren't that many in the UK who came from poorer EU nations that would bother to do it, if any.

So no one cared. I don´t think it´s that big of a deal, really. We´re talking about ~20.000 families here. Compared to austrian numbers it´s impressive it even came up.

No, we were obliged to pay under European law.

As was every other EU member. For example we´re paying 19mio to german and 121k to british families.

[Kalis]

You assumed, there was no reference about benefit claims for families living abroad. Your assumption might be correct.

Again, you not recognising the reference is your problem.

So no one cared. I don´t think it´s that big of a deal, really. We´re talking about ~20.000 families here. Compared to austrian numbers it´s impressive it even came up.

To claim that we only cared about an issue once it became an issue is not really a worthwhile argument. Most people don't care about problems that aren't problems, they care when they become problems, especially when it is something that is so obviously being used for a purpose other than what it was intended for.

Why should British tax payers pay 10 of millions of pounds to people who live abroad? That is effectively foreign aid, we already have a budget for that and if Polish people want to live in Somalia in order to benefit from it, then be our guest.

As was every other EU member. For example we´re paying 19mio to german and 121k to british families.

Austria is paying €19m to Germans in Germany? Why?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Is that an estimation of yours?
You are wrong, it was leftist liberals butthurt millenials that also protested afterwards, vs normal decent people that turned to right wing.

Of course they didn't. UKIP and Leave pushed populist buttons that appealed to voters on both the left and the right.

The vast numbers of working class Labour voters in the north east who voted Leave did so out of no love for the Tories.

This was not a straight forward left / right split.

You think a disillusioned Labour voter is suddenly going to about turn and join sides, politically, with e.g., Norman Tebbit? "Actually yes, I think the working time directive should be abolished so we can all work for longer, but on the same crappy pay, for the exclusive benefit of our employers."

Nationalism is not the sole preserve of the left or the right.

[Mayhem]

Again, you not recognising the reference is your problem.

Me not recognising a reference that was worded poorly is my fault, foremost in the context of 2 million poles? Again, claiming benefits and sending money to families abroad is not the same as recieving benefits because of children living abroad. The former could mean they send money to their relatives, parents whatever family members, the later is specific.

To claim that we only cared about an issue once it became an issue is not really a worthwhile argument. Most people don't care about problems that aren't problems, they care when they become problems, especially when it is something that is so obviously being used for a purpose other than what it was intended for.

Why should British tax payers pay 10 of millions of pounds to people who live abroad? That is effectively foreign aid, we already have a budget for that and if Polish people want to live in Somalia in order to benefit from it, then be our guest.

It became an issue only because politics wanted to score points with their voters.

Austria is paying €19m to Germans in Germany? Why?

Because they work here. People who work in austria recieve certain benefits, regardless of where their children live. Abuse of this system should be stopped, but denying it alltogether seems rather pointless to me. From a taxpayer point of view it´s probably even cheaper than educating their children in austria.

[Kalis]

Me not recognising a reference that was worded poorly is my fault, foremost in the context of 2 million poles? Again, claiming benefits and sending money to families abroad is not the same as recieving benefits because of children living abroad. The former could mean they send money to their relatives, parents whatever family members, the later is specific.

It was an obvious reference to anyone familiar with British news from the last few years. Can you guess why you didn't get it?

It became an issue only because politics wanted to score points with their voters.

Or people weren't happy that tens of millions of pounds was being sent out of the country due to a loophole.

Because they work here. People who work in austria recieve certain benefits, regardless of where their children live. Abuse of this system should be stopped, but denying it alltogether seems rather pointless to me. From a taxpayer point of view it´s probably even cheaper than educating their children in austria.

How is that similar to British tax payers paying money for children in a foreign country? It is not my duty to subsidise some little brat in Krakow, that is for the Polish people to do.

[Mayhem]

It was an obvious reference to anyone familiar with British news from the last few years. Can you guess why you didn't get it?

Are brits incapable of speaking their mind in general or is this a problem with just some here on this forum? Everyone else would be ridiculed by you for using the number 2 million poles claiming benefits and sending money to their families, but when it´s a brit talking it´s an obvious reference to ~13000 poles getting child benefits for children living abroad.

Or people weren't happy that tens of millions of pounds was being sent out of the country due to a loophole.

Except it´s not a loophole. Some british citizens benefit from this as well.

How is that similar to British tax payers paying money for children in a foreign country? It is not my duty to subsidise some little brat in Krakow, that is for the Polish people to do.

How is it similar when other countries do the exact same thing? Yeah, how can that possibly be similar. So then foreign workers in britain should pay less in taxes if their children live abroad?

[Kalis]

Are brits incapable of speaking their mind in general or is this a problem with just some here on this forum? Everyone else would be ridiculed by you for using the number 2 million poles claiming benefits and sending money to their families, but when it´s a brit talking it´s an obvious reference to ~13000 poles getting child benefits for children living abroad.

I don't think FurryFowWolf needs my ridicule, they do a perfectly good job of that on their own.

Except it´s not a loophole. Some british citizens benefit from this as well.

It is not what child benefit was intended for, so it is a loophole. The Treasury admitted their hands were tied due to European law.

How is it similar when other countries do the exact same thing? Yeah, how can that possibly be similar. So then foreign workers in britain should pay less in taxes if their children live abroad?

Except your example was not the exact same thing, was it? You said €19m was paid to Germans by Austrians, but those Germans are in Austria, in order for it to be similar they would need to be in Germany. That is kind of the point, we were paying money to children in a foreign country, not in ours.

[Kallisto]

When FurryFoxWolf said, "...why you think 2 million poles came to UK they claim benefits and send the money back to there familys in warsaw...", once their eyes had stopped bleeding from the abuse of English displayed, just about every adult in Britain would know what they were referring to, even though he appears to have plucked the figure of 2 million Poles from out of his arse.

Yes the lie that somehow people from Poland were able to come over to the UK. Not work a day in their life, claim benefits and send them back to Warsaw.

Or the whole bull shit non issue of Polish parents working and getting what every other parent is entitled to and doing with it as they see fit like many other parents do.

Neither of which are issues in the mind of the sane.

[Mayhem]

It is not what child benefit was intended for, so it is a loophole. The Treasury admitted their hands were tied due to European law.

Not really, they too pay into this system, why shouldn´t they also benefit from it?

Except your example was not the exact same thing, was it? You said €19m was paid to Germans by Austrians, but those Germans are in Austria, in order for it to be similar they would need to be in Germany. That is kind of the point, we were paying money to children in a foreign country, not in ours.

No, i said they work in austria, but their families are in germany, it´s the exact same thing, 19 mio to germany, 121k to the UK, 56 mio to hungary another 19 mio to poland ... all in all 200 mio to other EU member states. Hence why i said i´m impressed your 36 mio made news.

So should foreign workers pay less in taxes then if their children live abroad?

[Deleted]

So the 14 eastern European States said that they wont accept any deal with the UK without free movement like it is now.

Have fun persuading ALL of them. Thats close to impossible. But with free movement the whole Brexit is pointless...

[Huehuecoyotl]

So the 14 eastern European States said that they wont accept any deal with the UK without free movement like it is now.

Have fun persuading ALL of them. Thats close to impossible. But with free movement the whole Brexit is pointless...

Nope, we will leave, go back to WTO deal with the EU, and live in a magical world where all our problems are solved because we have "got back control of our country". Apparently.

That's what you will be told by the Brexit mob on this thread anyway. Don't bother explaining to them how the UK economy would be destroyed by a combination of all the financial services leaving and the loss of cheap imported labour. They believe they have waved some kind of wand by voting for Brexit, and it's up to the politicians to make it happen.

Even funnier is the fact you could get 100 of the Brexit crowd in a room and ask them to explain what they voted for, and you would get 100 different answers. The politicians still have no clear idea what it means all these months later, so that shouldn't be that much of a surprise. "Brexit means Brexit" appears to be the go-to answer for May. She might as well say "unicorns mean unicorns".

[Kalis]

Not really, they too pay into this system, why shouldn´t they also benefit from it?

Because that is not what it was intended for? Our system is intended to help people in the UK, if money is being obtained for people that have never even set foot inside the UK then it is being misused. That is not a difficult concept to grasp, yet here you are spectacularly failing to grasp it.

No, i said they work in austria, but their families are in germany, it´s the exact same thing, 19 mio to germany, 121k to the UK, 56 mio to hungary another 19 mio to poland ... all in all 200 mio to other EU member states. Hence why i said i´m impressed your 36 mio made news.

So should foreign workers pay less in taxes then if their children live abroad?

Why is it up to British tax payers to subsidise the Polish benefits system? That is exploiting a loophole, you may well be fine with that in Austria, but don't expect everyone else to be.

[Deleted]

So the 14 eastern European States said that they wont accept any deal with the UK without free movement like it is now.

Have fun persuading ALL of them. Thats close to impossible. But with free movement the whole Brexit is pointless...

eastern europe is poor as fuck like they have anything to offer us apart from giving rich companys free labour, we can make more money outside the EU with the commonwealth countries than all these former communist countries who dnt offer us shit

[ranzino]

eastern europe is poor as fuck like they have anything to offer us apart from giving rich companys free labour, we can make more money outside the EU with the commonwealth countries than all these former communist countries who dnt offer us shit

Maybe more with commonwealth than eastern EU, but still a kick in your butt to trade on WTO terms.
And no free movement also means EU can poke your residents on the continent the same way you do.

[Deleted]

Maybe more with commonwealth than eastern EU, but still a kick in your butt to trade on WTO terms.
And no free movement also means EU can poke your residents on the continent the same way you do.

even if we did use WTO terms we wouldnt have to accept all the people from EU countries under there free movement of people, why do you think all the rich people and businesses wanted to remain cos they got cheap labour from eastern europe. im sick of telling the remoaners the same thing over and over and they think the EU is gonna last forever it wont even last until 2035 its a breaking point now, the remoaners are just deluded and are basically enraged cos they lost the referendum suck it up, nigel farage is a national hero like winston churchill

[Kalis]

nigel farage is a national hero like winston churchill

Gallipoli-era Winston Churchill perhaps.

[dribbles]

Nope, we will leave, go back to WTO deal with the EU, and live in a magical world where all our problems are solved because we have "got back control of our country". Apparently.

Exactly right. It gets quite boring as day by day great news, purely as a result of the Brexit vote, keeps coming over and over again. For example just this weekend Honda unveils its new Global supercentre in Swindon with a further 1/4 bn euro of new investment in Boom Brexit Britain.

From http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/...veils-new-car/

"The Swindon plant is Honda’s flagship production facility in Europe, employing 3,600 people, and plays a key role in Honda’s global manufacturing network.
The new Civic hatchback is set to be exported to more than 70 countries around the world, including European markets, North America and Canada."


Would never have happened if we'd have stuck with that stagnating cesspit of red tape infested European Union.

[Shadowmelded]

nigel farage is a national hero like winston churchill