Payday loans

[the game]

But its still an option, people destroy their lives and others every day with alcohol, and other drugs, legal or not.

You're not gonna get through to them. It's clearly decided that it's always everyone elses fault. Nobody is ever responsible for their own fate.

[NineSpine]

You're not gonna get through to them. It's clearly decided that it's always everyone elses fault. Nobody is ever responsible for their own fate.

The structure of our economy is a social decision, not an individual decision. These payday loan companies are outwardly deceptive and fraudulent, and they use friendly banking laws that they pay politicians to enact for them. This is a corrupt industry preying on people. How about if we are going to talk about personal responsibility, we concern ourselves with the people who are causing damage to other people, not the ones on the receiving end. I'll never understand why so many people love to cry personal responsibility towards victims, but don't have dick to say about predators.

[ezgeze]

You confuse "personal freedom" and "being forced to live in the type of economy I prefer". It is not freedom to be born into poverty and then have to scrape by to appease an upper class that steals from you constantly, whether explicitly or through scams and fraud.

Oh please, get off this bullshit notion where the upper class somehow steals from the poor. In the case of payday loans, nobody is putting a gun to the head of a person and forcing them to take a loan out. It is a personal decision that benefits both parties. Pease seek basic education as to how the market works. The economy is not a zero sum game.

[NineSpine]

Oh please, get off this bullshit notion where the upper class somehow steals from the poor. In the case of payday loans, nobody is putting a gun to the head of a person and forcing them to take a loan out. It is a personal decision. Pease seek basic education as to how the market works. The economy is not a zero sum game.

If your choice is eat or take a payday loan, you don't really have a choice.

It's a fact that the upper class steals from everyone else. Most theft in the country is wage theft. That's a fact.

[araine]

Interest rates tend to be higher the lower your credit is, you can assume that no credit check means high interest loans. Add in the fact a lot of there loans get written off then you have to factor those who do pay have to cover the loses. Now are these cost reasonable given those facts?

No they are not reasonable they are usury plain and simple.

And in some cases it really was better in the past. dating back to the laws of 1734 in Sweden interest rates above 6% was considered usury and a criminal act.

But sadly most of these rules got removed and as a result we see interest rates that are astronomical and clearly takes the form of usury

[Gamdwelf]

You're not gonna get through to them. It's clearly decided that it's always everyone elses fault. Nobody is ever responsible for their own fate.

#mybody my choice no consequences.

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This often isn't an option though. That's the problem. People need these loans to get by.

I would argue that really aren't needed, but the option is there you are the one arguing to take away that option.

[NineSpine]

#mybody my choice no consequences.

That's is YOUR attitude towards wealthy predators.

[Gamdwelf]

If your choice is eat or take a payday loan, you don't really have a choice.

It's a fact that the upper class steals from everyone else. Most theft in the country is wage theft. That's a fact.

You are starting with a false assumpiton, nobody has to choose between eating and taking a pay day loan.

[NineSpine]

#mybody my choice no consequences.

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I would argue that really aren't needed, but the option is there you are the one arguing to take away that option.

im arguing to regulate that option so it isn't exploitative. Exploitation isn't good for society just because people are consenting to it In Lieu of skipping meals or missing bills.

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You are starting with a false assumpiton, nobody has to choose between eating and taking a pay day loan.

Except we have numbers so we know you are full of shy and just assuming something can't be true of it conflicts with your ideology:
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/multimed...ing-in-america

Do you know how to tell if someone is a blind ideologue? They assume things are or are not true based on how it meshes with their ideology, instead of looking at the facts.

[Gamdwelf]

im arguing to regulate that option so it isn't exploitative. Exploitation isn't good for society just because people are consenting to it In Lieu of skipping meals or missing bills.

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Except we have numbers so we know you are full of shy and just assuming something can't be true of it conflicts with your ideology:
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/multimed...ing-in-america

Do you know how to tell if someone is a blind ideologue? They assume things are or are not true based on how it meshes with their ideology, instead of looking at the facts.

Food Banks, churches, other non-profits. There are so many ways not to go hungry that are not pay day loans.

[Spectral]

It's a fact that the upper class steals from everyone else.

Classes don't steal things, individuals or organized groups of individuals do. It's trivially easy to find upper class individuals that more than handle their civic responsibility. Blaming these people for the misdeeds of people that share an income bracket with them is just classism.

[araine]

im arguing to regulate that option so it isn't exploitative. Exploitation isn't good for society just because people are consenting to it In Lieu of skipping meals or missing bills.

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Except we have numbers so we know you are full of shy and just assuming something can't be true of it conflicts with your ideology:
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/multimed...ing-in-america

Do you know how to tell if someone is a blind ideologue? They assume things are or are not true based on how it meshes with their ideology, instead of looking at the facts.

kinda like how the right wingers say how great the paul ryan taxcut plan will be for everyone, when fact is 99.6% of all the money in that plan will go to the top 1% of earners really the other 99% of the population will have to fight over 0.4% of all the money really thats how the class warfare is nowadays from the far right. yet we have idiots voting for these plans that will never get more that fighting for the 0.4%.

[NineSpine]

Classes don't steal things, individuals or organized groups of individuals do. It's trivially easy to find upper class individuals that more than handle their civic responsibility. Blaming these people for the misdeeds of people that share an income bracket with them is just classism.

That depends on how the problem manifests itself. If one class gets punished for theft and another does not, it s explicitly a class issue.

[Spectral]

dating back to the laws of 1734 in Sweden interest rates above 6% was considered usury and a criminal act.

Which, of course, would make it effectively impossible for high-risk individuals to ever get any loans at all. See this post for an explanation.

[araine]

Classes don't steal things, individuals or organized groups of individuals do. It's trivially easy to find upper class individuals that more than handle their civic responsibility. Blaming these people for the misdeeds of people that share an income bracket with them is just classism.

everyone at the top brackets steal from those below it is a fact of life just as the sun goes up in the east every morning. sure it isnt labeled theft but when you have poverty wages etc from these company owners etc it is effectively theft taking place.

[Spectral]

That depends on how the problem manifests itself. If one class gets punished for theft and another does not, it s explicitly a class issue.

Saying, "the upper class steals" is still just plain wrong, even if one accepts that large amounts of theft are committed by individuals in that class. It's akin to saying, "blacks murder" after looking at murder rates.

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everyone at the top brackets steal from those below it is a fact of life just as the sun goes up in the east every morning. sure it isnt labeled theft but when you have poverty wages etc from these company owners etc it is effectively theft taking place.

Two people agree on a transaction and the one paying for labor is now a thief in your mind, even if they fulfill their contract. This is a pretty infantile way of looking at the world.

[araine]

Which, of course, would make it effectively impossible for high-risk individuals to ever get any loans at all. See this post for an explanation.

usury should be illegal and 6% is a very very high interest rate in todays finance climate where banks etc have NEGATIVE interest rates in place you are right we probably need to adjust that 6% figure down a notch or two. But we all know Wall Street will nto like that since they just like easy money from the poor and never having to actually do an honest days work for the money.

[NineSpine]

Food Banks, churches, other non-profits. There are so many ways not to go hungry that are not pay day loans.

You know fuck-all about these peoples situations, so spare me the bogus ignorant lectures about your assumptions for how poor people get by. I've been poor, genuinely poor, and that's how I spent most of my life. This idea that you just roll into a food bank or a church and eat all your meals is some of the dumbest shit you could possibly say. You don't have time to meet meal schedules when you are working 60 hours a week to afford your one room dump apartment. It's expensive to be poor, and while it's good fun for people with money to make all those dumbshit assumptions about what being poor is like, it's just pathetic paternalistic bulkshit.

[Spectral]

im arguing to regulate that option so it isn't exploitative. Exploitation isn't good for society just because people are consenting to it In Lieu of skipping meals or missing bills.

Do you have any concerns that tight restrictions on lending rates will adversely impact credit available to high-risk borrowers?

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usury should be illegal and 6% is a very very high interest rate in todays finance climate where banks etc have NEGATIVE interest rates in place you are right we probably need to adjust that 6% figure down a notch or two. But we all know Wall Street will nto like that since they just like easy money from the poor and never having to actually do an honest days work for the money.

If you truly believe this, you should strongly consider making private loans at these rates to high-risk borrowers. You'll make a fortune and do a public service.

[NineSpine]

Saying, "the upper class steals" is still just plain wrong, even if one accepts that large amounts of theft are committed by individuals in that class. It's akin to saying, "blacks murder" after looking at murder rates.

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Two people agree on a transaction and the one paying for labor is now a thief in your mind, even if they fulfill their contract. This is a pretty infantile way of looking at the world.

Most theft occurs from the upper class towards other classes. That's a statistical fact. It's also a statistical fact that they are the least likely to get punished for it.