Payday loans

[araine]

Saying, "the upper class steals" is still just plain wrong, even if one accepts that large amounts of theft are committed by individuals in that class. It's akin to saying, "blacks murder" after looking at murder rates.

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Two people agree on a transaction and the one paying for labor is now a thief in your mind, even if they fulfill their contract. This is a pretty infantile way of looking at the world.

Agree to is a fancy sh1t word of being forced to is more correct assumption since unions etc are not powerful enough in the USA to protect workers rights, really if i hold a gun to your head and say give me 1000 dollars and we "agree" to that transaction as well sure you arent facing the gun in the work place but really do you have a choice when unions are weak and cant protect your rights as a worker. the effect is the same as them holding a gun to you it is that level of "agreement" in place when push comes to shove.

But it sure is gullible to see the far right thinking it is a free transaction nonsense, just shows how little they actually understands of the real world out there.

[Spectral]

Most theft occurs from the upper class towards other classes. That's a statistical fact. It's also a statistical fact that they are the least likely to get punished for it.

This still doesn't translate to "the upper class steals". The upper class isn't an individual or organized collection that has agency. It's also an ill-defined term that's just being used for othering those evil richers, but whatever.

[NineSpine]

Do you have any concerns that tight restrictions on lending rates will adversely impact credit available to high-risk borrowers?

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If you truly believe this, you should strongly consider making private loans at these rates to high-risk borrowers. You'll make a fortune and do a public service.

You don't know what kind of restrictions I am talking about so your implication that by default the restrictions would be "tight" is asinine.

I think we should allow the post office to handle basic banking transactions to mitigate the need for these types of businesses. To the extent that they are still used, they should be subject to normal laws, which they often aren't because they have the government in their pockets. You are defending one of the most corrupt crony capitalist industries in the country. This is an industry explicitly based on buying politicians to make sure they can do what they doz

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This still doesn't translate to "the upper class steals". The upper class isn't an individual or organized collection that has agency. It's also an ill-defined term that's just being used for othering those evil richers, but whatever.

The fact that it clearly hurts your precious feelings doesn't make it not a fact. Dry up your tears and come deal with reality.

[araine]

Most theft occurs from the upper class towards other classes. That's a statistical fact. It's also a statistical fact that they are the least likely to get punished for it.

They never get punished for it. Remember the saying Svea Rikes Lag always got labeled Svea Rikas Lag. meaning the laws are ultimately there to protect the wealthy at all cost.

[Spectral]

Agree to is a fancy sh1t word of being forced to is more correct assumption since unions etc are not powerful enough in the USA to protect workers rights, really if i hold a gun to your head and say give me 1000 dollars and we "agree" to that transaction as well sure you arent facing the gun in the work place but really do you have a choice when unions are weak and cant protect your rights as a worker. the effect is the same as them holding a gun to you it is that level of "agreement" in place when push comes to shove.

There's no legitimate reason to believe that employment isn't a voluntary transaction. There are many employers and they mostly don't collude, so the just-so story of there being no employee leverage is flatly wrong.

But it sure is gullible to see the far right thinking it is a free transaction nonsense, just shows how little they actually understands of the real world out there.

I'm not far right at all and the notion that you have more of an understanding of the "real world" is predicated on absolutely no evidence.

[NineSpine]

There's no legitimate reason to believe that employment isn't a voluntary transaction. There are many employers and they mostly don't collude, so the just-so story of there being no employee leverage is flatly wrong.


I'm not far right at all and the notion that you have more of an understanding of the "real world" is predicated on absolutely no evidence.

The monopsony effect on the low wage employment market is well documented and considered very much part of mainstream economics. Employers almost always hold more leverage, because an employee very rarely has less to lose than the employer by the relationship ending.

[Spectral]

You don't know what kind of restrictions I am talking about so your implication that by default the restrictions would be "tight" is asinine.

I think we should allow the post office to handle basic banking transactions to mitigate the need for these types of businesses. To the extent that they are still used, they should be subject to normal laws, which they often aren't because they have the government in their pockets. You are defending one of the most corrupt crony capitalist industries in the country. This is an industry explicitly based on buying politicians to make sure they can do what they doz

We're finally getting somewhere to some extent. In this proposed policy, would you desire for the USPS to be able to act as a lender or simply to cash checks?

The fact that it clearly hurts your precious feelings doesn't make it not a fact. Dry up your tears and come deal with reality.

This isn't a real response at all. Don't get all emotional there friend!

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The monopsony effect on the low wage employment market is well documented and considered very much part of mainstream economics. Employers almost always hold more leverage, because an employee very rarely has less to lose than the employer by the relationship ending.

Araine's ridiculous post painted employment as being akin to being held hostage with a gun. It takes a hell of a leap to get from "has less leverage than an employer" to a literal hostage situation.

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Anyway, I have to go to lunch. I'm interested in the USPS proposal; I feel like I've heard it tossed around before, but I don't know much about the idea.

[NineSpine]

We're finally getting somewhere to some extent. In this proposed policy, would you desire for the USPS to be able to act as a lender or simply to cash checks?

This isn't a real response at all. Don't get all emotion there friend!

I don't need to entertain the notion that he upper class is an arbitrary group that doesn't exist, especially when the argument is that it's offensive and nothing more.

The USPS would just do basic things like cash checks. This would mitigate some of the issue, not all.

[Deleted]

I misread the title as Paypal loans.. and was all like wait, theyre giving out loans now?

But nah, these short term loans are disgusting and should be illegal. These guys are actually counting on people not able to pay on time, so they keep the interests rolling and a $100 loan could easily become 600k dept.

[Pua]

These payday loan places should be outlawed.

Unfortunately, they're often providing a necessary service for people whose monthly wage simply doesn't stretch to the end of the month.

The saddest part is that once you're into the position where you're using payday loans, the interest means that there's next to no escape from them unless you can come up with a real difference-maker one month... Which those who rely on these services never manage to get.

It's no coincidence that run-down areas of low employment are the areas that house payday loan companies, gold-buyers and pawn shops; they're simply never found in middle class, affluent areas or above.

The saddest part, of course, is that normal banks don't touch high-risk people with interest rates that are reasonable. The bigger risk you are, the higher risk and rate, and the more likely you are to default - which helps to drive up rates. Equally tragic is that the companies offering sky-high rates can make a (not unreasonable) argument that, because they're taking all the risk, the high rates are justified.

In my job, a lot of my young staff have had money troubles that, ultimately, spiraled out of control through a little naivety that these sharks prey on. Low wages ultimately lead to an inability to take any kind of financial hit, and that first loan (of any kind) puts them into a situation that they're likely to take years moving out of.

All it takes is one broken car that you rely on for work, and you can end up in debt for the next decade.

To me, it's really sad and a horrid indictment of an economy that promotes such financial "services".

[araine]

Unfortunately, they're often providing a necessary service for people whose monthly wage simply doesn't stretch to the end of the month.

The saddest part is that once you're into the position where you're using payday loans, the interest means that there's next to no escape from them unless you can come up with a real difference-maker one month... Which those who rely on these services never manage to get.

It's no coincidence that run-down areas of low employment are the areas that house payday loan companies, gold-buyers and pawn shops; they're simply never found in middle class, affluent areas or above.

The saddest part, of course, is that normal banks don't touch high-risk people with interest rates that are reasonable. The bigger risk you are, the higher risk and rate, and the more likely you are to default - which helps to drive up rates. Equally tragic is that the companies offering sky-high rates can make a (not unreasonable) argument that, because they're taking all the risk, the high rates are justified.

In my job, a lot of my young staff have had money troubles that, ultimately, spiraled out of control through a little naivety that these sharks prey on. Low wages ultimately lead to an inability to take any kind of financial hit, and that first loan (of any kind) puts them into a situation that they're likely to take years moving out of.

All it takes is one broken car that you rely on for work, and you can end up in debt for the next decade.

To me, it's really sad and a horrid indictment of an economy that promotes such financial "services".

Very thin difference between these "legal" services and mafia loans. it is basically the mafia running the show when it comes to these so called services. that it is legal doesnt change the fact that it is basically organized crime we are watching.

[TirielWoW]

Oh I can get a credit card.

$35 a year payment
22% APR
And I have to deposit money in there for the credit line.


So I'll be paying $35 for a glorified debit card.

I get that some people are well off , but all of us are not. And you may not feel like you are well off, but if you are not living paycheck to paycheck and have money saved up for emergencies ... To the poor, you are very well off.

If this is your only option for a credit card, I have a suggestion. Go to your bank, if you have one, and speak to them about setting up a secured line of credit. You still get a card, and you still have to put money into an account to provide your funds, but the rates are much lower and there shouldn't be an annual fee. It will also build your credit rapidly, because on your credit report it will display as a regular revolving line of credit - albeit with a small limit.

You may believe it's impossible for you to get anything of worth out of a bank, but they are actually required by law to devote a certain amount of resources towards helping people who live in underprivileged areas. It's worth at least looking into, because even if they can't get you set up with a line of credit, a decent bank will start working to help improve your credit score and find workable solutions to your problems.

[NineSpine]

If this is your only option for a credit card, I have a suggestion. Go to your bank, if you have one, and speak to them about setting up a secured line of credit. You still get a card, and you still have to put money into an account to provide your funds, but the rates are much lower and there shouldn't be an annual fee. It will also build your credit rapidly, because on your credit report it will display as a regular revolving line of credit - albeit with a small limit.

You may believe it's impossible for you to get anything of worth out of a bank, but they are actually required by law to devote a certain amount of resources towards helping people who live in underprivileged areas. It's worth at least looking into, because even if they can't get you set up with a line of credit, a decent bank will start working to help improve your credit score and find workable solutions to your problems.

You aren't getting it. A lot of people don't qualify for this things or even have the means to manage them. Even getting to a bank during the hours they are open is problematic for people.

[TirielWoW]

You aren't getting it. A lot of people don't qualify for this things or even have the means to manage them. Even getting to a bank during the hours they are open is problematic for people.

The bankers at my bank will make after hours appointments for people, and actually go to job sites to conduct educational seminars to teach people how to handle these things. That's what banks are supposed to do, by law. They're supposed to be educating people so that they can get a hold on their finances. A personal banker is just that - someone you can call for advice and help if you're having trouble.

And I do get it. I live paycheck to paycheck. I have my whole life. Don't think I don't get it.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I have used payday loans for times I have needed to pay a dentist or for something that is urgent.

I work in a Seasonal Casual job & sometimes its really busy & I work 40 plus hours and get paid very well.

In the off season, I sometimes can only work 20 Hours. And getting by can be a bit difficult.
So a small under $500 payday loan is handy, when I know I can pay it off over a period of a month.

As long as you a re capable of paying them off, then I do not have an issue with Payday loans.

In fact , a Payday loan can be a lifesaver.

So can a Mafia backed loan shark... and you'll pay less interest.

[Tennis]

Payday loans are terrible, terrible places. I work for a bank, and sometimes people will come in and deposit checks that are obviously from one of these places. If I catch it, I'll sometimes talk to them and try to get them to see a banker to see if we can help them instead, because at least our rates are better and the payments much more reasonable.

Oh please. The big banks aren't much better either. I wouldn't be beating my chest about this.

[NineSpine]

The bankers at my bank will make after hours appointments for people, and actually go to job sites to conduct educational seminars to teach people how to handle these things. That's what banks are supposed to do, by law. They're supposed to be educating people so that they can get a hold on their finances. A personal banker is just that - someone you can call for advice and help if you're having trouble.

And I do get it. I live paycheck to paycheck. I have my whole life. Don't think I don't get it.

No, I don't think you get it. You are talking about people that rarely even own the transportation necessary to go to the bank. The working class very often thinks they live in abject poverty, but they don't.

[Deleted]

This is such a typically american thing,.. which is why I never heard of it till john oliver did his show on it (he's quickly becoming the new morgan freeman of explaining stuffs).. anyway,.. seemned super messed up!

heres a link if any1 wants to see.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The structure of our economy is a social decision, not an individual decision. These payday loan companies are outwardly deceptive and fraudulent, and they use friendly banking laws that they pay politicians to enact for them. This is a corrupt industry preying on people. How about if we are going to talk about personal responsibility, we concern ourselves with the people who are causing damage to other people, not the ones on the receiving end. I'll never understand why so many people love to cry personal responsibility towards victims, but don't have dick to say about predators.

A lot of these people who blame these victims and cry "personal responsibility" as some kind of scapegoat are often the first ones to cry foul when something befalls them. They're mostly mid to far right, hardly any moderates, and will outwardly blame everyone else anytime something bad happens to them, whether it's immigrants, liberals or what have you. The one group they almost never blame is the elite. They worship them too much to ever blame them.

[TirielWoW]

No, I don't think you get it. You are talking about people that rarely even own the transportation necessary to go to the bank. The working class very often thinks they live in abject poverty, but they don't.

This is why banks are required, again, by law, to have branches in underserved areas. Because people often don't have transportation. If they don't comply, they can have their services shut down.

Oh please. The big banks aren't much better either. I wouldn't be beating my chest about this.

I wasn't talking about the big banks. Do you have any idea how many banks there are? In my city alone, there are dozens of different banks. And that's not counting Credit Unions, of which we have a plethora.