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  1. #561
    Mechagnome Thalassian Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Further fun note: during the quest to search for Alleria, Vereesa keeps bitching about something she clearly doesn't want to be revealed or discovered by the Inquisitor piercing through her soul. When you kill the sucker she thanks us and talk like some sort of catastrophe was avoided. Can't say if it's meant to be a thread connecting to some other plot point we don't know yet or Vereesa just being bitchy because that's what apparently comes natural out of her.

    I'm really (not really) afraid it could be the second, because I can't really think about anything relevant coming out of this or anything barely hinting any sort of "dark secret" held by Vereesa.
    It's obviously the Inquisitor potentially revealing that she was thinking about Halduron every time she lay with Rhonin, of course. That or he would discover that she considered drowning her filthy mud-blood children in a barrel when she first saw them.

  2. #562
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    I really love thalyssra the dusk lily!! the elves must be united!!


    Tyrande looks quite small. She's a Night Elf, she should be the tallest. Well, about equal to Thalyssra.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Tyrande looks quite small. She's a Night Elf, she should be the tallest. Well, about equal to Thalyssra.
    is the perspective

  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    I really love thalyssra the dusk lily!! the elves must be united!!


    Tyrande looks kind of short


    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    in Wod blood elves have only one zone and shared with the draenei, the orcs were all over the place. in Legion only they appear in Suramar. tauren have high mountain and forsaken stormheim.
    you know what is the problem for those people, when the game turns the attention on elves they always steal the show because elves have interesting story while when we have orc expantion we are like, meh whatever

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Diannak View Post
    Tyrande looks kind of short




    you know what is the problem for those people, when the game turns the attention on elves they always steal the show because elves have interesting story while when we have orc expantion we are like, meh whatever
    orcs had 2 expansions. one zone of blood elf with other elves and people get mad and say there not tauren (which as really mean is that no orcs) when the tauren have High Mountain. Forsaken are in Storheim

  6. #566
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diannak View Post
    Tyrande looks kind of short
    That's what I thought too. And she's wearing heels...
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurluas View Post
    Night elf is both the name of a race, Kaldorei (Who tbh, should be called Star elves, not Night elves)
    But they're nocturnal and use night imagery, so the Nightborne are definitely elves of the night.
    yes, and I also think Star elves would have been better. But I think these people here are making it more confusing than it is, trying to impose what they want rather than what they are shown. WoW doesn't have dark elves, it just has night elves, and it seems there are several versions of them, the latest addition being the nightborne elves.

    Maybe it's like this here because these fans get very attached to their tropes and their races and factions either. Loving and hating and digging into each other, very rudely sometimes I've noticed. I just ignore mostly.

    it makes sense that the night elves are star and moon focused as you see these bodies in the night, and off course, any times spent amongst the nightborne in Suramar or the night elves and you see that heaven bound celestial focus.
    Last edited by Beloren; 2016-09-18 at 04:49 PM.

  8. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    orcs had 2 expansions. one zone of blood elf with other elves and people get mad and say there not tauren (which as really mean is that no orcs) when the tauren have High Mountain. Forsaken are in Storheim
    No I believe that people have grown bored of orcs and the few fans that still love them are making a racket about it

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    yes, and I also think Star elves would have been better.
    I think none of them should have been called Night Elves, or at least the original name should have just been elves... The Dorei?


    The current Night Elves should be more Moonish, Moon Elves or Luna'Dorei. -Moonwells

    The Blood Elves and High Elves are more Sun Elves and get their appropriate name. -Sunwell

    The Nightborne spend more time studying the stars and have the Night Well, so they should be called Star Elves or Nightborne fits. -Nightwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    orcs had 2 expansions. one zone of blood elf with other elves and people get mad and say there not tauren (which as really mean is that no orcs) when the tauren have High Mountain. Forsaken are in Storheim
    As someone who mained an Orc since Vanilla, I've never felt as an Orc, I had my time in the spotlight. People complain about SoO and WoD being all about Orcs, but it didn't do anything for Orc players. I didn't enjoy killing Orcs in Siege of Orgrimmar, I didn't enjoy killing Orcs throughout an entire Expansion either.

    I never got that neutral Orc faction that both Alliance and Horde had to work together with to defeat a baddy. Examples would be Argent Crusade(Heavily Human) Cenarion Circle in Firelands(Heavily Night Elves), Isle of Thunder which was Blood Elves/Humans, to name the most prominent ones. Not until WoD when we got the Frostwolves, but we were killing Orcs the entire time which easily cancelled it out. And it was only for Horde.

    It doesn't bother me much though, the game was made on the fact that Orcs are bad, Humans are good. I readily enjoy any content that Blood Elves get or Forsaken, though they never get to be the heroes like Humans or Night Elves...

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    And magically enough, the only two mentions of "Elves of the night" on entire WoWPedia are edits made by ravenmoon. What's even more magical is that they are unsourced. One on Nightborne page in a section about "Nightborne's night elveness" and another on a page he made about "Kaldorei term" which repeats his straw-man about Highborne (so does Nighborne's discussion page). I know one needs supreme English proficiency to start seeing the "descriptive night elf" (supposedly, I have my doubts if that's what you need to see such things), but chances are ravenmoon isn't the only person in the world with such mastery of the language and there would be, you know, sources or at least mentions by other editors. Unless you two provide a source for your "elves of night", "descriptive Night Elves" and, in ravenmoon's case at least, for Cenarius being human or Dwarf, this will remain your headcanon and Night Elf means Kaldorei race like it always did.
    we are still on this? Where do you think I got these explanations? Alpha/beta testers, Wowpedia, Blizzard website, Blizzard interviews and presentations - I don't think anything I have said has been my speculation they've all been derived from source or players that made sense to me - after my overly generously positive view of the night elves year before last, and my efforts concerning night elf and troll origin - I stopped speculating and decided from then on I would go exactly where the developers and the experts were showing. I am not trying to make night elves or nightborne anything that they're not, as you well know I think the night elves are rubbish - what a let down and wasted opportunity, I may like them but I do not care for them like I once did - you just like arguing. I've seen your point of view, I know what you're saying, but you don't know see what I've been saying, I've not been pointing out what has come into my head, I've been pointing out what I've seen and observed and what has been remarked. I am not the source, you guys say things, I see, and if I agree I use it. There was a very good poster on the alpha forums, he may have been a blizzard employee or just a good fan, that wrote extremely well on the topic - but I have a nose for night elf stuff, so whether you agree with me or not, I try to say almost entirely on what I read and see presented, not what I want it to be. - I learnt that lesson.

    If I say something, I literally am reading off a source whether book, page or in-game, interview, video on related stuff. You see how much I write? I think henceforce, I shall just present quotations to you when you start off one. If you decide to twist them to prove you're right, then go on, kid yourself into thinking you're 100% objective and infallible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthralled View Post
    I noticed the funkiness going on with Wowpedia and I, too, thought that the wording sounded like ravenmoon.
    Other way round
    Quote Originally Posted by Enthralled View Post
    The only source given from Blizzard about this at all is from that Suramar zone preview where game designer Steve Burke is quoted as saying:
    but that is not enough for some people. I mean - interview, panel, chronicles, in-game, the presentation and display, it seems ridiculous that I'm even having this argument, it's like the more I try to prove the point, the more he argues. He strikes me as one of those people who has to have the last word and one has to agree with his view or he'll just not stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I think you're have stretched the issue well past any sane or meaningful level.

    You know there is such a thing as over-thinking, and also seeing what other people are trying to say, I've seen what you are saying and what Ravenmoon is saying and you're both right, you are basically arguing with seeing it that way, which is a perfectly valid way of seeing. And I prefer to look at it that way.
    .
    Exactly, I get the impression of this too, but he's so rude about it - insulting too. I've even gone as far as to tell him what he is saying is right to an extent in the context he is saying it, but he is just being bullishly stubborn of what I say, I think because it's me that's saying. He responds like that to me.. and it sours and detracts from a topic. If he wants to continue this discussion, he can private message me.

  11. #571
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    An opinion, even one supported by facts and evidence, does not become a fact just because it has support. The vast majority of what we deal with here in the Lore forums are matters of opinion and personal observation - which everyone has a right to have for their own, and can support or argue to the best of their abilities. If you disagree with someone's opinion by all means say so, and present your own evidence, but once both positions have been stated and their merits and flaws outlined I think it best to cease further argument and/or allow other people to participate in support or with their own take.

    After a certain point the back and forth of an argument just becomes noise and makes it more difficult for other people to participate. I think that point has been reached here. Let's see what other people have to say.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  12. #572
    Now what RAvenmoon is doing, and I don't disagree with him, is he is stating that Nightborne Elf is still an elf of the night or in short, a night elf (rather than write elf of the night all the time or ancient Night elf, or nocturnal elf, you can shorten that to night elf beacause that is what the term also means. It isn't exclusive to the name of the group called the Night ELves, it's also just short for elf of the night also descriptive. This is what you've both beeen arguing over, and it makes little difference to anything except perhaps egos? They will always be Nightborne elves, not Night Elves, and continue to be elves of the night or night elves, and they willl continue to be the Ancient Night Elves in new form. So you've basically being arguing over a technicality... which is taking nerdism to a new level.
    It's not me that's saying, this is what we are been shown! It's right there in the game, it's in the description, it's plainly obvious. You know how some smart people or rather people who think they are smart, for all their airs can miss things right in front of their noses, and have the gall to insult someone else for merely pointing it out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    An opinion, even one supported by facts and evidence, does not become a fact just because it has support. The vast majority of what we deal with here in the Lore forums are matters of opinion and personal observation - which everyone has a right to have for their own, and can support or argue to the best of their abilities. If you disagree with someone's opinion by all means say so, and present your own evidence, but once both positions have been stated and their merits and flaws outlined I think it best to cease further argument and/or allow other people to participate in support or with their own take.

    After a certain point the back and forth of an argument just becomes noise and makes it more difficult for other people to participate. I think that point has been reached here. Let's see what other people have to say.
    very very well said, people don't have to go on to insult another person over it, it's distasteful when that happens, and a bit souring, but it does happen when people are passionate. We all interpret facts and presentations differently, and sometimes we are influenced greatly by what someone else observes or presents. Is it the whole truth ? Not necessarily but it is a side to it. Afterall, we are all trying to understand something we enjoy better, and it's because we enjoy it that we write about it.

    I've tried apologizing privately so at least the tone calms down a bit, we can be friendly in our disagreements, I've tried to just say nothing, but I'm finding it hard, so help me God. I must do better.

    ANyway, well said, afterall, this is lore on fantasy, not even the devs I can assure you have that much intrinsic detail mapped out, but fans will go there sometimes, it's not worth the time I've spent writing about it though, because the more I write, the more he argues. So I should just stop, I must have said lets agree to disagree at least 5 times, but somehow keep getting drawn back in

  13. #573
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Don't the Shal'dorei consider themselves Night Elves both in-game and in the lore? As a subset they're called the Nightborne or Shal'dorei, but from both current and 7.1 information they seem to consider both the Kal'dorei (playable Night Elves) and Quel'dorei/Sin'dorei as offshoots and dilutions of their own noble blood. If you asked one of the Shal'dorei nobility I'd imagine they would scoff at the notion that the current Kal'dorei were even Night Elves - scraping in the dirt wild things, and living like savages in the trees.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  14. #574
    All the elves have the same ancestors and originate from the same race. Simply apply Darwin's theory on them and observe the way their environment changed them over time. Even the cinematic which is narrated by Thalyssra clearly states they were Night Elves before being turned into the Nightborne due to the barrier and as they feasted on the Nightwell.

    I don't understand how such a simple and easily graspable concept managed to spin into such a lenghty discussion, when its all crystal clear.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_NzxWGrVaY

    ".. my city was radiant, the jewel of the Night Elf empire."
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2016-09-18 at 05:51 PM.

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Don't the Shal'dorei consider themselves Night Elves both in-game and in the lore? As a subset they're called the Nightborne or Shal'dorei, but from both current and 7.1 information they seem to consider both the Kal'dorei (playable Night Elves) and Quel'dorei/Sin'dorei as offshoots and dilutions of their own noble blood. If you asked one of the Shal'dorei nobility I'd imagine they would scoff at the notion that the current Kal'dorei were even Night Elves - scraping in the dirt wild things, and living like savages in the trees.
    That's the impression I get, and many others, which is why I have seen it said that they are more night elven than the night elves themselves. The statement is also qualified too - because their existence is more night based, more star/moon orientated, they seem the more extreme version of night elvennism than the current night elves are.. and this is is no surprise, because they are the original night elves too, which unlike the ones we know, still have continued on in the original Kal'dorei way - as I've seen others say. I don't remember if it was Wowiki, official forums or wowpedia, or here, but someone said they moved further "night" in the penduluum. I mean Nightborne - it's in the name as has been said in this topic - Nightborne elves, Night Elves - seems like nightborne elves is a more hardcore degree of night elf.

  16. #576
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    yes, and I also think Star elves
    star elves sounds extremely shitty.

    kal'dorei means children of the stars, if they should be called anything other than night elves than it should be starborne.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    That's the impression I get, and many others, which is why I have seen it said that they are more night elven than the night elves themselves. The statement is also qualified too - because their existence is more night based, more star/moon orientated, they seem the more extreme version of night elvennism than the current night elves are.. and this is is no surprise, because they are the original night elves too, which unlike the ones we know, still have continued on in the original Kal'dorei way - as I've seen others say. I don't remember if it was Wowiki, official forums or wowpedia, or here, but someone said they moved further "night" in the penduluum. I mean Nightborne - it's in the name as has been said in this topic - Nightborne elves, Night Elves - seems like nightborne elves is a more hardcore degree of night elf.
    The cinematic narrated by Thalyssra clearly states they are Night Elves, transformed due to the barrier and the Nightwell.

  18. #578
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The cinematic narrated by Thalyssra clearly states they are Night Elves, transformed due to the barrier and the Nightwell.
    the barrier has little to do with it.
    they turned to the well to survive, the well changed them over time, the well also started "corrupting" them and turned them into bigger drug addicts than the blood elves.
    Last edited by Raetary; 2016-09-18 at 06:09 PM.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    The cinematic narrated by Thalyssra clearly states they are Night Elves, transformed due to the barrier and the Nightwell.
    you know that's not what I'm disputing, or contesting at all, I'm loving that, and enjoying it, their change from night elf to nightborne is not a step further way from night elvenness, it made them more night elven, more elves of the night, darker, more night. I love that. they alone remained originally Kal'dorei, that arcane night elven empire - which is what I actually loved most about the night elves anyway. While the other group, the Hyjal survived changed to a life without magic, they did not, but unlike the Shend'ralar were noble, shrugging off Azshara's madness, rebelling against her and repelling the demons, good arcane night elves, the good part of that amazing Night elven empire they described. Blizzard just made them even more so that level of night elvenness. THis is what I'm dancing and celebrating and enjoying, to the extent I changed my avatar. THis is what I've wanted, this is proper night elvenness in my opinion. Not that the current night elves aren't, they are a version of it, the vigil version = and that's what's called Night Elf to most people, original night elf is called nightborne elf which is like night elf extreme or deeper night elf - as others have pointed out. I love it. I'm not in denial, or disagreement at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    All the elves have the same ancestors and originate from the same race. Simply apply Darwin's theory on them and observe the way their environment changed them over time. Even the cinematic which is narrated by Thalyssra clearly states they were Night Elves before being turned into the Nightborne due to the barrier and as they feasted on the Nightwell.

    I don't understand how such a simple and easily graspable concept managed to spin into such a lenghty discussion, when its all crystal clear.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_NzxWGrVaY

    ".. my city was radiant, the jewel of the Night Elf empire."
    well that's what's sad, one person says A, the others AB. Person 2 says about AB: "It's not A at all, it's AB". But person 1 says, but A is in AB, in fact AB is the core of A, it's A modified, you don't have AB without A, and the reply is another lengthy discussion on how AB is not A - and it's utterly pointless. AB is not A, but AB is from A and part of the A group. THe only reason you add NIght to night elven is because of the night focus, and that is also there in nightborne and is in the name as well. One person is pointing out the connection, the other person is denying it.

    My conclusion, he simply didn't like how happy I was at seeing the nightborne and happy in their night elvenness and has gone out of the way to make it sound like I mean they're the same and refusing to see the simplicity of the whole thing. You know when some people observe someone is really happy about something, and they just hate that, so try to ruin it for them by sometimes the most mundane or pointless nag. He's been trying to point out to me that nightborne and night elves are not the same, I've acknowledged that and agreed with that from the very start, and yet here we still are. No it's not enough that their not the same, somehow there is no night elvenness in them because they are not night elves I'm like.. wtf? That's not the case, and that's not what I was saying.

    So every time I respond to him, it's as sif I'm trying to say Night elves are nightborne - so I specify what I mean as I've seen it described and as I understand it, yest nightborne are not the kal'dorei night elevs (the vigil night elves, the alliance night elves, the northern kalimdor night elves) but they are still night elven - this is the original night elven (anceint night elven, kal'dorei night elven) - .. and so it goes on, to no avail. Analogy, typology you name it, given, but no, he brings up the point again as if it wasn't understood, as if one is trying to deny, and just not for a second pausing to see what is actually been said here. And I can't help but conclude, the contention is nothing to do with the facts, or the topic, it's actually with me. It's me he has a problem with , what about me? my personality or my like for the night elves? nightborne? or my enjoying the whole night elvenness of the whole thing. and so he has just gone on a rant rampage.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2016-09-18 at 09:06 PM.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    I think none of them should have been called Night Elves, or at least the original name should have just been elves... The Dorei?


    The current Night Elves should be more Moonish, Moon Elves or Luna'Dorei. -Moonwells

    The Blood Elves and High Elves are more Sun Elves and get their appropriate name. -Sunwell

    The Nightborne spend more time studying the stars and have the Night Well, so they should be called Star Elves or Nightborne fits. -Nightwell

    - - - Updated - - -



    As someone who mained an Orc since Vanilla, I've never felt as an Orc, I had my time in the spotlight. People complain about SoO and WoD being all about Orcs, but it didn't do anything for Orc players. I didn't enjoy killing Orcs in Siege of Orgrimmar, I didn't enjoy killing Orcs throughout an entire Expansion either.

    I never got that neutral Orc faction that both Alliance and Horde had to work together with to defeat a baddy. Examples would be Argent Crusade(Heavily Human) Cenarion Circle in Firelands(Heavily Night Elves), Isle of Thunder which was Blood Elves/Humans, to name the most prominent ones. Not until WoD when we got the Frostwolves, but we were killing Orcs the entire time which easily cancelled it out. And it was only for Horde.

    It doesn't bother me much though, the game was made on the fact that Orcs are bad, Humans are good. I readily enjoy any content that Blood Elves get or Forsaken, though they never get to be the heroes like Humans or Night Elves...
    I prefer
    night elves= wood elves

    nightborne= dark elves

    blood elves= light elves
    the night elves live in trees and forests.
    the blood elves is all about the sun and is now focused light thematic.
    shal'dorei: shal means dark therefore shal'dorei are dark elf
    Last edited by Rhlor; 2016-09-18 at 06:32 PM.

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