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  1. #101
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondzik View Post
    Stormpike never fought to retake Lordaeron, they only cared about Alterac Valley, Southshore had no military whatsoever, Varian declared desire after plague developed by forsaken, known to Sylvanas, wrecked havoc at Wrathgate. Still, no military moved, Alliance forces arrived after forsaken attacked Gilneas. Stormpike forces moved to attack Tarren Mill after forsaken obliterated living in Hilsbrad Foothills Every single time forsaken were the agressor.
    The Dwarf Garrison and Southshore were both taken out , before South shore was the main supplier of all Alliance forces in Lordaeron There is no proof the Forsaken started the conflict in Hillsbarad. Varian still had a desire to take Lordaeron a desire he held onto until Sylvanas beat it out of him in Cata. The Dalarn mages also planned to aid the Alliance in taking over Lordaeron in Silverpine.

    on the plague, it was used without the approval of Sylvanas or most of the Forsaken, it was done by Putress and Varimathras.

    The Alliance got itself into a war with the Forsaken, and now the Forsaken have to build themselves up to continue said war.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    The Dwarf Garrison and Southshore were both taken out , before South shore was the main supplier of all Alliance forces in Lordaeron
    What forces? There were no forces aside from Stormpike Army, which was fighting in Alterac. No forces, not at all.

    There is no proof the Forsaken started the conflict in Hillsbarad. Varian still had a desire to take Lordaeron a desire he held onto until Sylvanas beat it out of him in Cata.
    Sylvanas beat nothing out of Varian, beacuse no forces were committed to take Lordaeron. Forsaken invaded Gilneas just for sake of it, Gilneas joined Alliance, 7th Legion came to help Gilneas and together beat forsaken in Silverpine(till Darius Crowley decision). When Stormpike Army was preparing to attack Tarren Mill, Southshore was already destroyed, there were only worgens in the woods - proof that it happened after attack on Gilneas - conflict started by Forsaken.

    The Dalarn mages also planned to aid the Alliance in taking over Lordaeron in Silverpine.
    Again, after Forsaken attacked Gilneas.

    on the plague, it was used without the approval of Sylvanas or most of the Forsaken, it was done by Putress and Varimathras.
    It was used without her approval, but was developed with one. Plague was meant to destroy scourge and living. Putress just used before Sylvanas saw it fit. Ane there were quests like this http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Battle_of_Hillsbrad

    The Alliance got itself into a war with the Forsaken, and now the Forsaken have to build themselves up to continue said war.
    Forsaken started this war and let's be honest - if Alliance would really commit to it, the Forsaken would stand no chance. 7th Legion and remains of Gilneas forces made it hard for Forsaken, add Stormpike Army and potential reinforcements and that's it. I don't see Blood Elves dieing for Forsaken plague.

  3. #103
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    What forces? There were no forces aside from Stormpike Army, which was fighting in Alterac. No forces, not at all.
    Uh the giant dwarven bunker in eastern hillsbrad?

    Sylvanas beat nothing out of Varian, beacuse no forces were committed to take Lordaeron.
    7th legion, and andorhol?

    Forsaken invaded Gilneas just for sake of it,
    Garroshed forced them to invade gilnaes....

    Again, after Forsaken attacked Gilneas.
    These mages had been planning since classic, something you would know if you payed attention to more than half of a story.

    t was used without her approval, but was developed with one. Plague was meant to destroy scourge and living. Putress just used before Sylvanas saw it fit. Ane there were quests like this http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Battle_of_Hillsbrad
    doesnt change the fact that it wasn't the "forsaken" who blighted the wrathgate.

    Forsaken started this war and let's be honest
    This should be amusing

    if Alliance would really commit to it, the Forsaken would stand no chance.
    Uh, sorry to break it to you, they did and the Forsaken beat them.

    7th Legion and remains of Gilneas forces made it hard for Forsaken, add Stormpike Army and potential reinforcements and that's it. I don't see Blood Elves dieing for Forsaken plague.
    If you are adding potential reinforcements, then Horde would have the same. Forsaken fought on multiple fronts by themselves while using weakened blight that didn't even hurt the Worgen. Now All that would happen would be the Alliance losing faster. if we are being honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjoramier of Lordaeron View Post
    So excited for siege of undercity, can't wait to put that bitch down.

    Hopefully the angsty teens who masturbate to her quit as well
    Aaaaany day now. People have been repeating that only since WotLK Alpha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  5. #105
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondzik View Post
    Further in that chain you find their registry where Hillsbrad had pledged itself to the Alliance.

    Also: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Questangerous!

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    I asked him wether he thinks its a military marvel or not because he thinks that bombing Theramore was, which made me wonder wether he feels the same about the possible destruction of Orgrimmar. You telling me that she attempted to do something she decided not to do doesn't contribute to the discussion.

    You could talk about it if she had done it, but that wasn't the case. The conclusion and what happened is that Jaina didn't do to Orgrimmar what the Horde did to Theramore, even though she had the opportunity and even though thousands upon thousands were killed not long before that.
    And the real conclusion is that Jaina wouldn't do the same thing to Orgrimmar either way because the circumstances and even the goals were different, just like Aqua said.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    It is also a fact that it was the Horde that was the first one to kill an extremely large number of civilians yet again, while she decided not to give a proportionate answer in return. Pretty much the same things that transpired over the First and Second War happened once again and it is the Alliance that spares the enemy.
    Except none died in Theramore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    This is the key difference between the two factions throughout Warcraft history; a part or the entirety of the Horde starts trouble and the other races and factions have to endure time and time again.
    Considering that Theramore wasn't anywhere near the start of the war, this is bogus argument to make in regards to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    That is speculation. I am speaking of what she clearly could've done.
    Well, alternate universes are alternate and all, but in the one Jaina did flood Orgrimmar she did indeed die.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Unlike the Horde's countless genocidal stunts, Alliance ones can only be talked about through the prism of possibility, not actual deeds. Once again, this is the difference between them.
    What countless genocidal stunts? And attempted crime is no longer in the realm of mere possibility.


    Quote Originally Posted by frogger237 View Post
    Well if the people saying Sylvanas intentionally spared Genn in their fight in Stormheim because she never misses are correct then she most likely did intentionally kill Liam cause its pretty easy to see when someone is jumping in the way from 10 feet away especially compared to a Worgen dodging the fuck out of you.
    Sylvanas could have personally bandaged Genn in Stormheim, doesn't change the fact that Liam was an enemy combatant during war. As such, his death was not murder one way or another.


    Quote Originally Posted by Leyre View Post
    1 thing also confuses me, where the FUCK were we, when genn was trying to kill our Warchief?? did we suddenly vanished???
    Our characters were wondering about the part of the quest that was cut for no reason and were baffled by the sudden skip to the cinematic with all its shitty delivery.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Andy View Post
    Because the Death Knights have more or less been neutral arbiters.

    The Forsaken are the ones plaguing and destroying the landscape and raising the inhabitants as servants as their Bitch Queen scurries around enslaving deities for immortality.
    The Forsaken are raising people as free undead. Death Knights raise people as servants. Which makes them worse and your explanation factually incorrect on multiple levels.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sondzik View Post
    And why would Alliance attack them if they would sit still in Tirisfal Glades and neighbouring lands? Land is plagued, people are dead, no reason to go there. The more they expand, the more likely would be Alliance attack. Yay, 2 people family, which can't expand, I wonder how much space they need, especially when you remember that they have no need of fields. They think it's blessing? Good for them, keep it for themselves, not use your own plague on still living people and areas cleansed of scourge. Live (or not) and let live others.
    Because they attacked them in WotLK before they started to expand?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sondzik View Post
    So tell me when exactly Alliance attacked forsaken or moved forces to Lordaeron before forsaken attacked Gilneas without a reason and murdered people in Hilsbrad Foothills destroying Southshore? Before that Alliance military in Lordaeron was non existent aside from Stormpike Army in Alterac.
    Also Dun Garok, League of Arathor and potentially Ambermill. With Hillsbrad being hostile and Soutshore also being hostile and supporting the rest financially.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sondzik View Post
    Stormpike never fought to retake Lordaeron, they only cared about Alterac Valley, Southshore had no military whatsoever, Varian declared desire after plague developed by forsaken, known to Sylvanas, wrecked havoc at Wrathgate. Still, no military moved, Alliance forces arrived after forsaken attacked Gilneas. Stormpike forces moved to attack Tarren Mill after forsaken obliterated living in Hilsbrad Foothills Every single time forsaken were the agressor.
    Southshore certainly did have military. It fucked you up when you got too close when doing the Helcular quest. And Varian was fully aware that the Wrathgate was performed by rebels and still went to Undercity to "reclaim" it for the Alliance, with military support, and attacked Horde leadership there and declared war. And before Cataclysm Stormpikes (who, by the way, were the aggressor in Alterac Valley) agreed to fuck off from Alterac. The very fact they were still around to retaliate for Southshore was them exhibiting inability to give a shit about their agreements with the Horde even in times of the factions aiming for peace. And considering that Gilneas was defeated by the Forsaken and Gilneans fled their kingdom before they even rejoined the Alliance, 7th Legion's invasion of Gilneas was Alliance being the aggressor because it was already Forsaken territory by then.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sondzik View Post
    Sylvanas beat nothing out of Varian, beacuse no forces were committed to take Lordaeron. Forsaken invaded Gilneas just for sake of it, Gilneas joined Alliance, 7th Legion came to help Gilneas and together beat forsaken in Silverpine(till Darius Crowley decision). When Stormpike Army was preparing to attack Tarren Mill, Southshore was already destroyed, there were only worgens in the woods - proof that it happened after attack on Gilneas - conflict started by Forsaken.
    The 7th Legion was defeated later on in Silverpine. So Sylvanas did beat a lot out of Varian. And Forsaken were forces to invade Gilneas by Garrosh. Then nuked Stormpikes to oblivion. Ambermill was wiped out. Dun Garok was wiped out. Gilneas was forced to abandon their kingdom. Andorhal and probably Chillwind Camp were also defeated.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sondzik View Post
    It was used without her approval, but was developed with one. Plague was meant to destroy scourge and living. Putress just used before Sylvanas saw it fit. Ane there were quests like this http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Battle_of_Hillsbrad
    Which means Varian had fuck all in terms of justification for war. I'm pretty sure some Druids of the Flame used weapons that were forged in Darnassus. If there was no war going on already at the time, should have Horde invaded Darnassus over it, because Fandral attacked Thrall? And the only "person" that Blight was tested on in Hillsbrad in that questline was a dog.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sondzik View Post
    Forsaken started this war and let's be honest - if Alliance would really commit to it, the Forsaken would stand no chance. 7th Legion and remains of Gilneas forces made it hard for Forsaken, add Stormpike Army and potential reinforcements and that's it. I don't see Blood Elves dieing for Forsaken plague.
    Any potential reinforcements would have to be human and that would allow the Forsaken to faceroll through 7th Legion. The non-human part of it was still defeated, along with the Stormpikes. And Alliance was already stretched too thin in 4.0. Sending even more soldiers at Sylvanas would mean the forces in Kalimdor would fail even harder.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2016-09-18 at 11:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  7. #107
    The only thing confusing is why Slyvanas didn't "smell" Genn to prevent his surprise attack. Then I realized that was something a rabid Slyvanas fanboy pulled out from the depths of his ass. Haha, if Slyvanas can't smell the stench of a wet dog then she and the forsaken can't "smell the living" to prevent ambushes/surprise attacks.

  8. #108
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    The only thing confusing is why Slyvanas didn't "smell" Genn to prevent his surprise attack. Then I realized that was something a rabid Slyvanas fanboy pulled out from the depths of his ass. Haha, if Slyvanas can't smell the stench of a wet dog then she and the forsaken can't "smell the living" to prevent ambushes/surprise attacks.
    and boy did Genn sure surprise her dodged his first attacks and then recovered from his only attack that hit her with no visible signs of damage. Not to mention the Alliance rogue network has been effectively ruined by Detheroc. Have fun fantasizing buddy.
    Last edited by Friendlyimmolation; 2016-09-19 at 12:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    and boy did Genn sure surprise her dodged his first attacks and then recovered from his only attack that hit her with no visible signs of damage. Not to mention the Alliance rogue network has been effectively ruined by Detheroc. Have fun fantasizing buddy.
    And? The scene proved the forsaken cant smell the living to prevent a surprise attack. That's all that matters. Sorry to trigger you. Haha.

  10. #110
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    And? The scene proved the forsaken cant smell the living to prevent a surprise attack. That's all that matters. Sorry to trigger you. Haha.
    The leaps and bounds you made to come to this conclusion must surely be mind boggling. I Salute you. There is no point in arguing with you when you are this caught up in your own interpretation of facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    The leaps and bounds you made to come to this conclusion must surely be mind boggling. I Salute you. There is no point in arguing with you when you are this caught up in your own interpretation of facts.
    Haha. There is no point arguing because you don't have a point.
    Last edited by Tripzzz; 2016-09-19 at 12:17 AM.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    Blizzard's storytelling would be disastrous if they had Genn's character forgive everything that was done to him, his kingdom, his family and his people.

    Genn and Jaina are the only two Alliance characters that show an expectable and logical progression in terms of character development that is shaped by what is happening to them.
    Well, it is a war.

    Jaina & Genn are *not* logical. They are consumed by retribution, even though their hatred of the Horde is a circumstance of affiliation: Garrosh acted without approval of the other Horde leaders, and when they found out the Horde had a revolt. And as for Genn's son, Genn is as responsible for his death as Sylvanas was. He only died because Genn devised a trap for Sylvanas to make her think the Gilneans had abandoned the city, where they ambushed her.

  13. #113
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    Haha. There is no point arguing because you don't have a point.
    This is probably the most challenging debate I've had in years, the facts are stacked against me surely with a response like that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Well, it is a war.

    Jaina & Genn are *not* logical. They are consumed by retribution, even though their hatred of the Horde is a circumstance of affiliation: Garrosh acted without approval of the other Horde leaders, and when they found out the Horde had a revolt. And as for Genn's son, Genn is as responsible for his death as Sylvanas was. He only died because Genn devised a trap for Sylvanas to make her think the Gilneans had abandoned the city, where they ambushed her.
    I wouldn't really blame Genn for his son's death, I mean he didn't force his son to go Its a complicated issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    This is probably the most challenging debate I've had in years, the facts are stacked against me surely with a response like that.
    I though you said there was no point in arguing?
    So why didn't Sylvanas "smell" Genn before his attack?

  15. #115
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    I though you said there was no point in arguing?
    So why didn't Sylvanas "smell" Genn before his attack?
    Just imagine a scenario where Sylvanas was entirely focused on the binding of a Val'kyr queen (bare with me here, were going into pretty tough stuff here) Imagine that in her focus on binding a Val'kyr queen in this situation, that she wouldn't notice Genn. Now I think this is a very possible theory with some merit.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Just imagine a scenario where Sylvanas was entirely focused on the binding of a Val'kyr queen (bare with me here, were going into pretty tough stuff here) Imagine that in her focus on binding a Val'kyr queen in this situation, that she wouldn't notice Genn. Now I think this is a very possible theory with some merit.
    Now imagine the entire storyline in Stormheim is Genn tracking Slyvanas. Is Slyvanas so oblivious to this fact or is her information network utter shit?

    She was soo focused on fucking over Eyir(forsaken free will and all that) she didn't even stop to consider the one variable that would completely fuck her plan up? Yep, sounds like dumb ol' Slyvanas to me.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    Now imagine the entire storyline in Stormheim is Genn tracking Slyvanas. Is Slyvanas so oblivious to this fact or is her information network utter shit?
    He only got a lead shortly before Skold-Ashil and only because of ship crash in Azsuna.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    He only got a lead shortly before Skold-Ashil and only because of ship crash in Azsuna.
    But what stopped her from "smelling" Genn to prevent his surprise attack? After all, the forsaken can not be victims of surprise attacks because they can "smell" you out. It says so right here in the "Forsaken fanwank Bible", page 1.

  19. #119
    The Insane Aquamonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripzzz View Post
    But what stopped her from "smelling" Genn to prevent his surprise attack? After all, the forsaken can not be victims of surprise attacks because they can "smell" you out.
    Forsaken generally have dulled senses, including smell. Their senses slowly get better with prolonged exposure to the Light.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Are there long-term effects on an undead who is in regular contact with the Holy Light in a positive way?
    It is difficult to say, as there are no known records of undead wielding the Holy Light before the Third War. There are reports, however, that some Forsaken have slowly experienced a sharpening of their dulled senses of touch, smell, etc., as well as an increase in the flashes of positive emotions that have otherwise become so rare since their fall into undeath. Unfortunately, this may be the cause of the Forsaken priesthood's increased attempts at self-destruction; regaining these senses would force the priests to smell their own rotting flesh, taste the decay in their mouths and throats, and even feel the maggots burrowing within their bodies. (AskCDev2)

  20. #120
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    I don't think the Forsaken have any kind of superior olfactory sense - their senses are actually dulled by the state of undeath: colors muted and palette stifled. It makes sense that Sylvanas was unlikely to smell him even in Worgen form. Barring that Genn was also up in the rafters of the structure she and Eyir were inside, it wouldn't be easy to smell him especially when you've got your attention and will focused on subduing a vengeful Titan servitor creature.

    I'm not quite sure how this factors greatly into the debate.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

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