Payday loans

[Asiwassaying]

No offense to all, but I find it really interesting how so many people that have no experience on a topic can be so opinionated on something that doesn't effect them.

It strikes me as similar to a group of white people trying to explain how it's like to be black.

[Berengil]

No, they don't, but medium to large banks ARE required to have branches in underserved areas. Smaller banks aren't subject to the same regulations as larger banks. It's like a tier system. National banks are under the most stringent rules, followed by regional banks, then the weakest rules are on the smallest banks that only have, maybe, one or two branches in a specific area.

There are banks in my area in underprivileged areas - and yes, I did just double check, using maps.

That doesn't mean that large banks don't try to get out of it. They do. I'm personally waiting for CapitalOne to get smacked by the government because they're shutting down massive numbers of branches, especially in underserved areas, and that's going to get them in trouble. But I don't think their CEO much cares - the bank is just loose money to fund their credit cards anyway.

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Which is messed up, because they would be better off banking. There are transparency rules that banks have to follow that payday lenders often don't (they're supposed to follow them, but there's less chance of a payday lender getting in trouble).

I get the intent behind the idea of forcing banks into underserved areas (and I agree with the spirit of the law), but it seems odd to me.

I mean how can someone be forced to open a business?

Enforce laws against discriminating upon people from those areas? Sure. But actually force someone to open a business? Something about that doesn't sit right with me.

[the game]

Once again "They get away with it" is not a compelling argument for why something is acceptable, especially when the reason they get away with it is by paying politicians to leave them alone.

It's always amazing to me how the victim of a situation should be chastised and held responsible for their actions, but the predator who intentionally ripped them off is somehow totally not responsible at all, and we dare not question them.

I'm always amazed these days how many people aren't responsible for their own actions.

[NineSpine]

I'm always amazed these days how many people aren't responsible for their own actions.

Again: "It works and they get away with it" is not a solid or compelling defense of fraud. Here's a crazy idea: Maybe the people committing the fucking fraud and bribing politicians should be the ones whose responsibility for their actions we are concerned with? But no, to the fascist, the only person who needs to bear responsibility is the powerless person.

[the game]

Again: "It works and they get away with it" is not a solid or compelling defense of fraud. Here's a crazy idea: Maybe the people committing the fucking fraud and bribing politicians should be the ones whose responsibility for their actions we are concerned with? But no, to the fascist, the only person who needs to bear responsibility is the powerless person.

So the people signing on the dotted line aren't responsible for themselves then? a simple yes or no would suffice.

[TirielWoW]

I get the intent behind the idea of forcing banks into underserved areas (and I agree with the spirit of the law), but it seems odd to me.

I mean how can someone be forced to open a business?

Enforce laws against discriminating upon people from those areas? Sure. But actually force someone to open a business? Something about that doesn't sit right with me.

Banks have to go to the government to expand, and because of their status as a more powerful party than the average consumer, they are held to a higher standard. There are a lot of regulations that exist that I had no idea about until I went to work for a bank. But these regulations are absolutely needed, because if a bank can get away with abusing their customers, they often will. Just look at Wells Fargo.

And no, there is no way on god's green earth that the management didn't know that was going on. They absolutely knew. You can't hide 1.5 million dummy accounts. That's why you have a back office.

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So the people signing on the dotted line aren't responsible for themselves then? a simple yes or no would suffice.

In the context of financial stuff, it's a question of which party has the most power, and how much they're abusing that power to get what they want. In most cases, people who are financially unstable are either ignorant of their rights, or in a situation where their judgement is impaired due to the situation/stress.

[NineSpine]

So the people signing on the dotted line aren't responsible for themselves then? a simple yes or no would suffice.

Depends on the situation. I don't blame people for believing that the lender wouldn't lie to them to get them to sign, as most people assume that's illegal, and I also don't blame the average person for not knowing how to interpret complex loan agreements. Typically, lenders are required by law to be able to explain these documents honestly, but with payday lenders, that is largely suspended, for two reasons: The people they prey on don't have the means to do anything about it, and the

If I sold you a mortgage and you found out that I used complex, fraudulent, but ultimately legal methods to hide an exploding interest rate in a technicality on page 56, something tells me you wouldn't say "Aw, shucks! My fault!" I'm willing to wage my entire savings that you'd freak the fuck out and threaten to sue me. People like you, as in those who completely lack empathy and endorse preying on powerless people, are always the first to totally lose their shit when they are the one that gets fucked.

[Berengil]

Banks have to go to the government to expand, and because of their status as a more powerful party than the average consumer, they are held to a higher standard. There are a lot of regulations that exist that I had no idea about until I went to work for a bank. But these regulations are absolutely needed, because if a bank can get away with abusing their customers, they often will. Just look at Wells Fargo.

And no, there is no way on god's green earth that the management didn't know that was going on. They absolutely knew. You can't hide 1.5 million dummy accounts. That's why you have a back office.

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In the context of financial stuff, it's a question of which party has the most power, and how much they're abusing that power to get what they want. In most cases, people who are financially unstable are either ignorant of their rights, or in a situation where their judgement is impaired due to the situation/stress.

Yes, I suppose I understand what the government is trying to do. I simply disagree with the method. Actually telling someone " you have to open a business here" just strikes me as going too far.

[NineSpine]

Yes, I suppose I understand what the government is trying to do. I simply disagree with the method. Actually telling someone " you have to open a business here" just strikes me as going too far.

You have to consider the context. Banks are chartered by the government, protected from bank panics by the government, and most importantly, allowed by the government to pretend they have more money than they actually do, to facilitate lending. These privileges they are granted come with a price to society.

[purebalance]

Low income areas are drenched in payday loan places. That's the whole business model. They set up shop in poor areas, get people to take one loan, and that puts people into a cycle where they constantly need the loan to stay afloat.

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Let them eat cake!

Not everyone lives walking distance from a bank. Banks do not set up shop in poor areas.

If only there were these services that cost about a dollar or so that ran from poor areas to other areas of town.....

[NineSpine]

If only there were these services that cost about a dollar or so that ran from poor areas to other areas of town.....

Not every area has public transportation. In fact, the VAST majority of areas do not. For areas that do, public transportation is often incredibly slow, meaning a simple trip to the bank could easily take hours.

Topics like this always expose the most amazing levels of pure ignorance.

[purebalance]

Not every area has public transportation. In fact, the VAST majority of areas do not. For areas that do, public transportation is often incredibly slow, meaning a simple trip to the bank could easily take hours.

Topics like this always expose the most amazing levels of pure ignorance.

Yeah from people like you. I've lived in both types of areas and could easily get around without driving.

[TirielWoW]

Yes, I suppose I understand what the government is trying to do. I simply disagree with the method. Actually telling someone " you have to open a business here" just strikes me as going too far.

Banking is weird, because a lot of what we do is tied up with the government. If you think that's bad, you should see what we have to report about people thanks to the Patriot Act.

[Cthulhu 2020]

How exactly are they being deceived? The terms of the loan are clearly printed on the forms you fill out to get the pay day loan.

Well let's see, there's the fact that some of them are just outright dishonest and don't give all the terms up front and hide many hidden fees and fines behind "go look up our terms", and some don't tell you at all. They may be regulated, but given how easy it is to set one up, if they get shut down because they're being dishonest, another one just sets up shop right where the other closes down.

Payday loan places are more common than McDonald's in the US.

Payday loans are also debt traps by design. Some even shamelessly say this in their employee manuals, although they don't call it a loan trap, it's a guide on how to get the people you loan money to take out another loan (that costs them $30 per $100)to pay for their old loan to avoid paying the $200 late fine.

There's pretty big reasons why payday loans are flat out illegal in most modern first world nations.

Also, saying "Well you signed the contract, you should know what you're getting into!" hasn't held up in court many times when something was a blatant scam, rip off, or exploitative.

Or here you go... it will probably go in one ear and out the other and I'm probably talking to a brick wall, but John Oliver does a pretty good job on this as well.



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So then the problem is that they aren't reading what they're signing when they go to a place that has predatory lending practices. Sounds like a case of they're fucking themselves over.

Bait and switch is illegal you know. And yeah, many get away with illegal practices for months if not years, and sometimes NEVER get taken down, and most have already made their money by that time.

Some of the biggest chains in the industry have been charged many times with ILLEGALLY overcharging their customers, along with many other charges throughout the years. But they shrug at settlements, because they're just making so much money.

Stop making excuses for shitty predatory businesses. If you want the situation of the poor to improve in America, payday loans should go the way of the dinosaur. If you don't care about the poor and don't use payday loans, then what the hell do you care?

[NineSpine]

Yeah from people like you. I've lived in both types of areas and could easily get around without driving.

You think people in rural areas where there is no public transportation just magically teleport everywhere?

I live near Albany NY. Albany is 10 minutes from Schenectady. The bus trip is over an hour. Get real. You don't know shit. You are just too arrogant and condescending to admit otherwise.

[Asiwassaying]

Yeah from people like you. I've lived in both types of areas and could easily get around without driving.

I'm gonna go ahead and call you a liar. State two cities as examples of both and explain how you managed this so the rest of us can follow your example.


Because I too have lived in both.

Public transit good : Brooklyn and Bridgeport. And by good, I mean it took me 15 minutes to get from my home to downtown. Which was like 2 miles away. It was worse in Brooklyn with traffic but I count that as good. And that is not counting wait times for the busses and trains and travel from your stop to the destination. Both of which can easily add 30 minutes one way depending. More if you gotta transfer at the main hub.


Bad example. Basically most Midwestern cities. Houston sucks for one. The buss don't even run near my home now. If I didn't have a car I literally could not live in large portions of the city. In Tennessee, I think I saw the bus twice in 8 years. They run sort of in Nashville, but if I lived in Nashville did clearly have a good deal of cash. I didn't have a car until I moved from the north and it was because I absolutely needed one to do anything from get food to go to work or just to the bank.



So I do not believe you. I think you are a privileged individual who thinks they know what it's like to be lower income and without things like a car but for some reason you are just looking for reasons to bash the poor cause our life is as easy as yours right?

[Deleted]

credit cards and loans are the cancer of the financial area

[Deleted]

credit cards and loans are the cancer of the financial area

I got my first credit card at the age of 19 and with some basic financial education it was an extremely helpful tool.

It's more the dolts who think its free money out of the ATM than the card itself.

[Deleted]

credit cards are fine if you can pay the fee's

[Asiwassaying]

I got my first credit card at the age of 19 and with some basic financial education it was an extremely helpful tool.

It's more the dolts who think its free money out of the ATM than the card itself.

Not trying to defend fools. But...the financial education in America is pretty much non existent. I'm pretty sure the person who educated you was not your teacher in class.

One benefit some folks have is having knowledgable family and friends who set them up for success.