[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Taeldorian]

So im debating on getting the Dominion deck, is it worth it getting it to 850? How good is it scaling for us?

Right now I have Faulty Countermeasures 840 and Spiked Counterweight 840

Ive heard Hellfire was really good, but Im not sure about the scaling. I think the trinkets you have are good right now. I think the only thing worth it is the hellfire thing.

[Ulthane]

Ive heard Hellfire was really good, but Im not sure about the scaling. I think the trinkets you have are good right now. I think the only thing worth it is the hellfire thing.

Hellfire? Let me look this up

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Hellfire is INT lolol

[Puzzony]

So im debating on getting the Dominion deck, is it worth it getting it to 850? How good is it scaling for us?

Right now I have Faulty Countermeasures 840 and Spiked Counterweight 840

Counterweight is on the lower end of the rankings for ret. Dominion ilv850 is third place behind mythic and HC FCM. If you dont want to spend that kind of money on it, wait til' reset, world bosses will be presumably enabled and you can get the Ettin Toenail from the ettin worldboss, which ranks about the same as the dominion.

[Ulthane]

Counterweight is on the lower end of the rankings for ret. Dominion ilv850 is third place behind mythic and HC FCM. If you dont want to spend that kind of money on it, wait til' reset, world bosses will be presumably enabled and you can get the Ettin Toenail from the ettin worldboss, which ranks about the same as the dominion.

Oh im buying the trinket soon. RNG is something that hasn't been kind even though I was lucky and got the Legendary ring that buffs AW. Beyond that drops were not happening so i had to take it into my own hands and craft/farm for days. So totally getting this deck tonight. After talking to a few other rets and reading the forums gotta get it.

[OrcsRLame]

Anyone have any info on what trinkets in EN are the best for us?

The EN trinkets are garbage for us; or at least, according to sims, they're garbage for my character. Ursoc's Rending Paw was the best of the 3, (the Nythendra trinket doesn't even count in my book) and my 850 Hunger of the Pack was better even with a heroic URP. It actually took a mythic version to beat out Hunger of the Pack.

I'm fairly certain that at equivalent ilvl, nothing will beat out Faulty Countermeasure pre-7.1. Simming my character, (again, your results may vary) and bumping the ilvl of trinkets up to 895, Unstable Arcanocrystal from Withered Ji'm, (world boss) was actually the best, followed by Ettin Fingernail, (also from a world boss) and the next best was Hunger of the Pack, followed by Nightmare Egg Shell and Chrono Shard. I didn't sim any other dungeon trinkets, because I can't recall any others that aren't either some kind of cleave trinket or just plain bad. Those trinkets were all reasonably close to each other though. The difference between Unstable Arcanocrystal and Chrono Shard was only 6016 dps. I mean, that's not an insignificant amount, but it's close enough that you'd probably be okay using any of those trinkets if they rolled big dick titanforged.

Note I did all these sims with TfoJ, VB and Crusade.

[Puzzony]

The EN trinkets are garbage for us; or at least, according to sims, they're garbage for my character. Ursoc's Rending Paw was the best of the 3, (the Nythendra trinket doesn't even count in my book) and my 850 Hunger of the Pack was better even with a heroic URP. It actually took a mythic version to beat out Hunger of the Pack.

I'm fairly certain that at equivalent ilvl, nothing will beat out Faulty Countermeasure pre-7.1. Simming my character, (again, your results may vary) and bumping the ilvl of trinkets up to 895, Unstable Arcanocrystal from Withered Ji'm, (world boss) was actually the best, followed by Ettin Fingernail, (also from a world boss) and the next best was Hunger of the Pack, followed by Nightmare Egg Shell and Chrono Shard. I didn't sim any other dungeon trinkets, because I can't recall any others that aren't either some kind of cleave trinket or just plain bad. Those trinkets were all reasonably close to each other though. The difference between Unstable Arcanocrystal and Chrono Shard was only 6016 dps. I mean, that's not an insignificant amount, but it's close enough that you'd probably be okay using any of those trinkets if they rolled big dick titanforged.

Note I did all these sims with TfoJ, VB and Crusade.

VB's heavy reliance on crit can fuck up simming, do it again with BoW or no lvl60 talent.

[OrcsRLame]

VB's heavy reliance on crit can fuck up simming, do it again with BoW or no lvl60 talent.

I will when I'm less lazy. I'll probably get around to it in the next day or so. I simmed with VB because right now with my gear VB does more dps.

[Deleted]

on to a more imminent issue. What do you guys think about the nerf to our most efficent WQ specc? 10% dmg from prot + a nerf to self heal... what do they think? I know there are tank speccs out there who are very much out of line. Looking at you blood DK! but why prot paladin?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

on to a more imminent issue. What do you guys think about the nerf to our most efficent WQ specc? 10% dmg from prot + a nerf to self heal... what do they think? I know there are tank speccs out there who are very much out of line. Looking at you blood DK! but why prot paladin?

I don't know about damage but I think Prot is spiky at least when I did the Artifact questline. If you're not on your toes you're fucked.

[Taeldorian]

Hellfire? Let me look this up

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Hellfire is INT lolol

Lol my bad I was thinking of holy. I switch between forums too much.

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on to a more imminent issue. What do you guys think about the nerf to our most efficent WQ specc? 10% dmg from prot + a nerf to self heal... what do they think? I know there are tank speccs out there who are very much out of line. Looking at you blood DK! but why prot paladin?

The damage nerf affects everyone. Not just Prot. Nerfing bloods damage reduces the heal DS does.

I think it's a dumb idea to nerf every tank across the board. They should've just nerfed AoE from tanks rather than everything. It won't affect us too much during questing but I quest as ret because i find it easier.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

When it comes to tanks, I rather they do small nerfs. 50% would be absurd or anything higher then what they are doing now. If it is too much, they could just buff it to the proper level. I mean with the new hotfix system they got, they could fix it easily.

[Snegovik]

The more important question is . Will The new and "improved" Crusade function in combination with Lawbringer?

My thoughts exactly, because if it does, Rets' dps or law bringer or crusader will be nerfed. Lets say somehow you can fit 15 judgements into one crusader, youll get 15*5=75% hp gone with in duration, thats before any dmg you deal or ur team deals, and it won't be affected by HP pool of the target, since its 5% of ur total hp flat. This just looks like a very very bad idea, i know this is PvP issue, but the talent and balance of our dmg abilities affect both PvP and PvE.

[Vx-Odessa-xV]

Worst melee in game by standards of mobility, self defense capabilities, output, and group utility. Poorly designed mastery cata warrior 2.0 copy paste, when old mastery mechanic was given to balanced druid copy paste, despite being "unfun and not engaging" that saw ret lose this. Judgment of colossal smash playstyle, all utility spells brought by holy and prot anyway with Sac and Selfless Healer removed. Only melee without a built-in cleave ability to use for AoE with HoR removed, and a mastery/judgment synergy design that makes a max 2 mobs ONLY in any AoE pull take increased damage. Horrible mobility that calls for a GCD waste of freedom to even use effectively, while on a long CD with terrible uptime. Talent level choices have no real change to play or real choice of which is useless and which is left the obvious to use. Justified poor damage output with "hybrid tax" when druids have this not done to them at all.

Its a dark day indeed to be ret. #RetLivesMatter

[Ryuji]

So playing against a mage in pvp is pretty much cancer still, good to know. They dispel just about everything sans wings. :< Shield of Vengeance pls.

[Taeldorian]

Worst melee in game by standards of mobility, self defense capabilities, output, and group utility. Poorly designed mastery cata warrior 2.0 copy paste, when old mastery mechanic was given to balanced druid copy paste, despite being "unfun and not engaging" that saw ret lose this. Judgment of colossal smash playstyle, all utility spells brought by holy and prot anyway with Sac and Selfless Healer removed. Only melee without a built-in cleave ability to use for AoE with HoR removed, and a mastery/judgment synergy design that makes a max 2 mobs ONLY in any AoE pull take increased damage. Horrible mobility that calls for a GCD waste of freedom to even use effectively, while on a long CD with terrible uptime. Talent level choices have no real change to play or real choice of which is useless and which is left the obvious to use. Justified poor damage output with "hybrid tax" when druids have this not done to them at all.

Its a dark day indeed to be ret. #RetLivesMatter

Just to say something about this. DKs have worse mobility (pve wise) so there's that.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Just to say something about this. DKs have worse mobility (pve wise) so there's that.

Wraith Walk would like to disagree, I suppose.

[Taeldorian]

Wraith Walk would like to disagree, I suppose.

I said pve wise.

Wraith walk= 70% movement speed for 3 seconds on a 45 second CD. Only unholy can talent for increased speed on wraith walk.

Divine steed= 100% movement speed for 3 seconds on a 45 second CD. Can talent for extra steed.

Talents:
Cavalier: Can use divine steed twice. That's 6 seconds with 100% movement speed or two 3 second 100% movement speed boosts. All specs can use this talent.
Lingering apparition: Increases movement speed of wraith walk by 30% (making it 100%) and lowers the CD by 15 seconds.


Which ones better again? Don't ignore the fact I said pve wise. Divine steed is the better option, even our talent is better than unholys. Can't even mention frost DK who can't alter wraith walk with a talent usefully for pve.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I said pve wise.

Wraith walk= 70% movement speed for 3 seconds on a 45 second CD. Only unholy can talent for increased speed on wraith walk.

Divine steed= 100% movement speed for 3 seconds on a 45 second CD. Can talent for extra steed.

Which ones better again? Don't ignore the fact I said pve wise.

I did not ignore that, which is why I didn't mention DeathGrip and CoI spam.

Dragonslaying-wise, difference between WraithWalk and Derpony is nil, simple as that.
Not to forget about DKs actually being able to do damage from range and having it easier when it comes to swapping targets, therefore alleviating movement issues even more.

DKs have it better overall.

[Taeldorian]

I did not ignore that, which is why I didn't mention DeathGrip and CoI spam.

Dragonslaying-wise, difference between WraithWalk and Derpony is nil, simple as that.
Not to forget about DKs actually being able to do damage from range and having it easier when it comes to swapping targets, therefore alleviating movement issues even more.

DKs have it better overall.

Okay we were discussing mobility. No idea why you're bringing up other shit.

Mobility wise, we have it better than DKs in pve. That's objective. Attacking from range as frost is a dps loss afaik. Even so, we're talking about mobility. Nothing else.

I'm comparing Wraith walk (aka DK mobility) to divine steed (aka our mobility). Comparing these two, divine steed is better. The difference between the two is not nil, 30% movement speed is a lot.

Comparing wraith walk to divine steed and divine steeds wins out.

Overall? Yeah, DKs win. Duh. Mobility wise which is what I'm discussing? We win.

[arrav]

Just out of curiosity, what I-level and how many artifact traits do you guys have in the Ashbringer?

Also, are there any Ret related tips for the Emerald Nightmare?