Kosumoth Orbs Hotfix, September 13 Hotfixes, Warcraft Movie Rewards, Blue Posts

[huldu]

The problem with LFR is that it's too big for random players. Maybe even 10 random players would be too many. We obviously know that 5 players works fine, just look at dungeon finder. The question is where is the roof on where people just stop caring. Another problem with LFR of course is the loot, it's always going to be subpar with everything else. Even if you have close to normal mechanics it just means more wiping and the reason for this is because there are too many random people involved. Instead they went with the most simple solution to make them super easy, but then you have even more issues, with people afking, doing nothing at all and so forth. It's a complete mess, poor loot, too easy and too many random people involved.

At least they are allowing for set items to drop in LFR that's very nice, I didn't even do LFR in wod because it was garbage and totally pointless. Now you could run it on your junk alts to build a set if you're bored at least(with minimal effort involved).

[nihila]

Why can't they just say which ones involve content that hasn't been released yet? Where's the fun in seeing the entire community come together on a wild goose chase looking for clues that don't even exist yet?

I really don't mind mysteries and things for people to work out, and I really don't mind grinding for things if I want them, but I'm not a fan of this "Try anything and/or literally everything and you may or may not be able to find it somewhere.. maybe"

Totally agree with you.

[Deleted]

It's a role in HotS. Not assassin like Garona, but a champion that can do a lot of burst or cc to kill an enemie.

Oh, ok, I forgot that.

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Why can't they just say which ones involve content that hasn't been released yet? Where's the fun in seeing the entire community come together on a wild goose chase looking for clues that don't even exist yet?

I really don't mind mysteries and things for people to work out, and I really don't mind grinding for things if I want them, but I'm not a fan of this "Try anything and/or literally everything and you may or may not be able to find it somewhere.. maybe"

This. "No, no, all the processes for obtaining the appearances are in the game, just some are in content that isn't accessible yet and you don't know which huehuehuehue."

[Kiri]

They removed "Selfless Glory" from "Shattered Satchel of Cooperation". Good job for another stealth fix. If you've gathered them and will to open after certain Artifact Knowledge level, you are screwed and lost 100 + AK lvl Artifact Power.

That's the cost of trying to game the system:P

[Mandible]

In regards to professions seems they also "fixed" getting points from doing the daily WOD crafting (hexweave, primal gem cutting, etc). Since it is greyed out now. Seemed quite reasonable to me to be able to get point from that when you couldn´t get points from anything else in Legion.

[ckooken]

The problem with LFR is that it invites the mindset that you can ignore mechanics. You can stand in abilities that, in certain dungeons or normal mode, would be deemed lethal and not care. I think normal mode is an appropriate entry level for raiding currently. LFR is literally "Do shit all, get free loot".

Its originally intention was for players to see the content. Many did not get to see much of ICC or Ulduar (despite ICC being fairly easy in the last few months of wrath). I remember it being called a tourist mode of raiding, but then decent gear got thrown in with it and once that decision was made it stopped being a "tourist" mode.

If they want it to be a way for the player to see the content. Just make a solo "scenario" version of it. Where it is a do once and done sort of deal.

[Deleted]

That's the cost of trying to game the system:P

Yeah, but the problem is this is another stealth "fix" which really is nerf, again. Any sort of warning will be enough and won't hurt anybody.

[Jester Joe]

Wow! "... there were a lot of WoW devs who played Frost mages...". I've always jokingly said that when salty about a puzzling nerf or ignored issues. To realize it's actually true in some cases, kind of stings. You think Blizzard is this big professional company with processes and chain of command for addressing balance, but.. nope! It's just some guys, debating things like we do in these forums, some classes overrepresented or protected due to personal interests, while others may not have representation at all. That really does answer a lot of questions.

Also: "it's entirely possible they have solved the [LFR] problem by now" -- lol, nope.

Don't ignore what he went on to say.
"so there were always a lot of people to point out your potential mistakes when you try to make a change.".

It wasn't "Hey, we play frost, don't nerf me bro", but more of "Hey, we play frost, here's the issues with that nerf idea".


Also I'd go as far as saying the Hungering Orbs have no CD now, no one's waiting at any of them when I checked last night, and the people who were coming in were trickling in and using it instantly.

[Gadzooks]

The only issue I have with GC, and it's not a burning issue with me, more of a theoretical kind of thing, is I question why only raiding gets "epic" content? I think that's kind of narrow minded, considering the vast number of things that could be done in the game that could be "epic". I think it's kind of an old fashioned concept, and as WoW ages, so does that mindset.

Too much of the game breaks down to a Dr. Seuss Sneetches scenario, the star bellied Sneetches sneering at the blank bellied Sneetches. GC's attitude towards LFR feeds into that exact mindset.

[Deleted]

There must be something wrong with me, as i did not find raiding "epic" when i did raid with friends/PUGs in tbc and with real (though very crappy) guild in WotLK. Only times i felt something positive was when i got loot. I remember when we at last killed one of those mutant bosses (rotface and what-was-it) after many wipes. I was not that excited from the fact that we got it down, but i even let out a yell when it dropped some boots and i won them.

I can't feel any epic, just kill me... now to think, i don't really even want to feel epic. Like i don't want to be some great hero in games. Like "commander" in WoD or whatever in legion.

[Ottius]

You think Blizzard is this big professional company with processes and chain of command for addressing balance, but.. nope! It's just some guys, debating things like we do in these forums, some classes overrepresented or protected due to personal interests, while others may not have representation at all. That really does answer a lot of questions.

\
I don't think I'm gonna discover America for you, but that's the human nature and even the biggest and most professional corporations in the world still consist of humans.

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Fucking glad that he has no say anymore. Take away lfr, and you kill wow.

Just because you personally can't live without LFR, doesn't make you an expert in what will or will not kill WoW. Most people run LFR because they can, and not because they have no other choice. Statistically speaking, WoW had the most subscriber numbers prior to LFR. LFR made those numbers drop and there's a logical explanation to that: people see the end-game content (if you can call LFR that) in a night or two and see no reason to continue their subscription until a new content arrives.

[Shudder]

Fucking glad that he has no say anymore. Take away lfr, and you kill wow.

WoW was fine before LFR it will be fine without it.

[lichbane]

No idea why he considers LFR as a mistake. Only a small percentage of the players ever other to see raids prior to that and there was the perception Blizzard didn't give a damn about the majority by catering for only a minority withheld their most interesting content and storylines.

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Just because you personally can't live without LFR, doesn't make you an expert in what will or will not kill WoW. Most people run LFR because they can, and not because they have no other choice.

That may be your experience (and some at arrogant opinion) But it's not mine. Most people I know never get to see raids because either they're not in the "in crowd" or the elitists in their guild don't consider them good enough or the guild is too small to field enough people interested in raiding. LFR was their ONLY choice.

As for your bizarre their as to why subs when down, there is no proven causal link there at all. Perhaps you need to examine the quality of Cata itself. This was one of the most panned expansions and a lot of people did not enjoy it. The only thing that kept me playing was LFR because I FINALLY got to see the end of the expansion.

It's well known that prior to LFR, less than 10% of the customer base raided or could get into raids. The other 90% are also customers. They were being shafted.

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WoW was fine before LFR it will be fine without it.

For you maybe, but not for the majority. L33T raiders were not the majority.

[Shudder]

No idea why he considers LFR as a mistake. Only a small percentage of the players ever other to see raids prior to that and there was the perception Blizzard didn't give a damn about the majority by catering for only a minority withheld their most interesting content and storylines.

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That may be your experience (and some at arrogant opinion) But it's not mine. Most people I know never get to see raids because either they're not in the "in crowd" or the elitists in their guild don't consider them good enough or the guild is too small to field enough people interested in raiding. LFR was their ONLY choice.

As for your bizarre their as to why subs when down, there is no proven causal link there at all. Perhaps you need to examine the quality of Cata itself. This was one of the most panned expansions and a lot of people did not enjoy it. The only thing that kept me playing was LFR because I FINALLY got to see the end of the expansion.

It's well known that prior to LFR, less than 10% of the customer base raided or could get into raids. The other 90% are also customers. They were being shafted.

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For you maybe, but not for the majority. L33T raiders were not the majority.

The majority were happy or they wouldn't have played.

[Deleted]

\
I don't think I'm gonna discover America for you, but that's the human nature and even the biggest and most professional corporations in the world still consist of humans.

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Just because you personally can't live without LFR, doesn't make you an expert in what will or will not kill WoW. Most people run LFR because they can, and not because they have no other choice. Statistically speaking, WoW had the most subscriber numbers prior to LFR. LFR made those numbers drop and there's a logical explanation to that: people see the end-game content (if you can call LFR that) in a night or two and see no reason to continue their subscription until a new content arrives.

Just because you personally dislike LFR doesn't make you an expert either, mate. And I neither like LFR, nor hate it. It is just a Mode of Gameplay. One I don't even participate in, I need my TS³ for my raiding pleasure.

[lichbane]

The majority were happy or they wouldn't have played.

That doesn't change the fact that the majority were happier when they actually got to see the inside of raids when LFR got in. Blizzard themselve stated back in Wrath that between 5% to 10% participated in raiding.

The only people who seem to have got their nose out of joint regarding LFR were some of the epeen raiders. They believed something was taken away from them by making it more avaliable to others.

[Shudder]

That doesn't change the fact that the majority were happier when they actually got to see the inside of raids when LFR got in. Blizzard themselve stated back in Wrath that between 5% to 10% participated in raiding.

The only people who seem to have got their nose out of joint regarding LFR were some of the epeen raiders. They believed something was taken away from them by making it more avaliable to others.

No, because I continue to sub and play because I enjoy real raiding. The casuals are the ones that were hurt most by LFR. They get the raid they see it and get bored and unsub till the next patch. They didn't do that before when raiding was this thing they could do if they decided to and spend most of their time in dungeons. The fact that LFR exists hurts casual players because blizzard sees it as your end game and they have to do nothing for it. Back in the old days they'd spend a significant amount of time adding a lot of dungeons and continuing to add them with patches. Normal should be nerfed, LFR should be removed and dungeons should be the focus of casual end game like it was in Wrath.

[Deleted]

That doesn't change the fact that the majority were happier when they actually got to see the inside of raids when LFR got in. Blizzard themselve stated back in Wrath that between 5% to 10% participated in raiding.

The only people who seem to have got their nose out of joint regarding LFR were some of the epeen raiders. They believed something was taken away from them by making it more avaliable to others.

Funny how then after the introduction of LFR, we see a steady drop in subscriber numbers. Now correlation doesn't mean causation by any means. But you cannot deny the correlation either.
Even without LFR, starting raiding was never difficult either. You had guilds at every stage in the progression, and merely grouping up with others through 5 mans, you often made connections with people. The only thing it asked from you was to dedicate a time slot to play with other people. New guilds were formed often enough, and guilds generally always had a spot open for a competent player.
If you had done some networking (meaning, did 5 mans with people in the tier above you), it was easy enough to get noticed as a good player.

If you are incapable of that, why the hell are you playing an MMO in the first place?

I personally don't care whether someone has access to the same content as myself but at a lower difficulty. Great for them. And I believe most of the mythic scene has the same mentality. LFR isn't intended for us, so why would we care? If anything, LFR itself is more damaging to the more casual players, because it gives them the illusion of having "finished" the game. Which leads to moaning and bitching of "Oh my god blizz, there is nothing to do, gief new content" a month into a patch cycle, which then might lead to an unsub.
Before that, those same players would still have had a final goal to work towards (also helped that Blzizard at the time still added in 5man content for those players).