Why blizzard nerfed TANKS AOE damage when its the lazy dps fault

[Spiffums]

Meh, not really that relevant, except for DH, since they kinda need the DPS to get their health back up if I'm not mistaken. But it might not make such a difference.

DKs too. The artifact heal is based off damage the talent does. Death Strike's heal is based off damage done.

[Deleted]

Btw, question for the 'tanks shouldn't to dmg' faction: what about healer dps?

[PassingBy]

DKs too. The artifact heal is based off damage the talent does. Death Strike's heal is based off damage done.

Death strike's heal is not based on damage.
The artifact ability is, and some of the leech effects are (heart strike, leech while the DS shield is active etc.)
Death stike's heal is based on the amount of damage you sufferred, not damage done.

[Halyon]

as a dh i dont know how its for others but the damage output signifigantly is diffrent, i pull on aoe pulls around 600k-1 million aoe dps(depends on how big of a pull etc) as a tank its at best at these pulls its not even close.

What i have noticed thou is that prot pallies deals insane amount of damage.

I'm wagering you use Fel Barrage. Yeah I can approach those numbers running that as well, granted, not ilvl 850 yet, but on the way there. I forego barrage, which is my loss, and I ain't complaining about that.

I can mostly beat tanks on aoe damage, and most definately beat them, and most other dps on ST (only monks are mostly better at the same ilvl /shakefist).

I see it as a problem when I see tanks cosistantly being above others (less so for ST, granted), and that makes little sense to me. Tanks are there for taking damage, and managing the mobs etc, not kill them the same way dps does. Not all tanks are equally 'bad' as others, so I'd say the flat 10% nerf is overdone and tactless, but something needs to be done for tuning, so the dps'ers are the dps'ers, and the tanks have a meaningful playstyle that doesn't revolve around being wannabe dps'ers.

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Btw, question for the 'tanks shouldn't to dmg' faction: what about healer dps?

I haven't seen a healer out-perform dps'ers to any meaningful degree? Anecdotal, sure, but somewhat able to pass this time I think, since it ought to have happened by now, unless I've been insanely...er, lucky? To not have seen it happen?

[Spiffums]

They should nerf it by another 10% I can barely feel a difference, I still hit like a truck lol.

Probably because the nerf hasn't went live yet. It's Tuesday with the down time.

[PassingBy]

I haven't seen a healer out-perform dps'ers to any meaningful degree? Anecdotal, sure, but somewhat able to pass this time I think, since it ought to have happened by now, unless I've been insanely...er, lucky? To not have seen it happen?

A good well geared hpally on an aoe trash pull can outdps a bad dps.
Same way a tank outdpses them.

They just don't do it often.

[Spiffums]

When I am in a group with bad players - I am usually top dps, top healing done in a group as a blood dk.
Sometimes even on a single target.

When I am in a group with properly geared and properly playing ppl - the DPS are usually slightly outperforming me on AOE (unless it is a DH or a fire mage - have seen them doing 1,5kk dps on short bursty aoe fights), and then they wipe their asses with me on ST fights.
I think I am averaging 170-190k dps with lust and stuff on fights without much adds, while the guys from my guild are doing ~400k dps.

So a geared tank's dps is less than half of the geared damage dealer.

I can't say that I am outperforming the DPS.

There are some DPS specs that just suck on aoe, but nerfing tank damage won't help them rly.

A big part of bloods mitigation is self healing. They "class fantasy" they hell out of Blood as a Vampire basically and then they nerf it. All this is going to do to the Tanks who have to self heal for their mitigation is piss off the healers when they have to keep an eye on the tank more than they used to.

[Deleted]

A good well geared hpally on an aoe trash pull can outdps a bad dps.
Same way a tank outdpses them.

They just don't do it often.

My hpally mate routinely pulls 250k dps on some ST fights. (e.g.: The Amalgam of Souls in blackrock hold) Why do people have problems with other roles being able to do 60-80% of the damage dps are doing? Obviously if you suck, you will get outdpsed.

If they have to nerf something, they should nerf aoe dmg of some tanks only. But imo even that is ridicioulus.

[PassingBy]

A big part of bloods mitigation is self healing. They "class fantasy" they hell out of Blood as a Vampire basically and then they nerf it. All this is going to do to the Tanks who have to self heal for their mitigation is piss off the healers when they have to keep an eye on the tank more than they used to.

Most of my healing comes from DS, and the harder the content, and the more damage I am getting - the more of this healing is coming from DS, which doesn't scale with damage, but damage taken.

Some of the healing is related to the damage I am doing, but it is less important than the DS heal.

I personally won't mind if they cut the damage, but buff the mastery, since now the shiled is just laughable.

[Snuffleupagus]

No, they shouldn't, because of how the system is set up in wow. Taunt and aggro exists, and they can be adjusted seperately from damage.

Had it been Pathfinder or something, you'd have an argument.

"But it's not very immersive to think that you can hold a bosses attention by doing a quarter of the damage of a DD specced player. I mean, how retarded are these bosses? Better wail on the guy doing fuck all damage to me and ignore the other guys!"

Seems legit that I can convince a person to hit me for 10 minutes by tickling him and saying mean things while you fling fireballs at his head.

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rofl

Then what is the point of dps? Seriously, if tanks do the same damage as dps, then what role does dps have?

It seems that tanks are the ones with fragile egos. So what if they lose damage?

We had plenty of tanks in Vanilla and BC and Wrath without the silly levels of damage. And we made it through dungeons and raids...and most people were perfectly happy with that. In fact, there were a lot more happy with it back then than there is now...

"Bosses do enough damage that a tank needs a healer. They have health pools and enrage timers that ensure you need more damage. They usually do enough AoE damage that more healers are needed."

It usually works best when you don't ignore half of the post you're reaponding to. Maybe if they brought threat back as a mechanic you might have an argument. But they won't, because threat management is too hard for shit players, decreasing the pool of available tanks.

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Again right back why are you so whiny over tank fixes ? Also retarded solution. so anytime someone switches to a tank spec the system should detect it and throw the player out ? Disallow using three tank strategies because you want to go HURRRR DURR IMA DEALING damage ?

Three tank strats are for cutting edge players and shit players, not in between. Blizzard has already demonstrated they don't mind restricting roles (see: Overwatch character stacking, WoW PVP roles)

Check your ego at the door, friend.

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When I am in a group with bad players - I am usually top dps, top healing done in a group as a blood dk.
Sometimes even on a single target.

Filter out Bone Shield when you look at healing. We're not as OP as people think.

[Eapoe]

Btw, question for the 'tanks shouldn't to dmg' faction: what about healer dps?

With the exception of a few specs (disc is the only one I can think of right now) when a healer does damage it means they aren't healing. In some instances, that's okay...very little damage to no damage going out, etc. I've got a healer in my guild that can do some crazy dps on pulls, but that means he's not doing what he's there for.
On the flip side, how do healers feel being outhealed by a tank? Probably a little less significant to the group.
Again, I'm not saying tanks shouldn't do damage, they just shouldn't be competitive with the dps. (See last post for the reasoning).
If you want to be a damage dealer, roll damage, but don't complain because game designers reel players back to their roots and make tanks what they are: meat shields who can pump out a little damage and play with survival abilities.
On a side note: I remember last xpac (and towards the end of this one more than likely) a multitude of tanks getting mad because I could pet tank the dungeon just as well as they could.

[Spunt]

I still don't get why DPS are mad about tank damage. It simply makes the dungeon go faster, what is there not to like?

Guardian Druids are fine outside of large packs + Rage of the Sleeper. If that makes certain DPS incredibly insecure, then I don't know if that really warrants sweeping irrational nerfs.

Okay, then you wouldn't have any problem with every dps being able to tank just as well as tanks. Looky there! No need for you anymore!

[Snuffleupagus]

With the exception of a few specs (disc is the only one I can think of right now) when a healer does damage it means they aren't healing. In some instances, that's okay...very little damage to no damage going out, etc. I've got a healer in my guild that can do some crazy dps on pulls, but that means he's not doing what he's there for.
On the flip side, how do healers feel being outhealed by a tank? Probably a little less significant to the group.
Again, I'm not saying tanks shouldn't do damage, they just shouldn't be competitive with the dps. (See last post for the reasoning).
If you want to be a damage dealer, roll damage, but don't complain because game designers reel players back to their roots and make tanks what they are: meat shields who can pump out a little damage and play with survival abilities.
On a side note: I remember last xpac (and towards the end of this one more than likely) a multitude of tanks getting mad because I could pet tank the dungeon just as well as they could.

If healers are getting mad about tanks outhealing them, they are a little bit retarded. My self heals are exactly that. SELF heals. And they are not self sustaining like in WoD (and even then, in appropriate gear that wasn't the case).

The healer has three other people to worry about, three people who are needed because healer mana is not infinite and mobs must die before damage taken > tank health.

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Okay, then you wouldn't have any problem with every dps being able to tank just as well as tanks. Looky there! No need for you anymore!

Ha ha, you people have clearly never tanked. Good luck taking four tanks into a dungeon when they don't understand AoE and cleave.

Classic.

[Spunt]

If healers are getting mad about tanks outhealing them, they are a little bit retarded. My self heals are exactly that. SELF heals. And they are not self sustaining like in WoD (and even then, in appropriate gear that wasn't the case).

The healer has three other people to worry about, three people who are needed because healer mana is not infinite and mobs must die before damage taken > tank health.

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Ha ha, you people have clearly never tanked. Good luck taking four tanks into a dungeon when they don't understand AoE and cleave.

Classic.

I tanked plenty, boy. I tanked in MC back when threat was a bigger issue than mashing a few buttons and soaring above damage dealers. It's absurd that tanks now expect to have far more durabilty than DPS while doing comparable damage. No tank would like having mages and warlocks tank bosses better than them while pumping out lots of damage, just like no damage dealer wants tanks out damaging everyone while being nearly impossible to kill.

If you want to DPS, you roll a damage dealing spec. Not a tank spec that can dps as well as the actual damage dealers.

[Sluvs]

DKs too. The artifact heal is based off damage the talent does. Death Strike's heal is based off damage done.

And the nerf fucked the Dks up?

[Snuffleupagus]

I tanked plenty, boy. I tanked in MC back when threat was a bigger issue than mashing a few buttons and soaring above damage dealers. It's absurd that tanks now expect to have far more durabilty than DPS while doing comparable damage. No tank would like having mages and warlocks tank bosses better than them while pumping out lots of damage, just like no damage dealer wants tanks out damaging everyone while being nearly impossible to kill.

If you want to DPS, you roll a damage dealing spec. Not a tank spec that can dps as well as the actual damage dealers.

I must congratulate you on knowing how to stack Sunders. Tanking in Vanilla means nothing. I could go on at length about tanking Naxx40, but it's not relevant to the game now. Your experiences with tanking are obviously so long ago (or you've been seriously carried recently) that you don't remember basic mob mechanics. Great idea, let's fight for threat on a dragon!

Threat management is too hard for shit players, so it's not coming back. So tanks need something more meaningful than showing up and tickling the boss' nuts to maintain threat. It used to be about knowing how to tie in active mitigation, but thats gone now.

Also, as stated earlier: "But it's not very immersive to think that you can hold a bosses attention by doing a quarter of the damage of a DD specced player. I mean, how retarded are these bosses? Better wail on the guy doing fuck all damage to me and ignore the other guys!"

[wrv451nlp]

Also, as stated earlier: "But it's not very immersive to think that you can hold a bosses attention by doing a quarter of the damage of a DD specced player. I mean, how retarded are these bosses? Better wail on the guy doing fuck all damage to me and ignore the other guys!"

I always thought the RP to the tank is that they jump right in the faces of the enemy deflecting their attacks while shouting profanity's about their mother, Not giving the targets a chance to attack anyone else,

Threat being how much of a threat the enemy is to the player, Rather than them being threatened by the player

[ShiyoKozuki]

Agree with this, really hoping they don't nerf avenging shield dps otherwise I lose self healing as a result of a "dos" nerf. I don't beat equally geared players single target (prot pally) but I'll do well on adds... So what?

I think though the main goal was to have tanks focus on their mitigation rather than topping dos meters. A tank, after all, should be looking to take as little dmg as possible, not to maximize dps

Blood DK's literally can't minimize damage taken so all they had to manage was DPSing and it's getting nerfed whooo.

[cFortyfive]

Check your ego at the door, friend.

Sure I'll also leave a handkerchief for your tears after the next aoe nerf.

It's absurd

No no it's fine and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with their egos that those imbeciles can't handle not being flat out the most contributing entity on all levels in a fight. It's just for the rp and immersion hurrdurr.

[ShiyoKozuki]

The amount of uninformed opinions on tanks in this thread is just mind boggling.