[Legion] Brusalk's Destro Guide

[Gaidax]

Lord of Flames without a doubt is stronger than Doomguard in any case, best being AoE where it is great, but single target it's also strong.

[Deleted]

Any advice on Wreak Havoc vs Soul Conduit choice for "general purpose" spec, mainly for heroic 5 mans at this point? I'm running SB/Cata/Eradication/GoSac for other dps talents.

I get that Havoc one is silly strong on 2 target cleave, but isn't it kinda worthless on every other situation? 3 or more mobs I switch to AoE and obviously on 1 target Havoc does nothing. And Soul Conduit, while losing Havoc uptime, is still useful in any given situation. So question is: does having vastly better 2 target cleave outweigh having some +dps on any other situation?

[blackops2008]

Any advice on Wreak Havoc vs Soul Conduit choice for "general purpose" spec, mainly for heroic 5 mans at this point? I'm running SB/Cata/Eradication/GoSac for other dps talents.

I get that Havoc one is silly strong on 2 target cleave, but isn't it kinda worthless on every other situation? 3 or more mobs I switch to AoE and obviously on 1 target Havoc does nothing. And Soul Conduit, while losing Havoc uptime, is still useful in any given situation. So question is: does having vastly better 2 target cleave outweigh having some +dps on any other situation?

3 targets siingle target rotation with havoc still better than aoeing.

You should use AOE at 4+ targets.

[Deleted]

3 targets siingle target rotation with havoc still better than aoeing.

You should use AOE at 4+ targets.

Ok, I ques that makes Wreak Havoc pretty clear winner then, as majority of pulls seem to be 3 targets, unless tank is double/triple pulling ofc.

[OmegaV]

3 targets siingle target rotation with havoc still better than aoeing.

You should use AOE at 4+ targets.

I thought it was up to 4 targets that havoc was better and that AOE was for 5+ targets.

[Deleted]

hmm after over 200 hours of testing, it would appear the data in this guide is not 100% accurate.

[Gaidax]

hmm after over 200 hours of testing, it would appear the data in this guide is not 100% accurate.

Point out the inaccuracies and they will be amended, I do not think OP pretends to be some sort last word absolute warlock guru, guide hits many right spots, but it's not perfect for sure.

Feel free to contribute instead of just throwing random sentences like these into the air.

[Screwtape]

So....like the guy before me, I'm in love with my two relics that raise my Immolate crit to 40%...but they are 790 ilevel. I have two 830s but they are the 3% increase to CB and the 2% castrate for incinerate... Suggestions?

Also, do they expect us to port to Dalaran to respec before and between every boss and trash or are we just supposed to use our in between builds?

[Kirroth]

So....like the guy before me, I'm in love with my two relics that raise my Immolate crit to 40%...but they are 790 ilevel. I have two 830s but they are the 3% increase to CB and the 2% castrate for incinerate... Suggestions?

The ilevel is weapon ilevel. The traits are secondary stats. Would you ignore a 40 ilevel weapon upgrade just because it had your prefered secondary stats? Didn't think so.

Traits are something to shop for with relics of equal or nearly equal ilevel. With massive ilevel upgrades primary stat trump all else, especially with weapon upgrades.

[Brusalk]

hmm after over 200 hours of testing, it would appear the data in this guide is not 100% accurate.

If you feel that there are specific inaccuracies, please share!

I don't profess to know absolutely everything about Destro in all circumstances, so if there's something you feel is wrong I'd be happy to take a second look, provided you provide a modicum of proof that something is wrong.

And all I mean by modicum is you should prove that something is worth me taking a second look at to revise. Just because someone says I'm wrong on something isn't enough for me to go take a look at it, because I don't have anywhere near the number of hours in a day to take a look at everything. But, if you're able to provide some sort of proof that gives you cause for believing something is incorrect in the guide, I'm happy to reconsider.

Also, you can see open pending issues or tasks for investigation here, under the issues section.: https://github.com/Brusalk/destro-guide

[striderZA]

hmm after over 200 hours of testing, it would appear the data in this guide is not 100% accurate.

Hmm would need some elaboration, anyone can test things for 200 hours, doesn't mean anything without some more info on what you tested with which methods under which circumstances

[Deleted]

I my guild our Elemental Shaman got the chain lightning Legendary, for the rest it seems every PVPer gets a legendary, Raiders do not.

Why is there a "+1 legendary equipable" Order Hall upgrade at the end? Does that give us all 2 legendaries or something

#saltyAF.

[Orwell7]

Hello everyone, I have a few questions regarding talent interactions.

1; Mana Tap
What does it actually affect? The spells in question:
-Pet Damage?
-Trinket Damage?
-FnB'd Incinerate Damage?
-Sac + Demonic Power?

2; I start to realize that Life Tap + Mana Tap is our real mobility besides Conflagrate and Rifts.

The question is, with Fire and Brimstone talent, 4-6 targets, maximum 30 sec lifespan:

With Mana Tap, I get 10% bonus damage to all FnB'd incinerates.
Is using Backdraft + Conflag for 3x Incinerates worth the GCD of Conflag? (or using Havoc with a GCD, then Conflag-3xInci-Conflag?)
Using Roaring Blaze with Havoc, 2xImmo, 2xConflag worth in this situation if those targets live the full duration vs. pure FnB Incinerate spam?

If we got the best answer for the above, is using Cataclysm better than that if you can only use Cata once?


3; I've noticed with Backdraft + Reverse Entropy, I can cast:
-3x Incinerate
-2x Incinerate + Chaos Bolt
-1x Incinerate + 2x Chaos Bolt, but not 2x Chaos Bolt + 1x Incin
The question is what is the optimal use? I guess its 1x Incin + 2x Chaos Bolt.


4; Eradication - if someone is hard on getting this talent, what is the optimal situation / talents to get full benefit?
What I was thinking about is:
-after the CB hit, you have 6 seconds to get another CB to hit. The usual travel time of Chaos Bolt is a little less than 2 seconds, so you must start casting it at ~4.5 seconds remaining of the debuff (or 4 seconds with Reverse Entropy)
I generally hated the Destro trinket from Archimonde for the same reason; while I can refresh dots just fine, calculating the travel time can be a little messy for me.

With FnB, how much "extra incinerates" do I need to be on par with a perfect play of and Eradication? So, for example, if 3 adds are running in, every Incinerate cast does 3 extra.


While typing these questions I've got even more confused
Thanks for the help!

[SpikeySquad]

Also, do they expect us to port to Dalaran to respec before and between every boss and trash or are we just supposed to use our in between builds?

I have no idea of their expectations but if you really feel the need to respec then do you have the "Tome of the Tranquil Mind"? They are not cheap but that saves hearthing out. Otherwise consider swapping to one of your other specs as that is free. I am not going to change my talents for trash but I may change specs if really needed (usually at this stage I prefer to play the same spec as I will on the boss to "warm up").

[Tread]

I've got a question about trinkets.

I can't seem to find any caster trinket sims and I'm having hard time what trinket to choose as destro. Should I focus on flat stat trinkets? On use trinkets? Or maybe chance for damage trinkets? Just got Devilsaur's Shock Baton and I don't know which trinket to dump.

[janzy]

Hello Destro Warlocks. I wanted to have a discussion with what you think will be the appropriate openning sequence since starting the 3 soul shards. Also are we under the impression that it is probably better to be taking backdraft than roaring blaze still?

1. precast incinerate 4 secs before pull/prepot
2. immolate to hit right at pull.
3. lord of flames/doomguard.
4. grim serv if talented
5. rift
5. conflag
6. chaos bolt

then just carry on with rotation.

what do you all think?

[scrynlock]

Hello Destro Warlocks. I wanted to have a discussion with what you think will be the appropriate openning sequence since starting the 3 soul shards. Also are we under the impression that it is probably better to be taking backdraft than roaring blaze still?

1. precast incinerate 4 secs before pull/prepot
2. immolate to hit right at pull.
3. lord of flames/doomguard.
4. grim serv if talented
5. rift
5. conflag
6. chaos bolt

then just carry on with rotation.

what do you all think?

Depending on your haste levels backdraft is competitive with roaring blaze, once you hit around 10k haste you will want to swap to roaring blaze or start going crit/vers over haste.

CB (prepull) -> immol -> conflag x2 -> summons -> Channel Demonfire -> Rift -> CB

Has been the opener I have been going with (using RB+eradication) although im not sure if it is "optimal"

[Roberek]

I think the idea that backdraft is "better" than roaring blaze at low haste values needs to be seriously reevaluated. Over the course of multiple mythics and a dummy testing session I've seen a NOTICABLE increase in DPS with roaring blaze, this being before I got haste on the majority of my items.

From a theorycrafting perspective I see it as the most reliable talent of the two. Getting the most out of backdraft would require good soul shard procs (to be casting chaos bolt instead of incinerate) while a well managed roaring blaze is consistent with the cooldown of conflag. Also consider that movement will reduce the benefits of backdraft, while your immolate will still keep ticking.

@scrynlock: I like to start with CB -> Rift -> Immol x2 (for the longer duration) -> conflag x2 -> summons

If you leave rift for the end its likely your eradication buff will be gone. Get the timer on that thing rolling ASAP IMO, its a super valuable movement friendly damage.
I certainly wouldn't put it after channel demonfire (which I don't use because havoc is super valuable on both trash and bosses with adds).

[janzy]

I think the idea that backdraft is "better" than roaring blaze at low haste values needs to be seriously reevaluated. Over the course of multiple mythics and a dummy testing session I've seen a NOTICABLE increase in DPS with roaring blaze, this being before I got haste on the majority of my items.

From a theorycrafting perspective I see it as the most reliable talent of the two. Getting the most out of backdraft would require good soul shard procs (to be casting chaos bolt instead of incinerate) while a well managed roaring blaze is consistent with the cooldown of conflag. Also consider that movement will reduce the benefits of backdraft, while your immolate will still keep ticking.

@scrynlock: I like to start with CB -> Rift -> Immol x2 (for the longer duration) -> conflag x2 -> summons

If you leave rift for the end its likely your eradication buff will be gone. Get the timer on that thing rolling ASAP IMO, its a super valuable movement friendly damage.
I certainly wouldn't put it after channel demonfire (which I don't use because havoc is super valuable on both trash and bosses with adds).

I have been seeing around the warlock discord channel that CB prepull is one of the leading thoughts. and I agree that if you are taking RB immo x2 is the way to go to get full duration and get 3 stacks of conflag in its lifetime. are people starting to consider CDF better than soul conduit? I always thought it was on par or worse with SC being more versatile.

[Jaman]

I've got a question about trinkets.

I can't seem to find any caster trinket sims and I'm having hard time what trinket to choose as destro. Should I focus on flat stat trinkets? On use trinkets? Or maybe chance for damage trinkets? Just got Devilsaur's Shock Baton and I don't know which trinket to dump.

http://pastebin.com/Xjy5wV0q (Single target Patchwerk trinket sims for Destruction and Demonology).

- - - Updated - - -

I think the idea that backdraft is "better" than roaring blaze at low haste values needs to be seriously reevaluated. Over the course of multiple mythics and a dummy testing session I've seen a NOTICABLE increase in DPS with roaring blaze, this being before I got haste on the majority of my items.

Gahddo has been saying the same thing on Discord - he's run sims to show RB as better than BD at all haste levels, even on single targets.