No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[4dahorde]

It seems they are relying on communication in short bursts which is still an improvement from early WoD. But the fact they can't relay what their plans are for Legion n 2017 indicates that flying is still going to be in limbo. If the first raid tier isn't set to come out till early 2017, we are looking at the possibility that patch 7.2 will be a summer release as patch 6.2 almost made the deadline of a late spring release but missed it by a few days.

So flying possibly not being part of patch 7.2 is going to be very interesting how the playerbase reacts. But from my view when they said mid expansion they communicated that a year waiting for flight is acceptable in their eyes. As a customer though I said that is not acceptable and walked away from a bad deal like that. If you have to do constant arm twisting as a customer for a service being provided then by definition that is bad service.

SOOOO many assumptions are being made in this post. I lost count. First it was flying, they gave you flying, now people are bitching about WHEN the flying is coming and HOW it is coming? really? You people need to get out more, or find a different game if these types of things are that big of deal for you.

Also, they DON'T OWE YOU SHIT in terms of 'communication'. They can make the game, and only ever release the notes on what they changed, hell, they don't even have to do that. Waiting a year IS acceptable, unless the only enjoyment you get from this game is flying around, and as I and others have said, if this is the only thing that makes you enjoy this game or hell, this type of game, then just move along.

To say they have bad service because their vision of the game, and your vision are different does NOT mean they have bad customer service. You don't have twirst their arm to get information, they don't owe you any of it...you should be happy they give you any information. This would still be a VERY succesful game if you never heard anything from them, only the bitchy, never happy crowd is the only one that seems to care if they get a response or a change to what they want, and if EVERY single one of those people left, it would still be a fun and successful game. Don't forget that. Stop expecting them to bow before you and acknowledge/change everything you think they should, because you think they should just because you pay them $15/mo to play a game. They don't owe you shit.

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There's nothing to justify it's restriction.

Except it is THEIR game, and THEY want it to be experienced in a certain way, which is their right. Like it or don't, but to ASSUME there is no justification just because you don't agree with it, doesn't change the fact that there IS a justification.

[segara82]

Nice to see that flying is such a hot topic that this thread fell to the third page. Anyhow, the fact that you consider tangible world scenery "purposeless" is really a testament to how fly babies perceive the world. It's a really poor argument when the only thing you want out of this game is to objective hop with no in-between context.

Because IMO it makes little to no sense that these constructions, drakes and monsters we have gathered in the last 8 years once again forgot to use their wings/engines. The terrain, fauna and flora is not any strong suit for WoW, where you can sometimes ride through the vegetation without problems and at other places the smallest roots surfacing near a tree stop your heavy destrier (compared in RL such big horses weight above 800 kgs/1700 pounds) instantly, firmly nailing you in place.
Add to that the still existing gaps in terrain and/or between buidlings when you fall into you have to hearth out of since you can no longer just fly back straight up.

And the auto-leveling was nice the first time since it does not matter which zone you do first. But once you hit max it gets only tedious and annoying that nearly every lifeform on those isles sees you as his dinner and attacks you. Maybe even stun/dismount you while offering nothing except grey trash in return. I really like the pebble analogy from earlier, and Blizz not telling us exactly how and when we can get rid of it.

Blizzard further insulting/teasing us with:
Khadgar complaining about saddle sores, prefering the flight form instead (hello to all the druids out there NOT able to use theirs);
the Dalaran Flightmaster sitting us onto our favourite mounts;
various NPCs and monsters flying around;
sitting us on several of those monsters/NPCs to fly around and do stuff;
a whistle that once outside sends a pick-up to get me to the nearest flightmaster;
...

Hell, give us a few (group-)quests to disable some summoning circles and space ships hanging around the isles to get flying back. That should keep us busy, enforce team/guild-work and makes thematically sense. But stupidly grinding rep with the factions after we did all their regular quests just screams (time) gating to me. After all the bullshit i did for them through their story quests they should not see me as friendly or honored, you should minimum be exalted if not revered. Hell you did shit that they could not so they better worship the ground i walk on.


Hopefully Blizzard does something with the reins you can make to stay mounted to finally bring mounted combat to the ground and into the air. Work with that, give us the chance to get up to those gankers hiding in the clouds and show them what's what.

[SirCowdog]

Except it is THEIR game, and THEY want it to be experienced in a certain way, which is their right. Like it or don't, but to ASSUME there is no justification just because you don't agree with it, doesn't change the fact that there IS a justification.

Wow...this again. I'm glad I'M the fanatic here. :/

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Nice to see that flying is such a hot topic that this thread fell to the third page. Anyhow, the fact that you consider tangible world scenery "purposeless" is really a testament to how fly babies perceive the world. It's a really poor argument when the only thing you want out of this game is to objective hop with no in-between context.

Hey, thanks for bumping it back to the front page then!

Tangible world scenery in order to set the mood and atmosphere of an area in the game is one thing. Placing such scenery in a way that makes it downright irritating to get from place to place is another.

As for objective hopping, no, that's NOT what I want at all, as I've been pretty damn clear about in the past. What I want is for the intervening spaces to actually be relevant, and to USE flying instead of ignoring that it exists. Between the glidersand all the teleports, hearths, whistles, portals, and summons available what we have right now IS nothing but objective hopping.

You should maybe spend a little less time trying so hard to hate flying, and a little more time trying to understand. Then maybe you wouldn't need to create flaws and holes in the arguments that aren't actually there.

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Blizzard further insulting/teasing us with:
Khadgar complaining about saddle sores, prefering the flight form instead (hello to all the druids out there NOT able to use theirs);
the Dalaran Flightmaster sitting us onto our favourite mounts;
various NPCs and monsters flying around;
sitting us on several of those monsters/NPCs to fly around and do stuff;
a whistle that once outside sends a pick-up to get me to the nearest flightmaster;

Don't forget the Tear-Stained Flight Manual from WoD, and the Arrakoa asking "What are we without the sky?". Not to mention the NPCs in highmountain with their voice line: "What a nice day to fly!" even when they aren't flightmasters.

Someone at Blizzard really needs to grow out of puberty. I'm REALLY hoping that whoever it is that has it out for flying is one of the guys retiring from Blizzard.

[Mafic]

Well it's good you were able to have fun. My problem in beta was that no flying was like a pebble in my shoe. It's not severely painful at first, but because it just never stops it eventually gets too annoying and intolerable.

I am still baffled by the idea that it was weird for players to expect flying.... Blizzard put flying in the game. Blizzard left flying in the game for 8 years and added it to three additional expacs before deciding it was evil. While I am not sitting in my house wishing for jetpacks to be invented, if jetpacks were real and I had one for the last 8 years then someone decided I couldn't have one anymore and had to sit in traffic, I'd be pretty angry.

The alpha showed they were dedicated to ground and pound game play and skinner boxer gear system..aka time wasters. If he had flying at launch and a real gear system where players can progress without RNG giving you duplicates rings/necklaces than I would say Legion would have turned out differently.

But given their track record, flying isn't going to be an issues they will allow to be at the fore front for they are afraid that players in unison will unite once more to tell them they reject their no flying vision.

This is why a "mid expansion" release of flying isn't going to fly.

[rebecca191]

Waiting a year IS acceptable.

Maybe for you it is. Other people may feel differently and vote with their wallets. You can only decide what is acceptable for yourself, not for anyone else. I have zero interest in playing Legion for a year without flying. It is not an acceptable way to spend my time and money. In the beta, I already got to do the majority of content I'd be willing to do without flying. The other things I would do, like pet battles, archeology, and completing lots of world achievements like killing all rares, fishing achievements, all reps exalted, collecting all toys, etc are not things I am interested in doing without flying. Blizzard can have my money when flying is on the PTR. Until then, I'm done with WoW and have zero reason to spend money on Legion at this time.

[Dormie]

You people refusing to accept that flying and no-flying cannot coexist does not mean you aren't trying to make people play your way like you accuse others of doing.

[bufferunderrun]

You people refusing to accept that flying and no-flying cannot coexist does not mean you aren't trying to make people play your way like you accuse others of doing.

that is not true blizzard could make them coexist

[rebecca191]

It can coexist like in MoP. Some max level content allowed flying, and some max level content did not allow flying.

[SirCowdog]

You people refusing to accept that flying and no-flying cannot coexist does not mean you aren't trying to make people play your way like you accuse others of doing.

It doesn't even take that much to accomplish. Buff ground mounts a little bit, change flying speed to be more in line, mix quest areas with scattered anti-flight mechanics such as turrets, dismounting enemies in the air, grappling enemies. Add more indoor quest areas, such as caves, castles, or inside airships and the like.

And that's just what the community can come up with, much less what Blizzard could create if they put their minds to it.

[rebecca191]

Honestly they didn't have to think up anything new, they could have just gone back to the MoP model and avoided another year+ of forum angst and unhappiness from those pro flight players who still play. I saw very few complaints about that model at the time, other than people who were annoyed their alts couldn't fly while leveling.

[Dhrizzle]

It doesn't even take that much to accomplish. Buff ground mounts a little bit, change flying speed to be more in line, mix quest areas with scattered anti-flight mechanics such as turrets, dismounting enemies in the air, grappling enemies. Add more indoor quest areas, such as caves, castles, or inside airships and the like.

And that's just what the community can come up with, much less what Blizzard could create if they put their minds to it.

Wouldn't those gimmicks just annoy the "pro-flight" people who are complaining that "pointless" terrain and mobs are wasting their time? Also wouldn't it take development time away from other aspects of the game just to focus on something the devs have decided they're not keen making?

Honestly they didn't have to think up anything new, they could have just gone back to the MoP model and avoided another year+ of forum angst and unhappiness from those pro flight players who still play. I saw very few complaints about that model at the time, other than people who were annoyed their alts couldn't fly while leveling.

Would you balance the game around flying players so "ground-and-pound" players have their progress slowed to a crawl, or balance around ground mounts so "fly-or-cry" players quickly run out of things to do?

Also, do you really think Blizzard should develop the game based on whatever the forums have chosen to focus their whine on? For example.should LFR be removed ed just because it causes forum angst?

[Deleted]

They could have easily added some gimmicks to ground mounts to make the time without flight more interesting. You are riding a rare mount from a raid, an intimidating large animal or a predator? Then normal mobs get scared of it and don't attack you that often (=increased aggro range). Or make some mounts be intimidating to some kind of mobs (like, predators being intimidating to herbivores, undead mounts to humanoids, dragons to carnivores etc.) Also, having more mount which allow you to harves resources without dismounting would be cool (like the Sky Golem)

At the moment, I only use a Sky Golem with my herbalists if I know that I will not cross water in the next time, or I use my Waterstrider. In Dalaran, I can use any mount, but out there, I am very limited because some perks are just too good to be ignored. Of course, this is the main reason I got these mounts. With flying mounts, they are at least all equal somehow (besides the Sky Golem for herbalists, but this stays the same without flying).

I also think that with the current state of the game and scaling mobs, the aggro range should be affected by your item level. If we can recognize elites for what they are, the mobs should recognise a raid-geared or mythic-dungeon-geared player as well and avoid attacking them more than the freshly dinged or leveling character. But this will not happen. It's always easier to remove things than to expand the existing system. This is the main reason why flying got removed, because it's easier than to create the world and quest objectives with it in mind. They either have to save manpower (for whatever reasons, since their team got increased), or save development time on the open world (which fits nicely with the repetition of leveling quests as world quests, and increased tedium in many things).

While the open world content in Legion is way better than in WoD, the travel is only bearable with whistle and toys, even with all the nerfs it's still better than nothing. But why do we have to travel the same roads for the thousandth time at all? Please tell me, where is the incredible gain in gameplay and immersion in a fantasy world? Are we simulating "World of Commutecraft" or what?

[Deleted]

It doesn't even take that much to accomplish. Buff ground mounts a little bit, change flying speed to be more in line, mix quest areas with scattered anti-flight mechanics such as turrets, dismounting enemies in the air, grappling enemies. Add more indoor quest areas, such as caves, castles, or inside airships and the like.

And that's just what the community can come up with, much less what Blizzard could create if they put their minds to it.

And how long will it take before ppl start screaming about them being shot down? Just see how ppl whine about daze.
Dont get me wrong, like the ide with Anti-air missles and shit.

The focus would just shift towards something else.

[rebecca191]

I think going back to the MoP model is better because some zones would allow flying and some zones would not allow flying and be designed around using a ground mount. So basically, offering different content for both groups. There would be no need to balance mount utility.

[Deleted]

Would you balance the game around flying players so "ground-and-pound" players have their progress slowed to a crawl, or balance around ground mounts so "fly-or-cry" players quickly run out of things to do?

For you little funny bunny-rabbit.... Cut that bullshit out, right now!. There is NO such thing as "the majority of people run out of things to do". because you don't get to know how fast or slow the majority really is. And i am talking about the REAL majority of players, not the "sorry bunch of us" who is here on MMO-Champion or in the official forum.

"Running out of things to do" doesn't apply to the majority of players and is not an argument at all.... maybe if you seriously lack headmeat and think that people posting on the forums are somewhere near the majority of all the players. But no, for intelligent people it is NOT an argument, because it is simply not true.

People running out of things to do that they like? Sure. But general running out of things to do is for hardcore nerds only. And those are in a very tiny minority.... far far far far away from the majority of all the players.

So please stop playing stupid.... i know you are not. :-P

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Edit:
Just for teh record, the numbers from MMO-Champion:

Members: 505,722
Active Members: 24,281

Not even IF everybody registered here is still playing the game and WOULD be out of things to do..... according to the last thing we know those are less than 10% of total player population that is currently playing.

[Mafic]

I think going back to the MoP model is better because some zones would allow flying and some zones would not allow flying and be designed around using a ground mount. So basically, offering different content for both groups. There would be no need to balance mount utility.

The MoP model requires they release new land masses for each content patch. They tried to cut corners with WoD by having Tanaan in the middle of the content and inaccessible till a later date They are doing something similar with Legion but we have to wait and see if this pans out.

Flying will be hotly contested issue for many months, especially with 7.1 launches with no flying or part 2 of the patchfinder. .

[quras]

And how long will it take before ppl start screaming about them being shot down? Just see how ppl whine about daze.
Dont get me wrong, like the ide with Anti-air missles and shit.

The focus would just shift towards something else.

When I compare what you said to TBC, it was brought up. The birds and cannons but in the end the anti-air areas were just superior for interaction. There were complaints sure but nothing like the backlash blizzard got for removing flying the way they have.

The focus wouldn't shift all that much as you could still fly in areas that didn't have that mechanic. Daze is everywhere and given to mobs that are so far below you, you should be able to just tramp over them.

The two really just don't really compare when we talk about ground mounts and daze and areas with anti-air.

[Wallack]

I have so many flying mounts, some bought from the shop ... I love how good it looks when I'm flying them... I would allow flying everywhere in the broken isles except Suramar for example once you reach 110 and complete your class campaign for example (more like MoP model) or even if you want a big ass achievement like WoD but disallow flying completely ... give me my money back!! nah, just kidding but I don't see why we can have flying if no-fliers can still no fly.

[DeadmanWalking]

Except it is THEIR game, and THEY want it to be experienced in a certain way, which is their right. Like it or don't, but to ASSUME there is no justification just because you don't agree with it, doesn't change the fact that there IS a justification.

I'm glad you will be there when the elitists are screaming about LFR ruining the game, because that is the way they want the game experienced, which is their right. Or does that only apply to the things you personally like?

[SirCowdog]

And how long will it take before ppl start screaming about them being shot down? Just see how ppl whine about daze.
Dont get me wrong, like the ide with Anti-air missles and shit.

The focus would just shift towards something else.

People will ALWAYS find something little to complain about. But that number will be infinitesimally small, on the same level as people calling for nerfs against the class that just beat them in PVP. Did people complain about birds in Skettis or Ogri'la? Sure. But not in any serious way. This isn't anything that should be a concern to anyone.

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Wouldn't those gimmicks just annoy the "pro-flight" people who are complaining that "pointless" terrain and mobs are wasting their time? Also wouldn't it take development time away from other aspects of the game just to focus on something the devs have decided they're not keen making?

No, see above. You're trying too hard to find a flaw in the argument. Some of those things, such as turrets and dismounting birds do that, but those things wouldn't be EVERYWHERE like the packs of mobs are on the ground. That's the difference between the complaints. It's also the point I keep trying to make about keeping obstacles relevant to the quest area instead of spamming stuff everywhere without thought.

Lets use Suramar as an example, since people seem to think it's the best thing since sliced bread. You get an ability which lets you bypass almost all the enemies, with a few randomly placed baddies that can knock you out of your ability. Do people complain about that? Sure! Is it still implemented in a way that keeps things interesting for most everyone else? Yes! Flying is no different. The only thing keeping flying from being something amazing is a petty, unthinking hatred based on false premise and ignorance.

Everything costs dev time. The question has always been striking a balance between what the devs want to do and what the players are willing to accept. Right now no-flying is being forced onto everyone whether they want it or not. That's mitigated by the game being in a better state than it's ever been, of course, but that doesn't mean it couldn't still be handled better.