Haste breakpoint for Enhance in Legion

[Deleted]

How are people going to take you seriously when you completely ignore the subject of the thread and make an inane comment that contributes nothing to the conversation?

How about you proof your "Guesscrafting" when multiple people and even people who have way more credibility like wordup, have dismissed your statement before you even began writing it. You're wrong, stop trying to justify your stat weighting with poor guess work.

[Larynx]

I'm not sure how seriously anyone should be taking the expert opinion of Professor Expert when he's unable to figure out that 23+12+3 is not 48.

[Imnick]

I'm not sure how seriously anyone should be taking the expert opinion of Professor Expert when he's unable to figure out that 23+12+3 is not 48.

Yeah it's pretty obvious we are just being trolled at this point, funny while it lasted though.

[Professor Expert]

How about you proof your "Guesscrafting" when multiple people and even people who have way more credibility like wordup, have dismissed your statement before you even began writing it. You're wrong, stop trying to justify your stat weighting with poor guess work.

Wordup has no credibility among anyone who actually plays the game. Maybe braindead trolls find his tedious rants "helpful", but with so many "bad" enhancement shaman running around it's doubtful that he's making any inroads. Oh, but you think it's a matter of "credibility" and not a matter of "try it for yourself and see what happens". That's why the best you can ever hope for is almost mediocre.

I'm not sure how seriously anyone should be taking the expert opinion of Professor Expert when he's unable to figure out that 23+12+3 is not 48.

That one went over your head didn't it? You know, the part where he made up numbers that were pretty much the exact opposite of the example I provided so I responded with made-up math to complement his made up numbers.

Bottom line is, the points raised are all valid. Nobody is "right" or "wrong", nor is there any "optimal" combination of stats that significantly perform better than the other.

Yeah it's pretty obvious we are just being trolled at this point, funny while it lasted though.

Hey, you still haven't actually disputed or refuted anything I said. You're just making things up...I guess that passes for "credible" among your ilk. This isn't the huntard forums, btw. Might find that playing a class where most of the work is done by your pets is more inline with your abilities.

[Deleted]

Wordup has no credibility among anyone who actually plays the game. Maybe braindead trolls find his tedious rants "helpful", but with so many "bad" enhancement shaman running around it's doubtful that he's making any inroads. Oh, but you think it's a matter of "credibility" and not a matter of "try it for yourself and see what happens". That's why the best you can ever hope for is almost mediocre.



That one went over your head didn't it? You know, the part where he made up numbers that were pretty much the exact opposite of the example I provided so I responded with made-up math to complement his made up numbers.

Bottom line is, the points raised are all valid. Nobody is "right" or "wrong", nor is there any "optimal" combination of stats that significantly perform better than the other.



Hey, you still haven't actually disputed or refuted anything I said. You're just making things up...I guess that passes for "credible" among your ilk. This isn't the huntard forums, btw. Might find that playing a class where most of the work is done by your pets is more inline with your abilities.

Stop being such a giant asshole.

The entire shaman community, including myself, think you're wrong. Simcraft thinks you're wrong. The most knowledgeable person in this community thinks you're wrong and doesn't even know you exist.

Just take your guesscraft and dump it elsewhere. Leave this thread, and don't bother coming back.

[Karlz0rz]

Professor Expert, can I have your armoury link?
I'm curious about how your character sims against mine.

[Professor Expert]

Stop being such a giant asshole.

The entire shaman community, including myself, think you're wrong. Simcraft thinks you're wrong. The most knowledgeable person in this community thinks you're wrong and doesn't even know you exist.

Just take your guesscraft and dump it elsewhere. Leave this thread, and don't bother coming back.

Oh look, a nobody thinks there is a "community" here and that he is their spokesperson. lol

If you don't have anything worthwhile to add, and you don't, STFU and stay out of it.

Professor Expert, can I have your armoury link?
I'm curious about how your character sims against mine.

No bud, you're not trolling an armory. And whatever it "sims" to wouldn't matter, I'd still beat you.

[Karlz0rz]

Oh look, a nobody thinks there is a "community" here and that he is their spokesperson. lol

If you don't have anything worthwhile to add, and you don't, STFU and stay out of it.



No bud, you're not trolling an armory. And whatever it "sims" to wouldn't matter, I'd still beat you.

Why so hostile? I am genuinely curious as to what your character sims as.
Because IF you have found something that no one else has, then I'd like to know so that I can do better.

[Deleted]

Well the default profile shows 63% of our damage as frost/fire/nature damage. But it misses the 2nd trait so i tgink it is more like 67%.
Many sims dont include the 2nd gold trait with fire/nature damage on SS. Thats why mastery isnt that high valued. Once you have 2 gold traits mastery is very fominant. I have about 10k mastery and 4k haste and mastery still is ahead. But i am currently aiming for more haste because 4k haste feels slow.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh and btw i have currently 9.8k mastery and 0.5 versatility. When i sim 5.3k mastery and 5.0k versatility i lose over 20k dps... thats nearly 10% dps. And that IS significant.

Mastery is MUCH better than versatility.

[wordup]

I think 2:3 ratio is outdate, it was before mastery nerfed.

Remember they nerfed the chance to pro windfurry by half from mastery but increase the default windfurry chance.

This mean the synergy between mastery and haste is weaken and most of mastery value come from +50% nature damage buff instead of +3% windfury chance.

Haste, in othet term do make huge difference, because it reduce cool down on everything plus reduce GCD too which make rotation so smooth.

If you use sim to get stat weight, it will show the value of mastery and haste almost equal.

The 2:3 ratio was generated a little before the pre-patch, which was WAY after the nerf to Mastery scaling happened.

[Deleted]

so whats the truth now ? 60-70% Haste of Mastery ? or Full Mastery ?

[Deleted]

With Baton and SFF and 2 gold artifact traits you can go all out mastery>haste.

[vichnaiev]

With Baton and SFF and 2 gold artifact traits you can go all out mastery>haste.

I simmed my character with Baton vs Spiked Counterweight and SC came ahead. My char has 73% mastery. Is the sim bugged, not calculating Baton correctly? I used the "ask mr robot" one, as simcraft simply stops responding before I can even start it.

[Deleted]

Old Simcraft version had a bug for Spiked Counterweight. It assumed the proc had 36rppm but it had only 20rppm.

Spiked counterweight is bad long fights. It is pretty strong for 30 sec long fights though.

Just pick up the new simcraft version.

[Deleted]

Oh look, a nobody thinks there is a "community" here and that he is their spokesperson. lol

If you don't have anything worthwhile to add, and you don't, STFU and stay out of it.



No bud, you're not trolling an armory. And whatever it "sims" to wouldn't matter, I'd still beat you.

So why haven't you already? You're wrong but keep trying to deny it

[Professor Expert]

Well the default profile shows 63% of our damage as frost/fire/nature damage. But it misses the 2nd trait so i tgink it is more like 67%.
Many sims dont include the 2nd gold trait with fire/nature damage on SS. Thats why mastery isnt that high valued. Once you have 2 gold traits mastery is very fominant. I have about 10k mastery and 4k haste and mastery still is ahead. But i am currently aiming for more haste because 4k haste feels slow.

Oh and btw i have currently 9.8k mastery and 0.5 versatility. When i sim 5.3k mastery and 5.0k versatility i lose over 20k dps... thats nearly 10% dps. And that IS significant.

Mastery is MUCH better than versatility.

Why didn't you sim with 9.8k versatility and 0.5 mastery?

So why haven't you already? You're wrong but keep trying to deny it

For you to say I'm "wrong", you'd have to have been right about something and you weren't. You have yet to make a worthwhile contribution to the thread. Some of us are waiting...

[Deleted]

Why didn't you sim with 9.8k versatility and 0.5 mastery?



For you to say I'm "wrong", you'd have to have been right about something and you weren't. You have yet to make a worthwhile contribution to the thread. Some of us are waiting...

You're welcome to read any of reply from any other person in this thread along with wordup's guides, it seems you don't know how shaman works and that's really not our problem. The problem is when people like you go around spreading misinformation, but whatever, i'll keep doing above average dps while you jump down around in the bottom with your vers build :^)

I'm not gonna bother replying to this anymore until you provide either an armory link so we can tell you why you're wrong or you can show sims proving that vers is better than mastery, but that will take a good while.

[Professor Expert]

You're welcome to read any of reply from any other person in this thread along with wordup's guides, it seems you don't know how shaman works and that's really not our problem. The problem is when people like you go around spreading misinformation, but whatever, i'll keep doing above average dps while you jump down around in the bottom with your vers build :^)

Sorry to break it to you but some random nerd on the web who wrote a guide or two doesn't become an "authority" on a game. It's just one person's opinion. He's entitled to his and I'll maintain mine.

So you didn't sim 9.8K versatility and 0.5K mastery? Then why did you feel the need to reply. You're spreading misinformation by directing people to hang their hats on the assessment of one player...and you love to ignore all sorts of variables, as if DPS is the only thing that matters. It's not. We both know it...but keep pretending it is so your shitty argument seems vaguely legitimate.

I'm not gonna bother replying to this anymore until you provide either an armory link so we can tell you why you're wrong or you can show sims proving that vers is better than mastery, but that will take a good while.

A troll is asking me to feed a troll so that he can continue trolling. They don't even try to hide it anymore... lol

[MetalJacx]

I miss the elitist jerks forums. As Professor Expert would have been banned by now. Also for someone quite on the righteous path I think you are kind of obligated to post your armory at this point. As i think the community would all love to sim there build out against your. If you are not afraid of being wrong then i am not sure what the issue is.
Also in the EJ forums technically this post would get banned as well as it doesn't contribute anything useful.

[gunner007]

So I swapped my mastery/haste gear to mastery/vers (harmonious, high on versatility), these are the results I get from all simulations.

Mastery/Haste Build 19% haste/72% mastery
Versatility/Mastery Build: 27% versatility, 45% mastery (all the versatility on gear (short of pure versatility stats))

Mastery/Haste: http://postimg.org/image/p06bmcv45/ (286,673 DPS)
Vers/Mastery: http://postimg.org/image/mbpnxb7qd/ (263,190 DPS)
Full Vers: http://postimg.org/image/mug1t7io9/ (250,091 DPS)

Simming that level of gear change (851-852 with 21 Artifact Points) is about 10% less (9.1 to be exact), if I lower it even more (pure vers and almost no mastery, it falls to 250,000 DPS. Almost a 15% loss. Simcraft seems to be about the same give or take 1-2K DPS in either direction.

I could understand vers from a damage taken persepctive, but don't see how it'd outrank your DPS seeing as we did just fine with almost 0 in HFC and prior. (Healing isn't all that great due to our weak self-heal (200->253K (extra 53K on self-heal))

The more versatility I stack, the worse the sims come out. Multi-target gets even worse with versatility stacked. Am I missing something?