Why blizzard nerfed TANKS AOE damage when its the lazy dps fault

[Tart]

Tanks are there to keep threat and not for damage ffs.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Tanks are there to keep threat and not for damage ffs.

This hasn't been true for years.

[CaptainV]

I'm Ret and I can't keep up with DH's.


I know, I know. The spec is amazing and I'm just "bad".

Ret is in an abysmally bad place thanks to the holy power system basically making it a ramp up dps and for unnecessary reasons.

Which is probably why Prot and Holy out DPS ret primarily because they dont have the holy power problem anymore. Yes, the "healer" is doing more DPS than Ret can max.

Thats when you -know- theres a problem, Rets single target -proc- based system is just shit right now and honestly needs a complete rework unless they significantly ramp up the damage that single target ret can do to the point literally -no- class can equalise it.

Thats kinda the problem here in general though, the DPS specs as it stands are either AoE or Single Target, and if your the latter, you tend to underperform because even at your best, your not doing enough.

Sooo, yeah, Rets DPS is terrible right now, dont blame yourself.

[skannerz22]

Let's take 4 tanks and a healer into mythics! Could be awesome

it should be a requirement for some people
3 retard groups kept kicking me when i was healing court of stars

all of them were standing in shit and not clearing the correct trash first before pulling other stuff so people run into it during run backs after they died standing in shit

i did my best to heal the noobs only to get kicked
the 4th group i was tanking and made sure we did stuff properly

[Deleted]

I know what you're trying to say, but Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, haven't figured out what the "tank gameplay" is, apart from standing still, taking damage (and switching at x-stacks, if tanking raids) - it's not very engaging, so this time around they decided tanks could actually try to do a bit ("non-trivial amount") of DPS while standing there. Blood DK's have had this playstyle for a while, but in Legion, all tanks got it.

Tanks are *not* just supposed to tank anymore. Their gameplay is part tanking, part dps. Over time, I'm sure we'll see Healers getting the same treatment - Disc is probably a nice test for this.

Seems Blizzard is just trying to tune in the damage to that "non-trivial amount" ballpark, it's a bit high at the moment.

This has been the case since MoP where most tank classes could deal a decent amount of DPS.
Healers same story and especially now in Legion. I've tanked dungeons where the Holy Paladin and the Resto Druid did great DPS.

[Halyon]

I know what you're trying to say, but Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, haven't figured out what the "tank gameplay" is, apart from standing still, taking damage (and switching at x-stacks, if tanking raids) - it's not very engaging, so this time around they decided tanks could actually try to do a bit ("non-trivial amount") of DPS while standing there. Blood DK's have had this playstyle for a while, but in Legion, all tanks got it.

Tanks are *not* just supposed to tank anymore. Their gameplay is part tanking, part dps. Over time, I'm sure we'll see Healers getting the same treatment - Disc is probably a nice test for this.

Seems Blizzard is just trying to tune in the damage to that "non-trivial amount" ballpark, it's a bit high at the moment.

The problem is the way tanking even works, but if it's changed, the pool of tanks will be reduced when lower-skilled players can't handle the pressure. Say that threat is based on the skills you use, and as tank, you get a bonus to the threat, but said threat decays faster, like it was your secondary resource. Could always add more ads or something that have to be picked up runningly, then you most certainly have something to do, maybe even too much.

Taking an example like Pathfinder, there's no 'tank' per say, there's just the guy who hits you really fucking hard with a McLargeHuge hammer, and he will shove it were the sun doesn't shine unless you go through him first, before you go molest the guy wearing a dress.
In pathfinder, it makes sense for a tank to do high, if not the highest, amount of consistant damage, because otherwise they'd be attempted ignored very hard, unless you have other tools to stop the baddies approach. Like if you have a way to increase your threat zone and just punish the crap out of everything thinking they can ignore you.

WoW doesn't work that way, and it's getting to be a fundamental problem, however, as it is now, tanks should not do the dps of an actual dps class.

Tanks get damage-boost through artifacts and gear as well as dps does, so scaling is a so-so argument.
Tanks need an overhaul if you want a fun rotation that isn't reliant on doing damage.

[Tart]

This hasn't been true for years.

I know it's not true mate but it should be. Tanks shouldnt do much damage at all as we have other classes to do that.

[Raakel]

A flat 10% nerf to all tanking classes is almost like no nerf at all. It kind of nullifies as it changes nothing to the damage of the tanks relative to each other. Also it just forces even more tank shortage if they over nerf tank dps in future tuning. Brewmaster and Blood already feel like a dps while tanking and I'm fine with that. Only problem would be PVP but it can be tuned via templates....

[cFortyfive]

The term balance is not an argument, it's you not explaining why it's an issue. We already know Blizzard can and will lock certain roles to a fixed number.

Sure sure balance isn't an argument but your roleplayer immersion certainly is. Don't need much more of an argument to make other than tanks already being vastly overpowered on any solo content and if it it were up to you also in any kind of pvp content so check your butthurt ego maybe you'll actually stop being retarded.

[Maudib]

The elephant in the room is that tanks are DPS... with threat gen that kept aggro, and mindless tanking skills.

You could EASILY (and still can) take 4 tanks and a healer into dungeons and steamroll the place. Just pull everything.

Tanks should NEVER do more DPS than DPS classes.

25% to 50% sure.

But with that said.. BRING BACK threat... make it a thing. THAT'S what makes it rewarding to tank. Make DPS understand that there are times you DON'T go balls to the wall or you're gonna get one shot and teabagged by an add or the boss.

Dropping threat isn't a thing anymore.. "Oh noes! If I invis I miss a DPS CD... OH NOES!"

Tanks.. seriously going to complain they aren't doing as much DPS as DPS? Really?

[Maletalana]

Class balance is pretty horrible across the board in Legion.
Nerfing all tank damage by 10% is probably a mistake but I'm not sure Blizzard can handle all the stuff they need to fix in order to balance every class in this expantion.
It's like they have just given up.

or maybe legion has been out less than a month...

NO NO YOURE RIGHT BLIZZ PROB JUST GAVE UP

after less than a month

[Schizoide]

But with that said.. BRING BACK threat... make it a thing. THAT'S what makes it rewarding to tank. Make DPS understand that there are times you DON'T go balls to the wall or you're gonna get one shot and teabagged by an add or the boss.

No thanks. Managing threat as a DPS was negative gameplay. I want to use my abilities, not sit and autoattack half the time.

And that is really what happened, particularly if you happened to play a class without threat management like a warrior. You just autoattacked. It sucked.

Tanks should do DPS, just less than any DPS spec in all scenarios where they don't compromise mitigation, both single-target and AE. A solid 10% less sounds about right. That specifically does mean they should do less AE than Shadow and Feral, but Shadow and Feral AE should be buffed to be reasonable performers first.

[Revi]

No thanks. Managing threat as a DPS was negative gameplay. I want to use my abilities, not sit and autoattack half the time.

And that is really what happened, particularly if you happened to play a class without threat management like a warrior. You just autoattacked. It sucked.

Tanks should do DPS, just less than any DPS spec in all scenarios, both single-target and AE. A solid 10% less sounds about right. That specifically does mean they should do less AE than Shadow and Feral, but Shadow and Feral AE should be buffed to be reasonable performers first.

That's fine, but then they have to change something fundamental to give us something to do, something to improve at. When none of your buttons matter much for damage, threat or mitigation, it's going to feel incredibly unrewarding to play.

"stand there, press whatever, be bottom of every metric, and slightly re-position once in a while in some fights" is not a viable tank design.

You don't want tank to have their own metric (threat) to care about because is inconvenience you as dps. Then when they get damage to care about instead, that is not fair to you as a dps either. And when they get enough self-sustain to focus on that, that's wrong towards healers. I get that many people who don't tank just want a meat-bag to pull threat while not being inconvenienced or out-competed in any way, but that's just unrealistic if you want there to actually be enough people playing tanks.

[Schizoide]

You don't want tank to have their own metric (threat) to care about because is inconvenience you as dps. Then when they get damage to care about instead, that is not fair to you as a dps either. And when they get enough self-sustain to focus on that, that's wrong towards healers. I get that many people who don't tank just want a meat-bag to pull threat while not being inconvenienced or out-competed in any way, but that's just unrealistic if you want there to actually be enough people playing tanks.

The current tact is to make tanking extremely easy in the hopes that DPS will try it and succeed. But difficulty isn't why many people don't enjoy tanking; instead they want to coast along, not carry responsibility for their group's success.

Anyway, your criticism is spot-on. That's why I posted earlier that tanks should get defensive/offensive stances back, with stance-specific abilities and longish cooldowns on stance-switching. This allows players to choose between using offensive stance on easy content (and deal a ton more damage) or defensive stance on progression when they have a chance of dying.

[Sorshen]

I know it's not true mate but it should be. Tanks shouldnt do much damage at all as we have other classes to do that.

That's a pretty weak argument.

[holynorth]

That's fine, but then they have to change something fundamental to give us something to do, something to improve at. When none of your buttons matter much for damage, threat or mitigation, it's going to feel incredibly unrewarding to play.

"stand there, press whatever, be bottom of every metric, and slightly re-position once in a while in some fights" is not a viable tank design.

You don't want tank to have their own metric (threat) to care about because is inconvenience you as dps. Then when they get damage to care about instead, that is not fair to you as a dps either. And when they get enough self-sustain to focus on that, that's wrong towards healers. I get that many people who don't tank just want a meat-bag to pull threat while not being inconvenienced or out-competed in any way, but that's just unrealistic if you want there to actually be enough people playing tanks.

This is the truth of it all.

You want to have fun but so do I. It seems you don't want tanks to be enjoying themselves.

[cFortyfive]

That's fine, but then they have to change something fundamental to give us something to do, something to improve at. When none of your buttons matter much for damage

Why do your buttons matter less just because your overall contribution is lower ?

It seems you don't want tanks to be enjoying themselves.

Your idea of fun is being flat out the most powerful specs in the game. Multiplayer games usually don't work that way.

[ShiyoKozuki]

Tanks are there to keep threat and not for damage ffs.

This isn't TBC, keeping threat is not a mechanic in the game.

[Holtzmann]

This isn't TBC, keeping threat is not a mechanic in the game.

It was all the way up to Wrath of the Lich King. When they made it so threat was irrelevant, I stopped tanking. I actually liked having to work for my threat. Going in as a Protection Warrior in Pit of Saron with 3 trigger-happy Ret Paladins as the DPS made for a fun 15 minutes. :P

[Deleted]

Your idea of fun is being flat out the most powerful specs in the game.

And that is simply not true, no matter how often you shout it out.