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  1. #221
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfTwo View Post

    Yes it's a legendary you receive for collecting fatty bear livers.... or saving corn from maggots.... definetly earning it's rarity there buddy

    Again the issue people are having is that _SOME_ of these Legendaries are a 15-20% dps boost and in a guild that has MORE members than it needs to fill a 20 man roster (as most serious guilds do) your raid spot can very well be decided on wether or not the snot worm over there decided to cough up an orange. Assuming same class, same skill, limited spots, you prefer -20% dmg or +20% dmg?
    still, better than having EVERY single player carrying a legendary out there
    Last edited by Drpizka; 2016-09-19 at 10:45 AM.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supercool View Post
    Yes, I prefer the system where the most-progressed people completed their legendaries first vs. the one where they fall out of a box for some players minutes after dinging 110. I also have no problem with people who don't play the game for several months having to do a bit of catch-up to people who were actually subbed the whole time, particularly as MoP and WoD both had accelerated catch-up mechanics (though WoD did fail to institute one for the final Tome collection stage).
    Yeah, I bet you despised the TBC attunements too. I can only really scratch my head at the irony here.
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  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashkiman View Post
    Yeah if your average ilvl was like 10-20 lower than the other person or had a much lower ilvl artifact, maybe you couldn't outdps the guy at all. But if you're a better player, you can outdps a weaker player. That's been the case every expansion a little buff to one of your abilities can't change that.
    So if you use gear to compare your performance with other players, the problem is you, not your gear.
    I'm talking about the case of two equal players (class imbalance aside). Let's say one has 845 and another has 845 ilvl, they do Mythics, they do world quests. Equal players. One of them gets Legendary by RNG dice roll, another doesn't. Suddenly, a player with Legendary becomes WAY stronger than his friend, and player without the Legendary, despite always keeping up and doing great, can't do anything about it. Can't improve himself to be on par.

    To clarify, it's nothing groundbreaking, it's just a frustrating part of a really fantastic expansion. It most likely won't destroy Mythic Raid Progression Race (tm). It won't affect most players progression within raids or Mythic + too much. It's just an annoying design choice they went with for Legendaries.

  4. #224
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    I'm talking about the case of two equal players (class imbalance aside). Let's say one has 845 and another has 845 ilvl, they do Mythics, they do world quests. Equal players. One of them gets Legendary by RNG dice roll, another doesn't. Suddenly, a player with Legendary becomes WAY stronger than his friend, and player without the Legendary, despite always keeping up and doing great, can't do anything about it. Can't improve himself to be on par.

    To clarify, it's nothing groundbreaking, it's just a frustrating part of a really fantastic expansion. It most likely won't destroy Mythic Raid Progression Race (tm). It won't affect most players progression within raids or Mythic + too much. It's just an annoying design choice they went with for Legendaries.
    I don't get it. Why must all players be equal? Why one shouldn't be allowed to be better? Even if his power came from luck, it doesn't matter.

    What's the perpose of having every single character carrying a legendary? It's losing its significance like this.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    I'm talking about the case of two equal players (class imbalance aside). Let's say one has 845 and another has 845 ilvl, they do Mythics, they do world quests. Equal players. One of them gets Legendary by RNG dice roll, another doesn't. Suddenly, a player with Legendary becomes WAY stronger than his friend, and player without the Legendary, despite always keeping up and doing great, can't do anything about it. Can't improve himself to be on par.

    To clarify, it's nothing groundbreaking, it's just a frustrating part of a really fantastic expansion. It most likely won't destroy Mythic Raid Progression Race (tm). It won't affect most players progression within raids or Mythic + too much. It's just an annoying design choice they went with for Legendaries.
    so youre specifically saying

    odds are it wont actually happen or do anything

    but it could happen and thats why its ok to have 10 threads on it on front page at any given time?

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    I don't get it. Why must all players be equal? Why one shouldn't be allowed to be better? Even if his power came from luck, it doesn't matter.

    What's the perpose of having every single character carrying a legendary? It's losing its significance like this.
    Because, at least in my opinion, the other player is unable to catch up without prayer to RNG gods. He is basically stuck at the level he is at, he went from "equal" to "worse by large amount" and there is no way of telling when he will be able to catch up.

    What's the perpose of having every single character carrying a legendary? It's losing its significance like this.
    That's the key. That's everything that is wrong with the system in a nutshell here.

    Legendaries ARE supposed to be super rare, indeed. But, at least in my eyes, they should be rare because they are difficult to obtain, not tied only to someones luck. That's what makes them Legendary, that's what keeps what I talked about - the feeling of envy a player feels when he sees his equal with such an item, which makes him try his best, and do harder content just to get said Legendary. There were many incarnations of this system, but from Vanilla till MoP it always meant one thing - you have to really prove youself a capable player, and spend a lot of effort to gain one. A player looks awesome with Shadowmourne? I gonna do my best in guild raids, make sure we clear a lot, prove myself to the guild as a person who should get it next time. There is always a way to reach the goal.

    That's why current system is bad. When gaining a Legendary is just by a chance, there is no such envy, no such desire, just annoyance that, well, RNG gods decided that you are supposed to be the worse player for the time being. Nothing you can do about it.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Revak View Post
    We have around 30 active in my guild at the moment (way down from numbers pre-WoD). Currently out of the 30 active I believe only a couple haven't hit 110 yet on any toon. And about 1/3 have either 2 or 3 110s.

    We have zero legendaries in our guild so far.


    I'm a firm believer in the "theory" that some peoples accounts are flagged for high drops and some aren't. I have a friend who quit at WoD (who didn't play vanilla but we bought TBC for him to get started). He got everything all the time. Never failed to get a drop. If he were playing I bet he'd be one of those with 2 legendaries already. I'm the one who never gets world drops/rare drops while content is current for that drop. So I fully expect to not get a legendary drop this expansion. Not QQ'ing as I've accepted that's just the way Blizz works.
    yep! i have a friend that gets pretty much every old content mount that is farmable in a couple of runs ... myself still trying for HH mount and ICC farming /sigh.
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  8. #228
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Because, at least in my opinion, the other player is unable to catch up without prayer to RNG gods. He is basically stuck at the level he is at, he went from "equal" to "worse by large amount" and there is no way of telling when he will be able to catch up.


    So? You didn't answer me to "why all players should be equal"?

    How many scarab lords exist?

    According to your thought, even warforged items bring imbalance, because of the low chance they have to drop

  9. #229
    And here I think the legendary drop rates are too high. Still don't have any, not going to break my back trying to farm for one. Eventually I will get one as I'm clearing mythics each week and doing my caches.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Because, at least in my opinion, the other player is unable to catch up without prayer to RNG gods. He is basically stuck at the level he is at, he went from "equal" to "worse by large amount" and there is no way of telling when he will be able to catch up.



    That's the key. That's everything that is wrong with the system in a nutshell here.

    Legendaries ARE supposed to be super rare, indeed. But, at least in my eyes, they should be rare because they are difficult to obtain, not tied only to someones luck. That's what makes them Legendary, that's what keeps what I talked about - the feeling of envy a player feels when he sees his equal with such an item, which makes him try his best, and do harder content just to get said Legendary. There were many incarnations of this system, but from Vanilla till MoP it always meant one thing - you have to really prove youself a capable player, and spend a lot of effort to gain one. A player looks awesome with Shadowmourne? I gonna do my best in guild raids, make sure we clear a lot, prove myself to the guild as a person who should get it next time. There is always a way to reach the goal.

    That's why current system is bad. When gaining a Legendary is just by a chance, there is no such envy, no such desire, just annoyance that, well, RNG gods decided that you are supposed to be the worse player for the time being. Nothing you can do about it.
    so because legendaries are common, thats why you can complain that you dont have one while others do

    if legendaries were like shadowmourne, where only 1 in 100 people had them, instead of the 1 in 50 that have one now, then it would be ok that legendaries give others a 50% damage boost, but not you

    you wouldnt complain then

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    So? You didn't answer me to "why all players should be equal"?

    How many scarab lords exist?

    According to your thought, even warforged items bring imbalance, because of the low chance they have to drop
    They do bring imbalance and you can see mythic raiders lamenting the existance of WF on forums, podcasts, twitter etc ... but we're stuck with it, as i suspect we'll be stuck with "legendaries" now.

    And is to "why all players should be equal" it's because for alot of us the goal of playing the game is progression (with a fun group of people granted). When players ARN'T inherantly equal and our power level is determined by factors outside of our controll, it pisses us off. Yes it's a game but it's the equivalent of a CO going "ok time to spin the promotion wheel aaaand.... CONGRATULATIONS Lou the one armed 70yold janitor is your new VP"

    Scarab Lords, and Invicibles and CM cosmetics or whatever else have you of that hard to obtain stuff does NOT impact your characters power, it's fine for those to be random / difficult to obtain.

  12. #232
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    So? You didn't answer me to "why all players should be equal"?

    How many scarab lords exist?

    According to your thought, even warforged items bring imbalance, because of the low chance they have to drop
    What's with the terrible comparison? Scarab Lord wasn't a random thing - it was a result of significant guild effort, which rewarded a person specifically chosen by a group. There was no "we put in all that work and some random guy from the opposite faction got the title".

  13. #233
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerOfTwo View Post
    They do bring imbalance and you can see mythic raiders lamenting the existance of WF on forums, podcasts, twitter etc ... but we're stuck with it, as i suspect we'll be stuck with "legendaries" now.

    And is to "why all players should be equal" it's because for alot of us the goal of playing the game is progression (with a fun group of people granted). When players ARN'T inherantly equal and our power level is determined by factors outside of our controll, it pisses us off. Yes it's a game but it's the equivalent of a CO going "ok time to spin the promotion wheel aaaand.... CONGRATULATIONS Lou the one armed 70yold janitor is your new VP"

    Scarab Lords, and Invicibles and CM cosmetics or whatever else have you of that hard to obtain stuff does NOT impact your characters power, it's fine for those to be random / difficult to obtain.
    But the vast majority of the player base, including me, give no damn about mythic raiders.

    If your team needs equality, you can arrange it by yourselves to stop using WF. For the 99.9% of the rest of the player base, we love RNGs and epic WFs from HC dungeons and all that shit.

    Get used to it, or change genre / game. MMO-RPGs are a mirror of society; there's no true equality out there, and there should be none in a game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    What's with the terrible comparison? Scarab Lord wasn't a random thing - it was a result of significant guild effort, which rewarded a person specifically chosen by a group. There was no "we put in all that work and some random guy from the opposite faction got the title".
    While the "2 friends, 1 legendary" example , was a better comparison ?

  14. #234
    Over 9000! Poppincaps's Avatar
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    Blizzard seems to be going more towards luck and RNG being a bigger factor in success than skill. It's annoying to be honest.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    What's with the terrible comparison? Scarab Lord wasn't a random thing - it was a result of significant guild effort, which rewarded a person specifically chosen by a group. There was no "we put in all that work and some random guy from the opposite faction got the title".
    you clearly werent there for scarab lord.

    i literally watched an entire guild prepping to hand it in, when someone on the opposite faction who server transferred in clicked it first.

  16. #236
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poppincaps View Post
    Blizzard seems to be going more towards luck and RNG being a bigger factor in success than skill. It's annoying to be honest.
    Yo, enter LFR, pew pew bosses, loot legendary items, much skill, so wow

  17. #237
    LOW the way a legendary drop rate is supposed to be.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wenoxar View Post
    This is NOT QQ thread. Let's just summarize up some facts, buds.

    It's been three weeks into the expansion. I'm completely sure not even 20% active players got their legendaries yet, if not 10% or less.

    Out of 70~ active people in our guild (who did all mythics every reset, keep doing few or more than few RHCs daily, did all emissary caches) only three people got legendary. It's not any reliable to measure probability with such small amount of people, but it's still fact that only goddamn 3 people got legendary.

    Some guilds got 15 legendaries out of like 150 active people, etc. Let's put aside (forget and move on) about the bug with increased droprate if you have already droppred your first legendary, though.

    There is a system that prevents you from not dropping legendary if you keep playing, the probability probably (just assuming) stacks with both attempts and time and resets after you drop legendary then the process starts over.

    The point is... unless legendaries will out of sudden start to rain from the sky, there is goddamn high chance that you end up without your dream Best-in-Slot legendary for the whole expansion, even though you play very actively. At least this is how things look like 3 weeks after the expansion.

    Thoughts? Any constructive opinions really appreciated.

    Also, I'm a prophet so I'll quote some posts that people will post:



    Yeah, RNG = RNG but also Probability = Probability and the Probability seems to be goddamn low.
    This is a 100% QQ thread and it started with your first "that only goddamn 3 people got legendary". Stop the QQ and play the game

  19. #239
    My guild has 3 active members and we have zero legendaries. This 0% rate is absolutely fucking bullshit. /endsarcasm

    It's a legendary... why do you fucking thing you are entitled you goofy fuck.
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  20. #240
    Without a repeatable, non-gated grind, the legendaries were guaranteed to cause an imbalance.
    Every time I turn around, there is something Blizzard is doing to make people resentful.

    And Legion had SO much promise.

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