Payday loans

[Deleted]

Not trying to defend fools. But...the financial education in America is pretty much non existent. I'm pretty sure the person who educated you was not your teacher in class.

One benefit some folks have is having knowledgable family and friends who set them up for success.

I was actually taught it in school but I hail from the U.K so our education systems differ to say the least.

I guess I'm just amazed at how people can be so disconnected from reality, I've seen people stubborn with entitlement right up to the point where their lovely 50" TV is collected to settle debts; Then the tears come out and excuses of "I didn't know shit, fuck my bank "

[Asiwassaying]

I was actually taught it in school but I hail from the U.K so our education systems differ to say the least.

I guess I'm just amazed at how people can be so disconnected from reality, I've seen people stubborn with entitlement right up to the point where their lovely 50" TV is collected to settle debts; Then the tears come out and excuses of "I didn't know shit, fuck my bank "

Look I get it. But even in your scenario, if a person wasn't educated on finances that is still an issue. Berating them won't stop the next 19 year old from making that mistake.

If they were educated like you, this would happen far less. Isn't that a better idea than being all high and mighty and making fun of them?

[Deleted]

Look I get it. But even in your scenario, if a person wasn't educated on finances that is still an issue. Berating them won't stop the next 19 year old from making that mistake.

If they were educated like you, this would happen far less. Isn't that a better idea than being all high and mighty and making fun of them?

Pointing out flaws in peoples logic when using financial tools is being high and mighty...

My personal tangent in the prior post was something I experienced in real life hence the mention, I didn't use a broad brush and apply it to all those who are in financial trouble.

But I guess it's a sore subject for some.

[Asiwassaying]

Pointing out flaws in peoples logic when using financial tools is being high and mighty...

My personal tangent in the prior post was something I experienced in real life hence the mention, I didn't use a broad brush and apply it to all those who are in financial trouble.

But I guess it's a sore subject for some.

What you are doing is ignoring the fact that you had to be educated on the matter and it was significant enough for you to mention.
But you ignore the fact that the people doing these mistakes are usually ignorant of finances.


It's like if you were taught about how to properly use a condom and managed to stay childless. But then you start bashing someone else who used it incorrectly and had a kid. All the while ignoring the fact that no one ever explained to them how to use one like they did you.


It kinda makes you look like an entitled ass.


And it is a sore subject for some. It sucks when entitled people look down on you and expect you to be as successful as them without any of the help that they themselves received.

[TirielWoW]

And it is a sore subject for some. It sucks when entitled people look down on you and expect you to be as successful as them without any of the help that they themselves received.

The education is available. The problem is, most people don't know where to find it, or that they need it.

[Deleted]

I agree that this type of thing should be illegal. Personally I know no one who uses them.

I don't see why it should, both parties agree on the terms. And if you are dumb enough to do this you deserve to screwed over.

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The education is available. The problem is, most people don't know where to find it, or that they need it.

Depending on where you live education is so expensive it's criminal, the US being a good example. Without going over the top, an education for the same degree can cost as much from 5 to 10 times what it costs in Belgium and that degree gets you less in said respected field.

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Pointing out flaws in peoples logic when using financial tools is being high and mighty...

My personal tangent in the prior post was something I experienced in real life hence the mention, I didn't use a broad brush and apply it to all those who are in financial trouble.

But I guess it's a sore subject for some.

I notice that a lot of people around my age (24) aren't the best at making choices when it comes to money. They work part-time, get tattoos, go out 2-4 times a week to a pub, go to 4 festivals a year, buy a new phone when not needed, get a car that's over their budget, go on vacations 2 times or more a year...etc...

See I get if you wanna live while you are young, I know I enjoy my youth a tad less than some who do all these things in the same year...but never in my life will I blame others for choices I made while all these people literally do nothing but bitch about not having money. You wanna spend all your money? More power to them, but don't complain afterwards.

And yes I blame parenting parially (mostly) when it comes to not teaching children how to be responsible when it comes to money. This bullshit parenting tactic to let their children feel the burns and learn it the hard way is not constructive when they are putting a burden on the entire community to help their little shits out.

[Hooked]

If you need a payday loan then you need to manage your money better. You need to stop squandering money and make a goal to save at least 10% per week. Save it and put it aside, never touch it.

[Tyrianth]

I don't see why it should, both parties agree on the terms. And if you are dumb enough to do this you deserve to screwed over.

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Because they specifically target those who are in poverty and is designed to trapped them. Doing something out of desperation is not dumb, it's making sure you can afford to pay your bills and buy your food.

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If you need a payday loan then you need to manage your money better. You need to stop squandering money and make a goal to save at least 10% per week. Save it and put it aside, never touch it.

I'm glad you know the financial situation of everyone who has ever gotten trapped by payday loans.

[Spectral]

And it is a sore subject for some. It sucks when entitled people look down on you and expect you to be as successful as them without any of the help that they themselves received.

I'm not seeing how @Manakin is "entitled" in this scenario. What are you saying he feels entitled to?

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I don't see why it should, both parties agree on the terms. And if you are dumb enough to do this you deserve to screwed over.

While I don't have a strong position on what is the correct policy, I'm confused by why so many people in the thread feel so spiteful towards those that don't understand finances. People don't "deserve to get screwed over" because of a lack of understanding of how finance works.

Depending on where you live education is so expensive it's criminal, the US being a good example. Without going over the top, an education for the same degree can cost as much from 5 to 10 times what it costs in Belgium and that degree gets you less in said respected field.

Without diving into the college claim (I've addressed this plenty of times, American universities have tons of scholarships and financial aid and are substantially superior to international competitors) it doesn't really matter to the core point here - primary and secondary education are free in the United States and everyone has access to the internet. Going to college for engineering isn't going to change someone's financial education in some meaningful way - college just isn't relevant to the conversation.

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If you need a payday loan then you need to manage your money better. You need to stop squandering money and make a goal to save at least 10% per week. Save it and put it aside, never touch it.

I'm glad you know the financial situation of everyone who has ever gotten trapped by payday loans.

The statement @Hooked makes here is almost tautologically true. He doesn't need to know the exact situation of every single person to make the statement that if you're borrowing for an emergency on terrible terms, you have probably done a poor job managing money. There are some exceptions (medical bankruptcy comes to mind), but for the most part, borrowing from these sorts of institutions is a result of a lack of understanding and/or discipline.

[Phlegethon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDylgzybWAw

Here you go. John Oliver helps.

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What kind of individual would make a living doing such a thing?

ABout 80% of the US economy is based on just that. Exploiting the weak.

[Spectral]

ABout 80% of the US economy is based on just that. Exploiting the weak.

This seems like an improbable claim. Which sectors, exactly, are based on exploiting the weak? I guess if you really hate capitalism and see everything through an oppressor-oppressed axis, it could be damned near everything, but it's a ridiculous starting point.

[Tyrianth]

The statement @Hooked makes here is almost tautologically true. He doesn't need to know the exact situation of every single person to make the statement that if you're borrowing for an emergency on terrible terms, you have probably done a poor job managing money. There are some exceptions (medical bankruptcy comes to mind), but for the most part, borrowing from these sorts of institutions is a result of a lack of understanding and/or discipline.

Or a lack of a stable social security net that forces these people to get unfavourable loans, knowing that they are unfavourable, but required to keep their lights on or, as you said, medical bankruptcy (the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US). Though medical bankruptcy and social security net kinda goes hand in hand.

There are plenty of reasons why someone would use these other than lack of understanding or discipline, and to suggest that everyone who does use them "just needs to manage their money better" is extremely ignorant and naive thing to say while showing a complete lack of understanding of how the world actually works.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm glad you know the financial situation of everyone who has ever gotten trapped by payday loans.

He gives good advice, that people do need to set aside 5-10% of their money every month and not touch it save for unexpected doctor bills, auto repair bills, etc. "Rainy day fund". If you don't use ANY of it til you retire, that's fine. At some point you will want to start investing it though, but still have enough available as cash on hand that you can use it for an emergency.

The problem is that many of the people in the bottom 20-40% don't get that kind of advice. Ever. Not from parents, not from teachers, not from anyone in their lives. They aren't taught about the hazards of debt traps. These predatory lenders rely upon these people not being taught these things. Their very business model is predatory by nature. They will encourage their customers to take out another loan from another company or even different branch under a different name (same corporation) for $30 per $100 to pay off the loan they took out on time so they don't incur that $100 late fine, and it becomes a trap of never ending debt.

They might inform their customers about rates, they may even inform them about fines, but they never say "Look, we're basically charging you a MASSIVE fee to take out this $500 you need, and when it comes time to pay it back on your next payday, we know you won't have all the money, so we're going to either give you another loan with another massive fee to pay it back, or have you ping ponging between us and another company."

These people are not educated about the ultimate repercussions and end game of payday loans, and what a debt trap is. And scumbags defend this practice. Most of the time you'll see these scumbags saying stuff like "Well it's their choice, stop telling them how to live their life." They take for granted that they got an education on debt and loans, and how to shop around for a really low interest rate and fees if you REALLY need a loan badly, and they just feel that everyone has this education on money, and if they don't, well then they should have. They have no personal vested interest in seeing payday loans stay around, these are just the kinds of people who love talking down to others.

[Flarelaine]

The education is available. The problem is, most people don't know where to find it, or that they need it.

In fact, most people refuse it.

[Tyrianth]

He gives good advice, that people do need to set aside 5-10% of their money every month and not touch it save for unexpected doctor bills, auto repair bills, etc. "Rainy day fund". If you don't use ANY of it til you retire, that's fine. At some point you will want to start investing it though, but still have enough available as cash on hand that you can use it for an emergency.

The problem is that many of the people in the bottom 20-40% don't get that kind of advice. Ever. Not from parents, not from teachers, not from anyone in their lives. They aren't taught about the hazards of debt traps. These predatory lenders rely upon these people not being taught these things. Their very business model is predatory by nature. They will encourage their customers to take out another loan from another company or even different branch under a different name (same corporation) for $30 per $100 to pay off the loan they took out on time so they don't incur that $100 late fine, and it becomes a trap of never ending debt.

They might inform their customers about rates, they may even inform them about fines, but they never say "Look, we're basically charging you a MASSIVE fee to take out this $500 you need, and when it comes time to pay it back on your next payday, we know you won't have all the money, so we're going to either give you another loan with another massive fee to pay it back, or have you ping ponging between us and another company."

These people are not educated about the ultimate repercussions and end game of payday loans, and what a debt trap is. And scumbags defend this practice.

Sure it's good advice, but it's also not advice everyone can afford to follow. Telling someone to just set aside a "5-10%" a month is easy coming from someone who even has a bit of disposable income, but when near 100% of your income is going towards essentials then how do expect them to set aside any money? You're essentially telling them to pick between a savings account or food on their plate and electricity to power their homes.

[Sunseeker]

The education is available. The problem is, most people don't know where to find it, or that they need it.

So we need to tell people where to find it. Okay...there's still a matter of "people who know" needing to tell people who don't where to find it. In this context, we can still use "educating people" as a catch-all term for informing the uninformed. You can regress it ad infinitum from "we need to give them an education" to "we need to tell them where to find the information" to "we need to tell them who can tell them where to find the information" etc.... but the end result is still the same: the uneducated need to be educated on financial matters.

[Gamdwelf]

So we need to tell people where to find it. Okay...there's still a matter of "people who know" needing to tell people who don't where to find it. In this context, we can still use "educating people" as a catch-all term for informing the uninformed. You can regress it ad infinitum from "we need to give them an education" to "we need to tell them where to find the information" to "we need to tell them who can tell them where to find the information" etc.... but the end result is still the same: the uneducated need to be educated on financial matters.

How do you educate people who refuse it?

[Sunseeker]

How do you educate people who refuse it?

Oh right here we go, the poor aren't just poor and stupid, they're poor and stupid because they refuse to get educated! Education that let me guess, costs money they don't have, that they can get with loans they can't be approved for that they should have thought ahead and gotten credit cards for.

Why are you responding to me?

[the game]

Oh right here we go, the poor aren't just poor and stupid, they're poor and stupid because they refuse to get educated! Education that let me guess, costs money they don't have, that they can get with loans they can't be approved for that they should have thought ahead and gotten credit cards for.

Why are you responding to me?

I mean the excuse has already been given in this thread that they refuse to read the contract they sign at payday loan places because the guy behind the counter told them the interest rate and they took their word for it.

[Sunseeker]

I mean the excuse has already been given in this thread that they refuse to read the contract they sign at payday loan places because the guy behind the counter told them the interest rate and they took their word for it.

Lying about the interest rate would make the contract void. That's basic contract law. Not understanding how interest works is one thing, but if you and I were to sign a contract and you tell me, at any point, that the interest rate is 10% and the actual rate in the contract is 30%, that would void the contract. You may be able to bend the truth about contracts, but you can't outright tell falsehoods. If you could, our entire legal system would be void.