Derrick Rose rape accusations raise issues of consent

[Tennis]

ITT: Tennisace actually suggesting marriage as a solution to clarify consent, implying that rapes during marriage cannot exist.

SeemsGood

If you look at the news you would see almost all of these rape cases are with out of wedlock sexual encounters. Not a coincidence.

[Canpinter]

If you look at the news you would see almost all of these rape cases are with out of wedlock sexual encounters. Not a coincidence.

still waiting for that citation on the vast majority of rapists being male?

[Tennis]

These ones, actually a lot of women do find pretty sexy, if you say it with the right tone of voice. I'd suggest "may" instead of "can", but you're on the right track here.

If you can't whisper softly in a woman's ear, asking her if she wants to feel you inside her, and make it hot, then you're doing sex and foreplay so very wrong. Asking for consent isn't robotic if you do it right, it makes the entire thing way more hot, building the anticipation, the excitement. If you can't make it hot, you need to rethink whether you're ready for sex.

The only thing that can be surmised is that many of those who are complaining have never been intimate with a woman. To think that the only way to talk in close moments is like a robot...

[Raelbo]

Turns out by some of the 'definitions' of 'consent', that I have been raped numerous times.

Not really. The definition of consent is pretty simple. The issue though is that in order to help people to understand the definition, a lot of people attach guidelines to help to understand how to apply the definition to specific contexts. It's important to remember that any 'definition' therefore is specific to the context, and that if you change the context, so too can the definition.

In short, every single sexual encounter has to be considered on it's own circumstances when trying to figure out whether consent was real or not. You cannot just apply a bunch of rules and expect an accurate answer. It requires the application of a reasonable mind.

Rules are not there so that a would be rapist can tick a bunch of check boxes and then have sex with someone who doesn't actually want it. They are guidelines, examples to illustrate a fundamental set of principles, but the principles are far more important than the examples themselves.

Was out with friends and having a few drinks after work. <snip>

I'm fully erect so in my mind, I'm all in. We do the deed and she goes to the bathroom and I think, yeah time to go home. The next day I'm talking to my friends about the situation that took place last night and all they can do is congratulate me and talk about how "awesome" that was. Yeah. Awesome. Even my friends didn't see it as anything other than two drunken adults having sex.

The way you tell the story it seems like at the time you were fine with having the sex. I mean it may not be what you really wanted, but really, there was absolutely nothing she did that left you with no other options.

Why should anyone see it as anything other than two drunken adults having consensual sex?

I had a gf that got me hard while I was asleep and I woke up to her riding me. Now this is something her and I talked about a great deal, and we both agreed that it would be kind of hot to wake up to sex. This happened several times throughout our relationship. A few of those times I woke up with my genitals in her mouth. I also returned the favor to her several times as well.

Turns out by some of the 'definitions' of 'consent', that I have been raped numerous times. Who knew.

Which is exactly why, as I said earlier, any definition of consent has to be subject to the context. I can't see any reasonable person finding that consent was lacking in the scenario as you described it.

Factors that are significant:
1) You said that the two of you talked about it a great deal and that you had made an agreement.
2) Presumably these discussions were sufficiently recent that neither of you had forgotten about them.
3) There was no indication that either of you had had a change of heart.

Even though the situation with the random girl at the after bar could be considered rape by the definitions of consent in this thread

All one has to do to invalidate this assertion is to point to a single meaningful difference between the context in which the definition was made, and your specific context.

by these definitions of consent, it's still possible to rape a guy twice your weight and over a foot taller than you and that if you have a significant other that you wake up with sex, you are still raping her/him because they did not give you consent in that moment.

I agree that you have demonstrated how it is possible to rape a guy twice your weight etc by doing it to them while they are sleeping. But that does not mean that every instance of such sex = rape. The context you described gives a good example of how it can still be consensual.

Side note. Male or female. If you are worried about consent. Don't get drunk and go home with another guy/girl and regret it the next day and claim you were too drunk to give consent. I would advise you stop drinking if you can't make good decisions when you are drunk.

This is great advice. That being said, just because someone is stupid and does get drunk, doesn't give someone else the right to act without a conscience. If you're not at least 99% certain that someone wants to have sex with you, don't do it. The problem is when people see an opportunity to score even though they know the other party doesn't actually consent.

Odds are that most people who land up in trouble for taking advantage of someone while they are drunk probably knew (or least had a strong suspicion) that they were trying their luck, but decided to go ahead because they thought they could get away with it.

[Annesh]

Guys, you're arguing with Tennisace. You got what you deserved.

[Tennis]

There are a whole series of these, because the reality is any woman can end your life any moment for any or no reason. Especially if you actually had sex with them...

Ok so a whole series. Let's say 10.
10 out of 7.5 billion.

That works out to what?

<0.00000000000000000001% of all humans on the planet.

Isn't there more important things to focus on? You're missing the forest for the trees.

[THE Bigzoman]

[QUOTE=Sreliata;42398169]1.) I didn't say my opinion is the 'law' and nothing else can be right. I said it is my point of view. Not that there can be no other.
2.) There is a difference between Men and Boys. And I did not say men can not get raped. See: Anal

[Tennis]

Thus we see the fruits of sexual liberation and rampant feminism. Let's just outlaw sex completely and require state permission to copulate. That will remove any and all questions of rape or consensual.

The joys of marriage. If you're happily married with kids then you're not worried about some wack nutcase falsely accusing you.

[Swiftshadow]

i think that consent is so subjective that we could argue forever and not come up with a perfect solution.

Because well, it is sex. with women, and they are complicated sometimes.

The real concern here is what happens when they decide to change their mind about what "happened".

Because when that happens, they have a power. A power that can seriously punish us legally even if we didn't deserve it. And it's difficult to prove otherwise. Or at least troublesome.


That, to me is the real problem.

Imagine sex as a journey. The girl being naked (or at least naked enough for penetration to occur) is point A. The guy ejaculating is point B. At any interval between point A and B, the girl can say No anytime (or at least physically infer similarly, like closing her legs or something). However to say No "after the fact", has so much potential to be a fraudulent accusation that I feel that some legal laws should be in place to protect men.

A casual example is this. What if I walk into a restaurant and order the meal. After finishing (or consuming part of) the meal i suddenly decide that hey, I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. Does that excuse me from not having to pay for the meal?

Of course it doesn't.

[Guyv3r]

I find it funny that, in highschool, i was the weird one for actually asking girls on dates/sex and never actually got any.

After i learned that no one else asked, i stopped asking and started reading their body language, success happened. And what do you know? no rape accusations :O

Could also be because i don't live in the US.