illidan

[Aucald]

It doesn't matter because that was pretty much Kil'jaedens plan.

Yes, and that was what I was talking about in my original post. The Alliance and Horde would've saw Illidan as your standard villain because they wouldn't have been aware of the decaying state of Kael'thas' loyalty and a variety of other factors that would've changed their view of Illidan (such as the fact that he saved their combined forces in Hellfire Peninsula).

[Deleted]

The Blood Elves Sunfury not directly under Illidan were following Kael'thas and thus the Legion.

So those Hellfire Giants and those Mana bombs. Yeeeeaaa

When you look at "akamas" Enslavement when everything is known and what was at stake. Fuck Akama.

Illidan was fighting he legion and a cosmic war and Akama was just interested in Illidan leaving the temple. Akama is a fuckwit and caused untold destruction by betraying Illidan.

It's like you lost your home planet went to another planet where you found a really nice place to live and then somebody comes and occupies your house saying that he will destroy those that took your planet from you but he needs to use your house for a couple of years and then you betray him just so you can take back your house, talking about the lowest IQ ever

[anaxie]

It's like you lost your home planet went to another planet where you found a really nice place to live and then somebody comes and occupies your house saying that he will destroy those that took your planet from you but he needs to use your house for a couple of years and then you betray him just so you can take back your house, talking about the lowest IQ ever

Thats pretty much what the demon hunter class stories are.

The TBC Demon hunter and Akama are fucking morons in hindsight.

What the player KNEW about Illidan before WoW was that Illidan always had a motive for his questionable actions. What we also knew was that Warden Shadowsong was a complete vindictive asshole.

[Bodsworth]

Either way, I think this expansion will end up with Illidan sacrificing himself for the greater good. Thereby resolving himself of all past sins and becoming a hero.

[Stormdash]

Basically, since the Legion couldn't get at Illidan effectively at the Black Temple at that time, they baited the forces of Azeroth to come through the Black Portal ostensibly to fight the Legion; upon arriving, the forces of Azeroth learn that Illidan is basically being a vicious oppressive bitch to all the pitiful and adorable things in Outland, so, being us, we're like "does he have purples? We're in!"

And since Illidan was so fixated on his one and only plan to think more than 2 steps ahead, he not only did nothing to communicate with the forces of Azeroth, he didn't even really react when we started wrecking all his shit, and so by the time he was ready to execute his plan, we were already killing Narjentus, etc.

[anaxie]

Either way, I think this expansion will end up with Illidan sacrificing himself for the greater good. Thereby resolving himself of all past sins and becoming a hero.

What does he have to absolve himself of?

Trying to defeat the greatest of evils his entire life when he wasn't chained up for people that didn't understand him?

Lets keep in mind how WC3 went

Malfurion ILL CHAIN YOU UP FOR 10,000 YEARS!
~Illidan Freede
Malfurion: YOU DESTROYED THE DEMON GENERAL BUT TOOK POWER TO DO IT BEGONE!
~Illidan I will raise an army and destroy the Lich king
Malfurion: BUT YOU ARE FRACTURING NORTHREND HOW DARE YOU MONSTER

Tyrande gets in trouble
~Illidan: I rescued Tyrande my brother
Malfurion OKAY BUT NEVER COME BACK TO AZEROTH AGAIN YOU ARE FREE

So Illidan left to outland. And we fucking followed him finger wagging at his actions the whole time.

[Stormdash]

Akama wasn't a fuckwit because, Akama wasn't privy to Illidan's plans. Illidan never once did anything a competent leader would do to inspire loyalty through difficult times. All Akama heard were a crazy man's ravings, and all he saw was a willingness to sacrifice Akama's people to fuel magic spells and desecrate his people's icons and landmarks as badly as Magtheridon did. Nor, for that matter, did he actually give Akama the "couple years" speech about Karabor, he said they'd reclaim it from the Legion and it would be restored. They reclaimed it. He didn't restore it. Illidan even has internal monologue in which it occurs to him that Akama probably could use some reassurance on this subject... and then never offers any. Illidan didn't really leave Akama any other options.

[anaxie]

Will she fuck him though and have his babies?

If we didn't murder all of Illidans concubines in his Harem in Black Temple I'm sure there would be some intriguing confessionals.

Concubine1 " Master Illidan made me wear a wig and a white gown."
Concubine2 " Yes he would also embrace and call us Tyrande before pounding away."

[Stormdash]

What does he have to absolve himself of?

Trying to defeat the greatest of evils his entire life when he wasn't chained up for people that didn't understand him?

Lets keep in mind how WC3 went

Malfurion ILL CHAIN YOU UP FOR 10,000 YEARS!
~Illidan Freede
Malfurion: YOU DESTROYED THE DEMON GENERAL BUT TOOK POWER TO DO IT BEGONE!
~Illidan I will raise an army and destroy the Lich king
Malfurion: BUT YOU ARE FRACTURING NORTHREND HOW DARE YOU MONSTER

Tyrande gets in trouble
~Illidan: I rescued Tyrande my brother
Malfurion OKAY BUT NEVER COME BACK TO AZEROTH AGAIN YOU ARE FREE

So Illidan left to outland. And we fucking followed him finger wagging at his actions the whole time.

Worth noting for two of those four feats of glory, he was someone else's patsy (Arthas'/Lich King's -> Tichondrius) or someone else's bitch (Kil'jaeden -> Lich King).

[anaxie]

Akama wasn't a fuckwit because, Akama wasn't privy to Illidan's plans. Illidan never once did anything a competent leader would do to inspire loyalty through difficult times. All Akama heard were a crazy man's ravings, and all he saw was a willingness to sacrifice Akama's people to fuel magic spells and desecrate his people's icons and landmarks as badly as Magtheridon did. Nor, for that matter, did he actually give Akama the "couple years" speech about Karabor, he said they'd reclaim it from the Legion and it would be restored. They reclaimed it. He didn't restore it. Illidan even has internal monologue in which it occurs to him that Akama probably could use some reassurance on this subject... and then never offers any. Illidan didn't really leave Akama any other options.

It was pretty hard to miss the Massive Legion VS Illidari war going on right in Shadowmoon Valley. Again Akama is a fuckwit.

- - - Updated - - -

Worth noting for two of those four feats of glory, he was someone else's patsy (Arthas'/Lich King's -> Tichondrius) or someone else's bitch (Kil'jaeden -> Lich King).

Illidan plays the long game.

Illidan is over 11,000 years old. the events of TFT - current are less than 20 years.

Confronted by lord of the Legion do you. defy him alone face to face? Or do you play the long game destroying an equal enemy while trying to build a power base?

Seemed to work considering Illidan deceived the deceiver

[Enthralled]

Illidan is over 11,000 years old. the events of TFT - current are less than 20 years.

Warcraft Encyclopedia timelines are out of date. Illidan, Malfurion and Tyrande are more like 10,070-10,050 years old. Elves go through childhood at roughly the same rate as humans, then at about age 18-20 enter a state of young adulthood that lasts roughly a hundred years. The War of the Ancients happened when the three of them were still extremely young -- Malf and Illidan were in their 30s, Tyrande her 20s (and Shandris Feathermoon a young teen, perhaps 12-13).

[anaxie]

11,000 was a guess.


So even better where the entire series of events from WC3- now is nothing to illidan.

[Enthralled]

11,000 was a guess.


So even better where the entire series of events from WC3- now is nothing to illidan.

Yep, as far as time is concerned. A lot of events were crammed into that space though!

[MatadorMedia]

Illidan is Chaotic Neutral. He does his own thing and that's fine, but when it starts negatively impacting everyone then he must be stopped. He and his people were overlords of Outland and as far as we knew, were working for the Burning Legion. We only just now learned that Illidan was trying to destroy the Legion from within.

I think it's highly likely that Gul'dan will resurrect Illidan because presumably Kil'Jaeden still doesn't know Illidan is against the Legion. But then the Naaru will give Illidan the powers of the Light in order to push back the Burning Legion.

[anaxie]

Yep, as far as time is concerned. A lot of events were crammed into that space though!

Or were they!

- - - Updated - - -

Illidan is Chaotic Neutral. He does his own thing and that's fine, but when it starts negatively impacting everyone then he must be stopped. He and his people were overlords of Outland and as far as we knew, were working for the Burning Legion. We only just now learned that Illidan was trying to destroy the Legion from within.

I think it's highly likely that Gul'dan will resurrect Illidan because presumably Kil'Jaeden still doesn't know Illidan is against the Legion. But then the Naaru will give Illidan the powers of the Light in order to push back the Burning Legion.

lol?

Kil'jaeden is well aware of what Illidan was doing. Considering he was at war with the Legion on Outland.

[Deleted]

His mindset was "the end justifies the means".
We didn't like his means.

If we are going to start considering Illidan a good guy; why not also consider Sargearas one? He is just trying to beat a greater evil at any cost.

[Enthralled]

Illidan is Chaotic Neutral. He does his own thing and that's fine, but when it starts negatively impacting everyone then he must be stopped. He and his people were overlords of Outland and as far as we knew, were working for the Burning Legion. We only just now learned that Illidan was trying to destroy the Legion from within.

Since his "own thing" is actually trying to destroy the Legion, I'd call him Chaotic Good rather than Chaotic Neutral, but that's a massive thread derailment that could really be its own thread. The end result is the same -- if it sowed enough chaos and began to negatively impact people on the outside who could not see or understand what he was really doing, he had to be stopped. And so he was.

- - - Updated - - -

His mindset was "the end justifies the means".
We didn't like his means.

If we are going to start considering Illidan a good guy; why not also consider Sargearas one? He is just trying to beat a greater evil at any cost.

Heh, was just considering D&D alignments.

Illidan would be some sort of Chaotic variation: I'd say Chaotic Good, the person above me thought Chaotic Neutral.

Sargeras is certainly Lawful Evil.

They are really nothing alike no matter how much some people want to stretch it to be so.

[anaxie]

His mindset was "the end justifies the means".
We didn't like his means.

If we are going to start considering Illidan a good guy; why not also consider Sargearas one? He is just trying to beat a greater evil at any cost.

Illidans Solution doesn't mean kill Azeroth first.

[Deleted]

Illidans Solution doesn't mean kill Azeroth first.

From all we know his greater evil is also that much smaller.
Or are you gonna say you are looking at this from your character's standpoint?
In which case both of them are still bungholes.

Heh, was just considering D&D alignments.
Illidan would be some sort of Chaotic variation: I'd say Chaotic Good, the person above me thought Chaotic Neutral.
Sargeras is certainly Lawful Evil.
They are really nothing alike no matter how much some people want to stretch it to be so.

I'd go with chaotic neutral...
He wasn't that opposed to slavery and abuse after all...

[MatadorMedia]

Illidan would be some sort of Chaotic variation: I'd say Chaotic Good

WoW Wiki lists Illidan as Chaotic Neutral because he is self-serving. His wrongdoings and his good deeds are both incidental.