Undeath and the Void connection

[Deleted]

So, after Sylvanas saw herself being eternally tortured in the Void with Arthas and company, she doesn't wanna lose her connection to this world and her cursed life. Is it safe to assume that ALL undead, willing or not, will suffer the same fate? We often see ghosts, spirits and some undead express relief about being dispatched.

It would also seem like Death Knights, cursed and made into Death Knights against their will, would suffer the same fate.

I just don't like that idea. I thought Death was it's own domain, it's own thing that was all about the Shadowlands, not the Void. How does all this make sense? How does it really work?

It seems quite unfair that people who were turned against their will, would suffer at the hands of a completely different force. And that those raised in undeath or those using Necromancy, all go there as well. Not to the Shadowlands or more undeath, but to the Void. Has this been the reason why Liches use phylacteries? Because they don't wanna go to the worst place imaginable? It's just really boring that all along, the likes of the Lich King are just the Void Lords little bitches.

[Firefall]

Void=Shadow in WoW. There's light and then there's darkness. We've always known that Undead are closely connected to shadow, and that mindful Undead like the Forsaken are constantly fighting to keep their mindfulness. So it's ultimately nothing new, just disturbing how it fits in with the lore they're building up about the void.

[Aquamonkey]

Never says it's the Void, just that it is a void.

[Shostradamus]

Void=Shadow in WoW. There's light and then there's darkness. We've always known that Undead are closely connected to shadow, and that mindful Undead like the Forsaken are constantly fighting to keep their mindfulness. So it's ultimately nothing new, just disturbing how it fits in with the lore they're building up about the void.

I'm pretty sure the Chronicle lists the Shadowlands as its own thing, and not an extension of the Void.

[Darknessvamp]

To be frank, there seems to be three kinds of undeath in Warcraft lore. We got natural undeath where spirits with either unresolved matters or had a significant connection to a place come back as ghosts, we got the undeath caused by the original Cult of the Damned plagued grain and Slyvana's improved plague mixture which force's dead bodies to reanimate and then we have the undeath caused by necromantic magics which we know as of WoD had some connection to the void when Ner'zhul first started dabbling with it and involves forcing recently departed spirits back into their bodies and binding them to it. Now if there is a connection between the Necromancy performed by Arthas and his fellow Death Knights and Liches and the Void Lords that remains to be seen but that would be interesting considering the interaction between the Old Gods and their servants and the undead in Northrend pre and post Arthas becoming Lich King. Not to mention if that were the case it being ironic that the Legion tried controlling Ner'zhul's type of undead for their own plans but instead helped created a force on Azeroth that the void lords could potentially utilise.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure the Chronicle lists the Shadowlands as its own thing, and not an extension of the Void.

Yeah that's what annoys me. EVery other piece of lore contradicts it and connects Death and Undeath to the Void.

[Firefall]

I'm pretty sure the Chronicle lists the Shadowlands as its own thing, and not an extension of the Void.

Yes, the shadowlands are not the void (the place). But void (the "element") is another word for shadow, the opposite of light. Shadowlands is sometimes also used just as a generic word for the afterlife. It's probably where we are when we die in WoW.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Shadowlands

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Void

Yeah that's what annoys me. EVery other piece of lore contradicts it and connects Death and Undeath to the Void.

The void (the location) and the shadowlands are not the same place. Void (the element/force) is the same as shadow. Undeath is connected to the void as shadow magic can be used to make things undead.

[RedNight at MMOC]

The Void is separate from Undead, confirmed in the World of Warcraft Chronicle: Volume 1.

[Aucald]

The Shadowlands are a dark reflection of Azeroth (or the physical universe) that is aligned with Necromancy and Death and thus falls closer to Shadow, just as the Emerald Dream represents a primordial vision of a paradise-world that is aligned with Nature and Life and falls closer to the realm of the Light. The Void is a separate place or state of being from the Shadowlands, but I imagine it's only a proverbial hop, skip, and/or jump to find yourself there as you move downward on the wavelength of essence in the Warcraft universe.

[Deleted]

Yes, the shadowlands are not the void (the place). But void (the "element") is another word for shadow, the opposite of light. Shadowlands is sometimes also used just as a generic word for the afterlife. It's probably where we are when we die in WoW.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Shadowlands

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Void



The void (the location) and the shadowlands are not the same place. Void (the element/force) is the same as shadow. Undeath is connected to the void as shadow magic can be used to make things undead.

But why do people like Sylvanas go to the Void? Because the shadowlands ain't a place of torture and anguish where creatures torment you, it's just a shit place. Right?

[Qualia]

But why do people like Sylvanas go to the Void? Because the shadowlands ain't a place of torture and anguish where creatures torment you, it's just a shit place. Right?

It didn't say that Sylvanas went to the Void. She went to an area that was an infinite void, but it might or might not be the Void. There was at least a layer / area / part of Shadowlands that was just a black (seemingly) infinite void as well (as seen in our encounter with Ner'zhul at Edge of Reality or where we get the Void-touched egg) - after all, Shadowlands were called "the void" or "the Spirit Void" by others before. The shadowy copy of Azeroth might be just one of its layer. There are also hostile creatures in Shadowlands too - such as, but probably not limited to the Shadowy Tormentors in Realm of Shadows.

Personally, I think it's more likely that she went to Shadowlands given that Muffinus once said "Void isn't realm of the dead, nether is where demons go. Void is NOTHING. No demons, nothing.", or Chronicle stated that "Many believe that mortal souls are drawn into this dark place at the point of death, where they remain forever after", plus that the Val'kyr was able to navigate there and brought Sylvanas back. The only reason I'm not 100% sure was because Sylvanas died by jumping on a saronite spike - the blood of a heavily Void-related creature, maybe there are chances that'd have affected her death one way or another.

[Deleted]

It didn't say that Sylvanas went to the Void. She went to an area that was an infinite void, but it might or might not be the Void. There was at least a layer / area / part of Shadowlands that was just a black (seemingly) infinite void as well (as seen in our encounter with Ner'zhul at Edge of Reality or where we get the Void-touched egg) - after all, Shadowlands were called "the void" or "the Spirit Void" by others before. The shadowy copy of Azeroth might be just one of its layer. There are also hostile creatures in Shadowlands too - such as, but probably not limited to the Shadowy Tormentors in Realm of Shadows.

Personally, I think it's more likely that she went to Shadowlands given that Muffinus once said "Void isn't realm of the dead, nether is where demons go. Void is NOTHING. No demons, nothing.", or Chronicle stated that "Many believe that mortal souls are drawn into this dark place at the point of death, where they remain forever after", plus that the Val'kyr was able to navigate there and brought Sylvanas back. The only reason I'm not 100% sure was because Sylvanas died by jumping on a saronite spike - the blood of a heavily Void-related creature, maybe there are chances that'd have affected her death one way or another.

Perhaps the reason she was tormented, was because of all the things she had done and in death, she wouldn't be treated well by the spiritworld? Because it seems graphic how she saw souls in torment by dark beings.

Yeah perhaps being killed by void creatures or things related to them means your soul goes to them.

[Deleted]

It didn't say that Sylvanas went to the Void. She went to an area that was an infinite void, but it might or might not be the Void. There was at least a layer / area / part of Shadowlands that was just a black (seemingly) infinite void as well (as seen in our encounter with Ner'zhul at Edge of Reality or where we get the Void-touched egg) - after all, Shadowlands were called "the void" or "the Spirit Void" by others before. The shadowy copy of Azeroth might be just one of its layer. There are also hostile creatures in Shadowlands too - such as, but probably not limited to the Shadowy Tormentors in Realm of Shadows.

Personally, I think it's more likely that she went to Shadowlands given that Muffinus once said "Void isn't realm of the dead, nether is where demons go. Void is NOTHING. No demons, nothing.", or Chronicle stated that "Many believe that mortal souls are drawn into this dark place at the point of death, where they remain forever after", plus that the Val'kyr was able to navigate there and brought Sylvanas back. The only reason I'm not 100% sure was because Sylvanas died by jumping on a saronite spike - the blood of a heavily Void-related creature, maybe there are chances that'd have affected her death one way or another.

hmmm...that theory does not make any sense.

[Florena]

Perhaps the reason she was tormented, was because of all the things she had done and in death, she wouldn't be treated well by the spiritworld? Because it seems graphic how she saw souls in torment by dark beings.

Yeah perhaps being killed by void creatures or things related to them means your soul goes to them.

This. We see plenty of undead seeming to go on to pleasant afterlives when killed. Her and Arthas going there doesn't mean most or all undead do.

[Aquamonkey]

This. We see plenty of undead seeming to go on to pleasant afterlives when killed. Her and Arthas going there doesn't mean most or all undead do.

It also might be a function of how Arthas turned her into a banshee. Her soul was torn apart. Only in that "hell" was her soul made whole again.

[Deleted]

Is it possible that what Sylvanas saw was a teaser to how close the void Lords are to our reality? They may have even invaded the shadow lands, the only place we know they can barely exist in is our reality, these seperate realms may already be invaded and lost.

[TickTickTick]

Basically we've been a witness to so many possibilities after death that its hard to tell how an avarage Joe will end up. It all depends where/how/when you died.

[Sylreick]

Death and Void are neighbors. They share a border and are tied by that. They are separate, but it's like the edges are bleeding into one another, they're blurry.

Perhaps what Sylvanas saw was a vision of what's to come when the Void lords make their move, and she's fighting to remain around to do something about it.

[Deleted]

Is it possible that what Sylvanas saw was a teaser to how close the void Lords are to our reality? They may have even invaded the shadow lands, the only place we know they can barely exist in is our reality, these seperate realms may already be invaded and lost.

Yeah that might also be a possibility. Perhaps that's what Vol'jin saw, that Sylvanas would see that coming.

[Deleted]

i think there are some sources that say all undead go to the shadowlands/bad place for simply being undead, unless some other force intervenes. but not sure how canon those sources are post chronicle.

which is what always annoys me about the part where sylvanas gives newly raised forsaken the choice between unlife and death. like you just pulled those people from there not-shit afterlife and then doom them to hell no matter what. some choice.